Thread: Blaziken vs. Infernape

Infernape gets my vote. For the DW ability, I'd say Blaziken with Speed Boost because it's useful for it. But, Infernape has a good ability too. Infernape's Iron Fist will increase the power of punching moves and a good move for Infernape's moveset would be Thunder Punch since water type is weak to electric type and if you want to give Infernape Fire Punch, that's totally fine since Fire Punch is a good fire type move and will increase the power of punching moves. It'll increase fire type moves by Blaze anyway but just by a pinch. For the movepool, Infernape slightly. Most of Blaziken's strong moves either have low accuracy or recoil in it. But Infernape's moves are quite low on power. Infernape's strong moves have either recoil or a secondary effect but I would still recommend them in Infernape's moveset. Flame Wheel is not so bad but it would of been better if Infernape had Fire Punch in it's level up movepool. If counting Generation V, then Acrobatics isn't bad either. For stats, I'd pick Infernape since it's speed helps and it's attack stats aren't so bad either. Blaziken has high attack stats but it's speed stops it. The one that would be more useful would be Infernape thanks to it's speed. If the two were to fight a strong Pokemon between Blaziken and Infernape's speed, for example Salamence, then Infernape will have the better result.

Blaziken's scene:

What will Blaziken do? Blaziken picks Thunder Punch.
(Salamence attacks first since it's faster) Salamence used Zen Headbutt.
It's super effective on Blaziken! Blaziken fainted!

Result: Blaziken didn't do any damage to Salamence.

Infernape's scene:

What will Infernape do? Infernape picks Thunder Punch
(Infernape goes first since it's faster) Infernape used Thunder Punch
(Salamence lost some of it's hp) Salamence used Zen Headbutt
It's super effective on Infernape! Infernape fainted!

Result: Salamence lost some of it's hp.
Overall who has the better result? Infernape.

In my opinion, in the anime, Infernape was a lot cooler than Blaziken. Especially when Blaze activated. Chimchar/Infernape is my favourite fire type starter overall and favourite starter in Sinnoh. But Torchic/Blaziken isn't my favourite Hoenn starter, it's Mudkip/Swampert. I like Infernape's design better too. If Infernape and Blaziken were to fight then Infernape might win if it has a flying move like Aerial Ace or Acrobatics. But if not, then Blaziken with Brave Bird.

Blaziken doesn't even use Thunderpunch that much anymore. Your scenario fails so much it's not even funny.

Whatever happened to Protect + Speedboost which is it's number 1 strategy?

Salamence with Zen Headbutt? That's cute.

Originally Posted by Ranger Jack Walker

Blaziken doesn't even use Thunderpunch that much anymore. Your scenario fails so much it's not even funny.

Whatever happened to Protect + Speedboost which is it's number 1 strategy?

Salamence with Zen Headbutt? That's cute.

Blaziken with Thunder Punch is a useful move for it and it doesn't matter how much it's not used as long as there is a meaning to use it. So basically my scenario didn't fail.

Judging by most of your posts... You've mostly mentioned Blaziken with Protect and Speed Boost. There is more to it than that. A strong enough and fast Pokemon with Fly (which there is) can break through Protect and Speed Boost. Naming some: Aerodactyl, Crobat, Swellow, Salamence, Staraptor, Archeops and Hydreigon.

I suggest that you know about a Pokemon properly before pointing it out. Salamence can learn Zen Headbutt and if you don't believe me then you can find it out in Pokemon websites such as Serebii or Bulbapedia. If you don't like Salamence with Zen Headbutt, then the move can always be Aerial Ace, Earthquake, Bulldoze etc... Salamence has supreme attack stats and Blaziken has low defence stats so even normal effective moves like Dragon Claw, Outrage can likely take down Blaziken.

Thunderpuch has too low power. A neatral High Jump Kick does a lot more damage than even a super effective Thunderpuch. Granted that against Salamence, High Jump Kick is not a good option but most Blaziken will not use Thunderpunch because most of the time, even with the coverage and super effective bonus it offers, High Jump Kick is just flat out better.

You have to consider that no one uses fly. And I don't mean 'hardly anyone uses fly'. I mean NO ONE uses fly. It leaves gives your opponent time to react because now he knows what move is coming obviously. In such a scenario, no trainer with an significant level of skill will keep Blaziken in the battle. They will switch out.

Salamence has far better moves to even take a second look at Zen Headbutt.

The standard opening for Blaziken is now always protect. If your opponent used an offensive move, you're safe. If your speed is now higher due to boost, you attack with a super effective move. In this case, Stone Edge (which Blaziken carries very often) which will kill Salamence. Unless your blaziken was intimidated in which case Blaziken should have switched last turn itself.

