Charizard vs Blaziken - Page 7

View Poll Results: Which do you prefer?

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  • Charizard

    87 48.88%
  • Blaziken

    91 51.12%
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Thread: Charizard vs Blaziken

  1. #91
    Devil Lobster Man Ranger Jack Walker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Charizard vs Blaziken

    Quote Originally Posted by Saiga View Post
    Envoy, in every single one of your scenarios you assume the Blaziken player knows exactly what the Charizard player is going to use, so you're not really proving any point.
    Thats because Charizard, like Blaziken now, is way too easy to predict.

    In Blaziken's case however, you need to have a counter or all that prediction does't count for anything.

    Did some Damage Calcs.

    Lets assume that both players know what they are facing and have specially prepared their Pokemon for the battle.

    If we go with physical Charizard:

    EVs:
    Attack-252
    Speed-252

    Using Fly on:

    Defensive Blaziken HP-252
    Defense-252
    (Since I know I'm up against a Physical Charizard

    Damage taken: 77.5-91.2% Fails to OHKO. The same Blaziken does 196.6-231.6% damage. OHKO.

    Keep in mind thats Blaziken with 0 attack EVs.

    Special Charizard
    EVs:
    Sp.Attack-252
    Speed-252

    Uses Air Slash on:

    Special Defensive Blaziken
    Sp.Defense-252
    HP-252

    Damage taken: 74.6-90.7% Fails to OHKO. Blaziken OHKOs again with Stone Edge(196.6-231.6% damage).

    So an Offensive Charizard will always lose to a Defensive Blaziken.

    Lets reverse the situation and have Blaziken be Offensive and Charizard be Defensive.

    Once Blaziken inevitably outspeeds Charizard, it OHKOs with 151.1% - 178.9% damage.



    So yeah, Charizard's never gonna beat Blaziken if both players know what their up against.

    Since no self respcting Blaziken is gonna be Defensive and no Charizard worth its skin is gonna have Fly, the battle pretty much boils down to this:

    Blaziken used Protect!
    Charizard used Air Slash!
    Blaziken protected itself!
    Blaziken used Stone Edge!
    Its Super Effective!
    Charizard fainted!

    U mad bro?
    Last edited by Ranger Jack Walker; 19th October 2011 at 07:50 AM.

  2. #92
    Registered User Flying Christi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Charizard vs Blaziken

    Blaziken. I love Flying types, but I also like a poké that can use its legs really well, and I like Blaziken so much that it's been my only fire starter ever (I pick Grass-types every time)!

    Ranma ½, Maison Ikkoku and now TORADORA! fan.

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  3. #93
    Needed when stranded Flare's flash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Charizard vs Blaziken

    Carizard cause I can see Red's Carizard beating a R/S/E trainer right now.
    Also,some people forget that air slash can flinch.
    Oh and plus,there is always a way around a situation.I had my Superior beat a Emboar(both at full health).
    Carizard's never going to beat blasiken?Everyone needs to take in account of move accuracy.I've seen more pokemon miss or evade stone edge than they can hit.
    "The only thing impossible is impossiblity itself"-Unknown(I think Albert Einstien?)
    How about change moveset?
    Carizard can spam flys to avoid most of Blasikens attacks.
    Blasiken can only beat Charizard if it knows Potect/Stone Edge,or if its DW.
    I think Carizard can OHKO blasiken if it has sky attack and has power herb.
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  4. #94
    Registered User Lord Clowncrete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Charizard vs Blaziken

    Blaziken will always win in a one on one fight and I also don't like the (sometimes) aggressive Charizard fanbase who go around blaming smogon for Charizard's failure.

    However, I still voted for Charizard. Because, its one Pokemon which is close to my heart(thanks to nostalgia). I remember loving Charizard in my Pokemon Red and also loved Ash's Charizard a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
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  5. #95
    Registered User Saiga's Avatar
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    Default Re: Charizard vs Blaziken

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Jack Walker View Post
    Thats because Charizard, like Blaziken now, is way too easy to predict.

