Ash vs. Game!Red - Page 12

View Poll Results: Ash or Red?

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  • Ash

    51 20.48%
  • Red

    198 79.52%
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Thread: Ash vs. Game!Red

  1. #166
    Eternal ComakariShipper dracoflare's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ash vs. Game!Red

    Ash, of course. The aspect of Pokemon that entertains me the most is the anime, not the games, not the manga, not anything else.

    Game!Red will be nothing more than an overglorified sprite to me. Ash is much much much more than that, he is my inspiration, he is why I still watch the anime (though his BW days weren't pretty to watch), he influenced my childhood greatly and I am grand grand fan of his.

    That is my opinion anyway.
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  2. #167
    Jacen the Robot Floatzel Robo-Floatzel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ash vs. Game!Red

    You know that Red will win regardless. What significant thing has Ash ever done that's gained him reputation? Absolutely nothing, that's what! Red has at least done significant things, Ash hasn't...
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  3. #168
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    Default Re: Ash vs. Game!Red

    Quote Originally Posted by Robo-Floatzel View Post
    You know that Red will win regardless. What significant thing has Ash ever done that's gained him reputation? Absolutely nothing, that's what! Red has at least done significant things, Ash hasn't...
    yeah, I mean it's not like Ash hasn't saved the world...several times...once on TV...defeated a legendary or two.

  4. #169
    Bringing the Thunder Bolt the Cat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ash vs. Game!Red

    Red has proven to be infinitely more competent than Ash could ever be, so it's no contest.

  5. #170
    Eternal ComakariShipper dracoflare's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ash vs. Game!Red

    Quote Originally Posted by Robo-Floatzel View Post
    You know that Red will win regardless. What significant thing has Ash ever done that's gained him reputation? Absolutely nothing, that's what! Red has at least done significant things, Ash hasn't...
    Red will win what? This poll? What has that to do with stating MY opinion?

    What did RED accomplish? He is basically YOU in R/B/Y, he does nothing but use overleveled Pokemon and make people delude that he's the strongest trainer when in reality his team can be defeated by a bunch of level 60s. In PWT he's the easiest to defeat.
    er
    I know people are going to attack me for stating an unpopular opinion, but Game!Red did NOTHING. He doesn't have a character, he doesn't have a personality beyond ".....".
    Tsutarja likes this.
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    Road to be a Pokemon Master <---Slightly Popular Tournament Fic featuring Ash.
    Beyond Truths and Ideals<--Featuring a clash between Ash, N, Team Rocket,Team Plasma and much more.
    50 Shippings to Boot With<--Mega Project to write 50 One-shots for 50 different Shippings.

  6. #171
    The Deceiver Pokemon Team Gaara's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ash vs. Game!Red

    Quote Originally Posted by dracoflare View Post
    I know people are going to attack me for stating an unpopular opinion, but Game!Red did NOTHING. He doesn't have a character, he doesn't have a personality beyond ".....".
    Actually, canonically, Red did do something. Regardless of opinion, we know, based on in-game text, that he: defeated Giovanni and Team Rocket, is considered a hero of Kanto, and has been called a legendary trainer. That's not nothing, if you ask me.

    On a related note, pertaining to something else that was mentioned, it is questionable how many of Ash's "saving the world" exploits can even be considered canon seeing as the movies seem not to pertain to the actual series episodes at all.
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  7. #172
    Jacen the Robot Floatzel Robo-Floatzel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ash vs. Game!Red

    Quote Originally Posted by dracoflare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robo-Floatzel View Post
    You know that Red will win regardless. What significant thing has Ash ever done that's gained him reputation? Absolutely nothing, that's what! Red has at least done significant things, Ash hasn't...
    Red will win what? This poll? What has that to do with stating MY opinion?