If your opponent uses a set up move, especially one that raises speed, your best bet is to switch out. If Salamence gets that Dragon Dance, Blaziken is a gone anyway.

If your opponent uses fly, well then he probably just handed you the match on a silver platter.

Then you have to consider if a Blaziekn should be going up against Salamence in the first place. It's not a good matchup. But Blaziken has a higher probability of defeating it then Infernape (which has close to 0% chance).

Blaziken because it's has a cooler design and the original Fire-Fighting type and Blaze Kick is one of the coolest Fire-types moves ever. I never really liked Chimchar and it's evolution line cause a starter based off a fire monkey seems unappealing to me.

Originally Posted by Ranger Jack Walker

Thunderpuch has too low power. A neatral High Jump Kick does a lot more damage than even a super effective Thunderpuch. Granted that against Salamence, High Jump Kick is not a good option but most Blaziken will not use Thunderpunch because most of the time, even with the coverage and super effective bonus it offers, High Jump Kick is just flat out better.

You have to consider that no one uses fly. And I don't mean 'hardly anyone uses fly'. I mean NO ONE uses fly. It leaves gives your opponent time to react because now he knows what move is coming obviously. In such a scenario, no trainer with an significant level of skill will keep Blaziken in the battle. They will switch out.

Salamence has far better moves to even take a second look at Zen Headbutt.

The standard opening for Blaziken is now always protect. If your opponent used an offensive move, you're safe. If your speed is now higher due to boost, you attack with a super effective move. In this case, Stone Edge (which Blaziken carries very often) which will kill Salamence. Unless your blaziken was intimidated in which case Blaziken should have switched last turn itself.

If your opponent uses a set up move, especially one that raises speed, your best bet is to switch out. If Salamence gets that Dragon Dance, Blaziken is a gone anyway.

If your opponent uses fly, well then he probably just handed you the match on a silver platter.

Then you have to consider if a Blaziekn should be going up against Salamence in the first place. It's not a good matchup. But Blaziken has a higher probability of defeating it then Infernape (which has close to 0% chance).

Did you just say Thunder Punch has low power? Thunder Punch has 75 points in base power which is not low, it's neutral or you can say quite strong. High Jump Kick is not recommended against Pokemon like Salamence since it will miss if Salamence has Fly and once Blaziken takes damage from High Jump Kick, it's done for. Also High Jump Kick is not recommended a lot because of it's accuracy and recoil. High Jump Kick is only useful in certain times such as when a Pokemon is weak to it and when you feel safe to use it. It can be used on Pokemon like Salamence but it is risky.

If that does happen, then the trainer with the Pokemon Fly, can just land it's attack and then switch out. The trainer with Blaziken would likely try to use a move that is super effective against the flying Pokemon. But the trainer with the Pokemon that can learn Fly will likely send out a Pokemon that has resistance over the previous Pokemon that was send out by the Blaziken trainer.

Yes but I'm just giving an example. And, if you think Aerial Ace, Earthquake, Bulldoze etc... are not good moves for Salamence, then it can always be Dragon Claw, Outrage etc... Because Blaziken's defences are weak and these moves I've mentioned can take it down and Salamence won't really need Dragon Dance before it attacks.

Even Blaziken with Stone Edge raising it's speed can fail. The Pokemons I've named in my last reply can all likely still surpass Blaziken even with Speed Boost. Blaziken will need to Speed Boost more than once to surpass these Pokemon I've named in speed. So basically after two attacks from them or even one will do Blaziken good. It's not likely that one Stone Edge can take down Salamence and if it has Focus Sash then Blaziken will be defeated. So Salamence is actually a good matchup.

How the heck is Infernape close to a 0% chance? Hell, I've just explained it all in my scenario. Infernape is likely to carry around Stone Edge too. And I can always give you another scenario.

Blaziken:

What will Blaziken do? Blaziken picked Stone Edge.
(Salamence goes first) Salamence used Outrage.
Blaziken held into it's Focus Sash. Blaziken used Stone Edge... It's super effective!
Salamence survives or Salamence held into it's Focus Sash. Salamence used Outrage.
*Blaziken fainted*

Infernape:
Infernape used Stone Edge...
It's super effective! Salamence used Outrage.
Infernape held into it's Focus Sash. Infernape used Stone Edge again...
It's super effective! Salamence fainted!

Better result overall: Infernape

Also, why is Blaziken with Protect and Speed Boost that important? You keep on stating just about Blaziken with Protect and Speed Boost. It's like saying Slaking is useless because of it's ability, which it's not. There is a lot more than that.

I already said that against Salamence, High Jump Kick is not recommended.

But in most situations, a neutral HJK is far better than a SE Thunder Punch.