    In Blaziken's case however, you need to have a counter or all that prediction does't count for anything.

    Did some Damage Calcs.

    Lets assume that both players know what they are facing and have specially prepared their Pokemon for the battle.

    If we go with physical Charizard:

    EVs:
    Attack-252
    Speed-252

    Using Fly on:

    Defensive Blaziken HP-252
    Defense-252
    (Since I know I'm up against a Physical Charizard

    Damage taken: 77.5-91.2% Fails to OHKO. The same Blaziken does 196.6-231.6% damage. OHKO.

    Keep in mind thats Blaziken with 0 attack EVs.

    Special Charizard
    EVs:
    Sp.Attack-252
    Speed-252

    Uses Air Slash on:

    Special Defensive Blaziken
    Sp.Defense-252
    HP-252

    Damage taken: 74.6-90.7% Fails to OHKO. Blaziken OHKOs again with Stone Edge(196.6-231.6% damage).

    So an Offensive Charizard will always lose to a Defensive Blaziken.

    Lets reverse the situation and have Blaziken be Offensive and Charizard be Defensive.

    Once Blaziken inevitably outspeeds Charizard, it OHKOs with 151.1% - 178.9% damage.



    So yeah, Charizard's never gonna beat Blaziken if both players know what their up against.

    Since no self respcting Blaziken is gonna be Defensive and no Charizard worth its skin is gonna have Fly, the battle pretty much boils down to this:

    Blaziken used Protect!
    Charizard used Air Slash!
    Blaziken protected itself!
    Blaziken used Stone Edge!
    Its Super Effective!
    Charizard fainted!

    U mad bro?
    Not mad at all, because you backed it up with calculations. Thank you.

    P.S I had already voted for Blaziken anyway.

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  6. #96
    Exploded on Stage TFSpock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Charizard vs Blaziken

    I said on this thread:


    Quote Originally Posted by TFSpock View Post
    Blaziken, no matter how good you are, you're overrated.

    Typhlosion wins, if only for design and personal preference.
    .... however... Charizard is far more overrated than Blaziken will ever be. 'Zard's crawling in the depths of RU while KFC is livin' on the fast track taking down guys like Dialga and Darkrai.

    Blazie might be overrated, but at least he justifies his hype. Charizard..... not so much.

    BTW, tiebreaker FTW! ^3^
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  7. #97
    Devil Lobster Man Ranger Jack Walker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Charizard vs Blaziken

    Quote Originally Posted by Saiga View Post
    Not mad at all, because you backed it up with calculations. Thank you.

    P.S I had already voted for Blaziken anyway.
    Oh I wasn't addressing anyone really. Just something to end of that wall of text with. Oh and you can just delete your posts if they are duplicated accidently.

    Quote Originally Posted by TFSpock View Post
    I said on this thread:




    .... however... Charizard is far more overrated than Blaziken will ever be. 'Zard's crawling in the depths of RU while KFC is livin' on the fast track taking down guys like Dialga and Darkrai.

    Blazie might be overrated, but at least he justifies his hype. Charizard..... not so much.

    BTW, tiebreaker FTW! ^3^
    Just to add to that, Blaziken can't be overrated if its hype is justified. Rather, because its called overrated despite being that good, it shows that people are underestimating it and hence its underated instead of the opposite, as Envoy pointed out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flare's flash View Post
    Carizard cause I can see Red's Carizard beating a R/S/E trainer right now.
    Also,some people forget that air slash can flinch.
    Oh and plus,there is always a way around a situation.I had my Superior beat a Emboar(both at full health).
    Carizard's never going to beat blasiken?Everyone needs to take in account of move accuracy.I've seen more pokemon miss or evade stone edge than they can hit.
    "The only thing impossible is impossiblity itself"-Unknown(I think Albert Einstien?)
    How about change moveset?
    Carizard can spam flys to avoid most of Blasikens attacks.
    Blasiken can only beat Charizard if it knows Potect/Stone Edge,or if its DW.
    I think Carizard can OHKO blasiken if it has sky attack and has power herb.
    Move Accuracy you say? Both Fly and Air Slash can miss too. Your point?

