Clash of the Grass-starters! - Page 3

View Poll Results: Who would win?

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  • Sceptile

    27 23.08%
  • Venusaur

    24 20.51%
  • Serperior

    29 24.79%
  • Torterra

    19 16.24%
  • Meganium

    18 15.38%
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Thread: Clash of the Grass-starters!

  1. #31
    I won't bite... much. SharKing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clash of the Grass-starters!

    Coil does raise three stats, and that's awesome, but those stats rise by one stage. With Swords Dance, Attack rises two stages, quickly sharpening Sceptile's X-Scissor.

    And if Jaroda can only hit it super-effectively with that wimpy Aerial Ace, well...

    My point: in a fight between the two starters, Sceptile edges out as the winner. (I do prefer Jaroda, but them's the facts.)
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  2. #32
    Registered User Articwolf10's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clash of the Grass-starters!

    Quote Originally Posted by SharKing319 View Post
    Coil does raise three stats, and that's awesome, but those stats rise by one stage. With Swords Dance, Attack rises two stages, quickly sharpening Sceptile's X-Scissor.

    And if Jaroda can only hit it super-effectively with that wimpy Aerial Ace, well...

    My point: in a fight between the two starters, Sceptile edges out as the winner. (I do prefer Jaroda, but them's the facts.)
    Yeah but Sceptile's Attack is 10 points lower then Jaroda's Defense that kinda gives Jaroda an edge as X-Scizor probibly won't one-shot Jaroda

    Sceptile is a better Special Sweeper then a Psyical one and he doesn't learn any special moves that are SE against Jaroda

    And if Coil raised them higher then 1 step it would be haxx SD gets away with it due to only raising one stat

  3. #33

    Default Re: Clash of the Grass-starters!

    Torterra has more moves, and is dual-typed. I would hope that Torterra would win in a battle.

  4. #34
    Formerly GTT Envoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clash of the Grass-starters!

    Like it or not, Venusaur's the one who wins in a battle here. STAB Sludge Bomb makes quick work of Meganium, Sceptile and Jaroda (and there's no Areal Ace that can OHKO it before it takes them down) and STAB Grass Knot 2HKO's Torterra. It's higher speed is the nail in that last one's coffin.
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  5. #35
    Registered User Articwolf10's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clash of the Grass-starters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Envoy View Post
    Like it or not, Venusaur's the one who wins in a battle here. STAB Sludge Bomb makes quick work of Meganium, Sceptile and Jaroda (and there's no Areal Ace that can OHKO it before it takes them down) and STAB Grass Knot 2HKO's Torterra. It's higher speed is the nail in that last one's coffin.
    Except that Venusaur is really slow Jaroda and Sceptile are faster Being the second slowest starter kills it Sceptile has better ATK and SATK plus X-scizor/Swords-Dance

    Jaroda has higher Def and his SDef is only 5 lower And Perversity Jaroda ->>> Venusuar when it comes to special attacks because of leaf-storm

    and Overgrow Jaroda can use coil to raise three stats one of which is defense. Vewnusuar is outclassed by all the starters except for Megianum and maybe Torrtera which is more useful as Venusaur is only good bulk

  6. #36
    Unregistered User Rakarei's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clash of the Grass-starters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Articwolf10 View Post
    Except that Venusaur is really slow Jaroda and Sceptile are faster Being the second slowest starter kills it Sceptile has better ATK and SATK plus X-scizor/Swords-Dance

    Jaroda has higher Def and his SDef is only 5 lower And Perversity Jaroda ->>> Venusuar when it comes to special attacks because of leaf-storm

    and Overgrow Jaroda can use coil to raise three stats one of which is defense. Vewnusuar is outclassed by all the starters except for Megianum and maybe Torrtera which is more useful as Venusaur is only good bulk
    Except Sceptile can't OHKO, or even 2HKO with X scissor. Venusaur can OHKO with sludge bomb almost all the time unless Sceptile runs absolute max hp and sp. def., and if it does that it can't do any damage to Venusaur. And even then it's still a OHKO about 75% of the time.

    And Jaroda also can't OHKO or 2HKO, and leaf storm means nothing because it does shit damage against something that 4X resists it. Venusaur can do massive damage to it with Sludge bomb.

    Torterra is 2HKO'd by Grass Knot, can't OHKO Venusaur, and has a lower speed. Venusaur wins again.

    Meganium is just shit.
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  7. #37
    Typhlosion! rbogey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clash of the Grass-starters!

    Torterra is my favorite starter from Sinnoh, partly because I've always loved the turtle Pokemon. Except Torkoal. I forget about him a lot. Venusaur is a close second.