A super Effective Thunderpuch does 150 damage. A Neutral HJK does 195 damage. Far better.

And every Blaziken has Speed Boost. Why wouldn't it? Would you intentionally use an inferior Blaziken? And every Blaziken also has Portect because it absolutely needs it.

So the scenario goes:

Blaziken used Protect
Salamence used <insert powerful/super effective move)
Blaziken protected itself
Blaziken's speed rose due to Speed Boost.
(Blaziken is now faster)
Blaziken used Stone Edge
Salamence fainted
if both have Focus Sash, then it's just delaying the inevitable by one turn. But it's unlikely that either will have a focus sash so the point is moost anyway.

A blaziken with Spped Boost and protect is important. It's just flat out better than any other variation of Blaziken. This part is not up for debate, it's just fact. I will never get why people intentionally gimp one Pokemon to make the other look better.

And did you just say that Slaking is not completely worthless despite it's ability? Wow, just wow. If your opponent majorly sucks then maybe Slaking isn't so bad...

Originally Posted by Ranger Jack Walker

I already said that against Salamence, High Jump Kick is not recommended.

But in most situations, a neutral HJK is far better than a SE Thunder Punch.

A super Effective Thunderpuch does 150 damage. A Neutral HJK does 195 damage. Far better.

And every Blaziken has Speed Boost. Why wouldn't it? Would you intentionally use an inferior Blaziken? And every Blaziken also has Portect because it absolutely needs it.

So the scenario goes:

Blaziken used Protect
Salamence used <insert powerful/super effective move)
Blaziken protected itself
Blaziken's speed rose due to Speed Boost.
(Blaziken is now faster)
Blaziken used Stone Edge
Salamence fainted
if both have Focus Sash, then it's just delaying the inevitable by one turn. But it's unlikely that either will have a focus sash so the point is moost anyway.

A blaziken with Spped Boost and protect is important. It's just flat out better than any other variation of Blaziken. This part is not up for debate, it's just fact. I will never get why people intentionally gimp one Pokemon to make the other look better.

And did you just say that Slaking is not completely worthless despite it's ability? Wow, just wow. If your opponent majorly sucks then maybe Slaking isn't so bad...

It doesn't matter how much better High Jump Kick is, it won't change the fact that Salamence can beat Blaziken. And just give it up, why do you keep stating Blaziken with Speed Boost? It just shows me that you think Blaziken is useless without Speed Boost. I keep saying this and I suggest you read it, there is more to it than that. It's not all about a Pokemon's ability, seriously. You've clearly misunderstood Pokemon. Blaziken isn't inferior without Speed Boost. Many people use Blaziken without Speed Boost like how many people use the popular and overrated Charizard without it's DW ability.

Your scenario failed badly. First, Blaziken can't be faster than Salamence with just one Speed Boost and secondly, since Blaziken's Protect and Speed Boost is a popular strategy, trainers who are well skilled can just use Dragon Dance instead of attacking first. And then in the next turn Salamence can take down Blaziken with ease since one Dragon Dance is enough for it to beat Blaziken. And it's likely that Salamence will take it down with one hit without Dragon Dance anyway. Further more, it is most likely certain since Dragon Dance has been activated and Salamence with Dragon Dance is quite popular.

I didn't say anything about Blaziken with Protect and Speed Boost not being useful. In my original post I actually said that Blaziken and Speed is useful for it. But there is nothing wrong with Blaziken with Blaze, and I'm saying that because you called Blaziken Inferior which it's not.

Slaking isn't useless, it's ability just limites it's power. It's ability Truant clearly says that it can't attack in consecutive turns. When Slaking is able to attack, It's best for Pokemon to watch out and be careful since it has a destructive attack stat close to Black Kyurem's. So therefore all these reasons are why your arguement is invalid.

I will not 'give it up' Not when you're making false and misinformed claims.

If the Salamence used Dragon Dance, just switch out. You shouldn't be staying in. That's basic sense. If you see the Salamence use Dragon Dance, ou have two options. Switch out and hope for the best or sacrifice Blaziken and try to revenge kill Salamence.

And a single speed boost makes Blaziken faster than Salamence. It makes it faster than Infernape too. This is fact. You refusing to believe it doesn't make it false. Atleast do some goddamn research before trying to invalidate my claims. :|

And since you're so fond of Focus Sash...

Blaziken used Protect
Salamence used Dragon Dance (speed rose + attack rose)
Blaziken's speed rose.
(salamence is still faster)

Salamence used Outrage/Dragon Claw/Earthquake
Blaziken hung on using Focus Sash
Blaziken used Stone Edge
Salamence hung on using Focus Sash
Blaziken's speed rose
(Blaziken is faster)

Blaziken used any offensive move
Salamence fainted.
And Blaziken is not very good without speed boost. This has been the case since Gen IV.