    Sky Attack? I don't Charizard even learns that and even it did, its even worse than fly because it doesn't offer invulnerability on the first turn.

    Blasiken can only beat Charizard if it knows Potect/Stone Edge,or if its DW.
    Charizard can only beat Blaziken if it knows Earthquake and Blaziken doesn't have Protect. Your point?

    Thats a rather narrow range of specific conditions required for the wannabe Dragon to beat the kickboxing chicken don't you think?
    Last edited by Ranger Jack Walker; 20th October 2011 at 08:52 AM.

  8. #98
    Mama, we all go to hell. TheCapsFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Charizard vs Blaziken

    Broke the tiebreaker. I've used both and Blaziken has proven more useful in several situations. But having to capture it in Ranger is always a hassle ^^;

  9. #99
    Kung Fu Pancham! Rocky505's Avatar
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    Default Re: Charizard vs Blaziken

    Design wise goes to Blaziken but Charizard has the advantage whether people post up calculations or not. People are not going to use a 252 HP 252def/Spdef Blaziken at all.
    Saiga likes this.

  10. #100
    Team Flare Malva's Avatar
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    Default Re: Charizard vs Blaziken

    Blaziken is my alltime favorite starter, despite water being my favorite type. I love its design and it's such an awesome typing. Regardless of Charizard's type advantage, Blaziken is a diverse Pokemon and I'm sure a well trained one could pull off a win.

  11. #101
    Vile Insect. RaccoonGoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Charizard vs Blaziken

    Charizard has the obvious advantage over Blaziken. Just use a Flying Type move against Blaziken.

    Also, I just tied the vote. TeeHee.

  12. #102
    Devil Lobster Man Ranger Jack Walker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Charizard vs Blaziken

    Quote Originally Posted by RaccoonGoon View Post
    Charizard has the obvious advantage over Blaziken. Just use a Flying Type move against Blaziken.

    Also, I just tied the vote. TeeHee.
    Maybe you should read one my previous posts. As the Damage Calcs clearly point out, Charizard can never defeat Blaziken. Its not opinion, its fact. You can like Charizard more than Blaziken as much as you want but trying to justify your like for it by saying it beats Blaziken when evidence states the exact opposite isn't halping your case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky505 View Post
    Design wise goes to Blaziken but Charizard has the advantage whether people post up calculations or not. People are not going to use a 252 HP 252def/Spdef Blaziken at all.
    That was for the sake of pointing out that even the most defensive Charizard with max def/sp def and max HP charizard can't take a hit from Blaziken. Whereas an offense maxed out Charizard still fails to beat a max defense Blaziken and falls in 1 hit to the same Blaziken.

    As I already pointed out, nobody ever uses a defensive Charizard or a Defensive Blaziken so the battle boils down to this:

    Blaziken used Protect!
    Charizard used Air Slash!
    Blaziken protected itself!
    Blaziken used Stone Edge!
    Its Super Effective!
    Charizard fainted!

  13. #103
    Vile Insect. RaccoonGoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Charizard vs Blaziken

    @Ranger Jack Walker

    I never read the previous comments in these Contest Hall threads, so I didn't see you're previous comments. And I never wanted to "help my case", I was just commenting on the subject at hand. Calm down, bro. It's Pokemon.

  14. #104
    Formerly GTT Grass Type Warrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Charizard vs Blaziken

    Quote Originally Posted by RaccoonGoon View Post
    @Ranger Jack Walker

    I never read the previous comments in these Contest Hall threads, so I didn't see you're previous comments. And I never wanted to "help my case", I was just commenting on the subject at hand. Calm down, bro. It's Pokemon.
    Well, the point of the Contest Hall is to inspire healthy debate. You can't really blame Jack for doing just that.

    That said, I understand your point and I get that you just wanted to give your opinion.
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  15. #105
    Vile Insect. RaccoonGoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Charizard vs Blaziken

    I just don't see the point in debating about Pokemon. Sorry.

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