  8. #38
    Something for nothing Cyber Jet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clash of the Grass-starters!

    MOTHER FUCKING Venusaur

    oh ya he can just sludge bomb them bitchs to death!

  9. #39
    Registered User Articwolf10's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clash of the Grass-starters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakarei View Post
    Except Sceptile can't OHKO, or even 2HKO with X scissor. Venusaur can OHKO with sludge bomb almost all the time unless Sceptile runs absolute max hp and sp. def., and if it does that it can't do any damage to Venusaur. And even then it's still a OHKO about 75% of the time.

    And Jaroda also can't OHKO or 2HKO, and leaf storm means nothing because it does shit damage against something that 4X resists it. Venusaur can do massive damage to it with Sludge bomb.

    Torterra is 2HKO'd by Grass Knot, can't OHKO Venusaur, and has a lower speed. Venusaur wins again.

    Meganium is just shit.

    I gues so but Venusuar is basicly useless besides that It's the second most unpopular Starter Charizard and Blastiose eclipse it in popularity

    And Jaroda and Sceptile are more useful competivly. Sceptile being a fantastic Special Sweeper and Jaroda being a good wall and Physical Sweeper with Coil which is perfect for him taking in consideration his excelent Defese stat and also raises his somehwta low Attack plus give his rest and Leech-Seed abd bada-boom a bonafied pain in the ass to fight

  10. #40
    Unregistered User Rakarei's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clash of the Grass-starters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Articwolf10 View Post
    I gues so but Venusuar is basicly useless besides that It's the second most unpopular Starter Charizard and Blastiose eclipse it in popularity

    And Jaroda and Sceptile are more useful competivly. Sceptile being a fantastic Special Sweeper and Jaroda being a good wall and Physical Sweeper with Coil which is perfect for him taking in consideration his excelent Defese stat and also raises his somehwta low Attack plus give his rest and Leech-Seed abd bada-boom a bonafied pain in the ass to fight
    Venusaur is the top UU pokemon, more popular than Sceptile and pretty much every other starter that's not Empoleon, Infernape, or Swampert.
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  11. #41
    Registered User Articwolf10's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clash of the Grass-starters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakarei View Post
    Venusaur is the top UU pokemon, more popular than Sceptile and pretty much every other starter that's not Empoleon, Infernape, or Swampert.
    then why does he barly beat Meganium in votes... he only beats her by one vote Jaroda and Sceptile on the other hand are way ahead and Torterra isn't far behind?

    Correction he has 7 votes now bu besides Meganium he's the lowest ranked on the poll

  12. #42
    Formerly GTT Envoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clash of the Grass-starters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Articwolf10 View Post
    then why does he barly beat Meganium in votes... he only beats her by one vote Jaroda and Sceptile on the other hand are way ahead and Torterra isn't far behind?

    Correction he has 7 votes now bu besides Meganium he's the lowest ranked on the poll
    You really don't know what you're talking about, do you? The poll is a sham. It doesn't tell us who the best Pokemon is, it tells us who the most popular Pokemon is. There's a difference. Not everything that's popular is good and not everything that's good is popular. To give you a pop culture example: Twilight is just about the most popular thing right now and it's pure shit. The television show Chuck, on the other hand, is known to exist by only a handful of people, yet it's critically acclaimed and has a devoted cult following.

    Back on topic:

    80 base speed is not bad, it's decent. There are plenty of good Pokemon out there with equal or lower speed than Venusaur that get by fine (Metagross, Tyranitar, Dragonite, Blaziken, Hippowdon, Dusknoir, need I continue?)

    You seem to be forgetting Venusaur has a delicious 100 Base Sp. Atk. The second highest of all Grass Starters (and Sceptile only beats it by four of five points) and a very decent 82 base Attack, the third highest of all Grass Starters, with access to (wait for it) STAB Power Whip (120BP, much better than Leaf Blade). This, along with access to powerful STAB moves like Leaf Storm and Sludge Bomb, as well as the universal Earthquake and Hidden Power, mean that Venusaur is an excellent physical sweeper, mixed sweeper and special sweeper (he gets Swords Dance too, y'know) who is not outclassed by Sceptile. The Hoenn starter may be faster and have (oh so slightly) better offensive stats, but Venusaur has a lot more bulk, better offensive typing (Grass/Poison hits every type in the game for at least neutral damage bar Steel and Poison), better defensive typing (less weaknesses) and a more powerful physical STAB.