Why shouldn't Blaziken have Speed Boost. It's Blaziken's ace. Blaziken is inferior without Speed Boost. This is fact. This is not opinion or me 'misunderstanding pokemon'. I can't believe anyone would say this and be completely serious.

Slaking is also completely useless. It's ability completely ruins it. You know that move Protect which is increasingly common these days? You can completely shut down Slaking by alternating between it and another move.

Ease up, the pair of you. Not only are you both getting wound up with each other for no good reason, but Salamence vs Blaziken is not relevant to this thread in any way, so the discussion is really quite pointless.

For the record, Salamence's base speed is 100.

After one turn of speed boost, Blaziken's speed becomes 120.

Also, Blaziken is Uber for a reason. Neither Salamence or Infernape are Uber.

Infernape can win a 1v1. It carries a Focus Sash, uses Fake Out to lead and then once Blaziken breaks the Sash next turn Acrobatics or Counter can be used to take it out.

Back on topic, Blaziken gets my vote namely because of Speed Boost. It sent the chicken from UU all the way to Uber. Just one boost and it only fears priority from most Pokemon. A second boost and it's pretty much over.

Didn't you get the message when both your post and my reply to it were deleted?

Back to Blaziken.

Blaziken has base speed of 80 and given max EVs and IVs along with a speed boosting nature, it reaches a max speed stat of 284.

After a single Speed Boost, it's speed reaches of 426. Blaziken is always garuanteed to get a speed boost whether it be through protect or the opponent witching out if his current Pokemon can't counter Blaziken.

So given +1 speed, here's a list of significant Pokemon that Blaziken will outspeed. Note the 'will' This is fact. Nothing anyone says will change that Blaziken will outspeed these Pokemon after that inevitable +1 Speed Boost it will get.

(assuming the Opponent's Pokemon also has max Speed EVs and IVs with speed boosting nature which in reality, most of these Pokemon will not have most of the time)

Alakazam
Gengar
Gyarados
Infernape
Landorus
Latios
Latias
Terrakion
Tornadus
Virizion
Arceus
Darkrai
Dialga
Palkia
Groudon
Kyogre
Rayquaza
Lugia
Ho-oh
Mewtwo
Shaymin-S
Garchomp
Reshiram
Zekrom
Thundurus
And many more

All that with just one one speed boost.

Now outspeeding isn't everything. What's the point of being faster if you can't beat the opponent? So let's narrow down the list to Pokemon that Blaziken can OHKO with it's standard set of Flare Blitz, Stone Edge, High Jump Kick, Protect.

Gyarados (not sure on what part Intimidate will play)
Infernape
Terrakion
Tornadus
Thundurus
Virizion
Some variants of Arcues (depending on their type)
Darkrai
Ho-oh
Shaymin-S
Mewtwo
And still many more.

That's not even all considering I only considered fast Pokemon and some common Ubers.

That's a significant list of some of OU and Ubers top threats. There's a reason why Blaziken went from UU to Uber with just the addition of Speed Boost and HJK. Now it isn't as simple as outspeeding and OHKOing but the point I'm trying to make is that even with just one boost, Blaziken is broken as hell.

Hell, Smogon warns players not to underestimate Blaziken as even in Ubers, it will kick your aass.

As for Blaze Blaziken, I don't know where it wold stand but considering the Power creep this Gen, I doubt it would be higher than RU.

Now for Infernape. It still performs remarkably well in OU and remains a very good Pokemon to usse there. But fact is, Blaziken is in a whole new league. It completely blows Infernape away.

In Ubers, Blaziken's counters are:
*Giratina
*Smart switching with Bulky Water Types and Ghost Types to let the recooil damage add up and bring down Blaziken.

That's right, the only reliable way to defeat Blaziken is to hopefully get it to kill itself by recoil and/or HJK miss recoil. That speaks volumes about Blaziken's sheer power.


BTW mods, I hope this is back on topic.

Blaziken he's the original Fire/Fighting and I can't stand monkey's (Oh how I hate the Elemental Monkey's... and EVERYBODY has them!) and I've never liked Infernape (second least favorite starter after Meganium) plus come-on a fighting chicken on fire that's badass XD

As for battle Blaziken is Uber and for a damn good reason... Speed-Boost on him is broken we've seen what Pokemon he can OHKO right? A good amount of the Uber tier that's scary... he utterly PWNS Infernape... simple all he has to do is use Protect when Infernape tries using an SE move and get a free boost and hit him with Stone Edge even if Infernape has a Focus Slash odds are so will Blaziken so Infernape is doomed...