    Here's the kicker: Sleep Powder. None of the other Grass Starters have this nifty little move. No matter how fast Sceptile is, he'll always be hard countered by Fire and Steel types (and Flying types, and Poison types, and other Grass types, and arguably Ice types). The same goes for Torterra and Meganium and Jaroda. Venusaur, on the other hand, is soft countered at best because if he sleeps the would-be counter on the switch, they become useless and Venusaur can proceed to slowly kill them with Sludge Bomb/EQ/HP, and if he can't he can safely bring in an ally to take care of that. NONE of the other Grass Starters can boast this ability. What's the best they've got? Grasswhistle? HA!!!!

    As for subseeding, you say Jaroda's better. This is not necessarily true. Sure, Jaroda has better Speed and Defense, but Venusaur has better bulk (more HP), Special defense, defensive typing, poison typing, access to Sludge Bomb and Special Attack. All these come together to make one deadly Leech Seed user. Do you know that only one Pokemon type is immune to Leech Seed? Do you know that that's other Grass types? Do you know that Sludge Bomb rapes Grass types in the face? Jaroda on the other hand can... what? Throw around resisted Leaf Storms at them. Oh yeah, we got a winner right there. Also, let's not forget our friend Sleep Powder, which can decimate the opposition by incapacitating them completely and letting Venusaur outstall the shit out of just about anyone. Again, only Steel types and Poison types can resist Venusaur. Whereas Grass types, Fire types, Bug types, Flying types, Poison types and Steel types take down Jaroda and Sceptile.

    And as I said before, Venusaur rapes the other Grass Starters in a battle. Meganium (who has a lot more bulk than Jaroda, not just because of it's better defenses but also because of it's higher HP stat) is 2HKO'd by Venusaur's Sludge Bomb. Sceptile and Jaroda are OHKO'd almost all the time. Their speed doesn't help them either because they can't touch Venusaur (Venu's not weak to X-Scissor and he quad-resists those pathetic Leaf Storms Jaroda throws, even after a +6 boost) and Torterra is outsped and 2HKO'd by Grass Knot.

    Oh, and Perversity's an amazing ability, but it sucks on Jaroda. Jaroda statistically has the lowest offensive stats (on both sides of the spectrum) of EVERY STARTER! So yeah, it can double it's Sp. Atk with Leaf Storm, big whoop. Attacks coming out of a crappy 65 offensive stat are going to suck against Pokemon that resist it, which in Jaroda's case is a whopping seven types. The ability would have been much better off going to Sceptile or, ironically, Venusaur.

    In conclusion, it's no surprise that Venusaur is at the top of UU right now and the fourth most popular starter in competitive play (behind Empoleon, Swampert and the monkey). It might go down to fifth soon (because of Blaziken), but five out of fifteen is still impressive. It is without a shadow of a doubt the best Grass type Starter out there. Currently, it places at #2 most used UU Pokemon, this means it's used a lot more than Sceptile, Torterra, Feraligatr, Blastoise, Blaziken, Meganium, Charizard and Typhlosion. Considering Jaroda is quite pathetic (Perversity is really the only thing it's got going for it), Emboar is pure crap and Daikenki fails to stand out in any way, shape or form, this will likely mean that Venusaur will still be the most popular Starter in UU in Gen V (Blaziken, I feel, will move up to OU). Not the most popular in the general fandom, granted, but definitely one of the best and outright the best Grass Starter.
    Last edited by Envoy; 29th September 2010 at 10:55 PM.
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  13. #43
    Not a Power Ranger Ranger Jack Walker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clash of the Grass-starters!

    Word of advice: DO NOT get this ranting. He WON'T stop anytime soon.

    And you what? He's right! Venusaur is the best Grass Type starter and will remain so atleast until Gen VI.

    I just prefer Sceptile because he's a fast sweeper and looks incredibly cool.

  14. #44
    Formerly GTT Envoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clash of the Grass-starters!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Jack Walker View Post
    Word of advice: DO NOT get this ranting. He WON'T stop anytime soon.

    And you what? He's right! Venusaur is the best Grass Type starter and will remain so atleast until Gen VI.

    I just prefer Sceptile because he's a fast sweeper and looks incredibly cool.
    Sorry, I guess I have a tendency of getting carried away, don't I? Lol.
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  15. #45
    Not a Power Ranger Ranger Jack Walker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Clash of the Grass-starters!

    What you said was all factual. It was all true. Not mindless ranting but fact based ranting.

    So,...
    No harm done. :)

    Sceptile would be the second most powerful grass type starter. He is quite viable in OU too. Smogon even has an OU analysis for it.

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