    What did RED accomplish? He is basically YOU in R/B/Y, he does nothing but use overleveled Pokemon and make people delude that he's the strongest trainer when in reality his team can be defeated by a bunch of level 60s. In PWT he's the easiest to defeat.
    er
    I know people are going to attack me for stating an unpopular opinion, but Game!Red did NOTHING. He doesn't have a character, he doesn't have a personality beyond ".....".
    Well what has Ash done? His skills (and sometimes personality) resets every time he touches the soil of another region, he relies on Pikachu more than any of his other Pokemon. Not to mention he loses almost every single tournament he enters, and he often wins battles through Deus ex Machina methods.

    The thing about Red is that YOU give him the personality you want him to have, if one doesn't like how Ash is acting, they can use Red (or any player character for that matter) to create the character they believe Ash should be.
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  8. #173
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    Default Re: Ash vs. Game!Red

    Red is better because he doesn't f*** around like Ash does.

  9. #174
    Secret Sword of Justice Kelleo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ash vs. Game!Red

    I voted Ash. Red is obviously the stronger trainer, but as some have stated, Ash entertains me more. Yeah, it was stupid that he was "reset" in the BW anime, but still.

    And what things has Ash done? How about defeating the entire Battle Frontier, which apparently not many were able to do, not even really strong trainers like Paul and Reggie? How about becoming the Orange League champion? How about how he goes out of his way to help any Pokemon or person in need? He has his stupid moments, but overall, he's a good guy and is quite clever sometimes. And sometimes he's downright hilarious.

    Red doesn't have a character of his own. I realize this is because he's a player character, but still. The fact that Ash just actually entertains me is why I must vote for him. I don't dislike Red or anything though.

  10. #175
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    Default Re: Ash vs. Game!Red

    Red. I like Ash, but Red is cooler and more competent.

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  11. #176
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    Default Re: Ash vs. Game!Red

    Little problem with that...

    See... A character that never grows out of at least one flaw is just as unrealistic and boring as a character with no flaws to grow out of, especially if he's the main character of the story. And, honestly, he doesn't even have many if any real, notable flaws at all to explore. He's a strong-willed, happy kid with the world still somehow ahead of him, a never-give-up attitude, the ability to let go without disconnecting, a lot of love in him and the ability to self-sacrifice with the will to always go on. He's smarter than he lets on, strategic, and knows how to work an angle and see the best in people and can either defeat or win the hearts of almost everyone who doesn't somehow foil himself. His only flaws include being a complete dunderhead, apathy toward romance, traces of selfishness, a pikachu that goes back to level 1 at the beginning of every season and just being a general kid. None of this, however, has ever inhibited him in any way or stands out at all from any other 10-year-old. Most of this wouldn't be bad if he weren't the center of attention in the story. He's just as much of a Mary sue as Red is. He's got no underlying drive to become a pokemon master, no other ambitions... and that could be why Red went into recluse, because he had nothing left and realized that. Still doesn't excuse him from being perfect, but at least he realized that perfection was boring.

    Four separate series with 16 seasons in them of 800+ episodes total and that's only in the canon of that actual show with more coming up. Then we add in 16 total movies, 8 TV specials, 25 side-story episodes, 7 Winter Vacation shorts and 8 ANA flights shorts. They've already established that Ash's character, and Pikachu's, aren't going anywhere seasons ago. Don't get me wrong, I actually did like some of the later seasons, but Ash just got on my nerves more and more as time went on. At least most of the other characters in the show had reasons to be completely inept about the world because they usually are still newbies. I don't like perfect characters, but a story that never ends is just as annoying, if not more. 16 years with no closure for one character in sight tends to wear the fanbase down. He becomes stale and over-used and you can practically predict his lines before he even says them. He hasn't changed in any way since the beginning and I can't think of a time when he was directly responsible for inhibiting his own goals aside from "just didn't train his pokemon hard enough" or being too stupid to realize the cheesiest of disguises.

    The best thing they did with Ash was call his entire life and passion into question and then completely destroy him with his battle with Paul, but that "arc" was short lived. The only thing left now is the one thing the writers said they wouldn't bring out unless they felt it at all necessary or relevant and that's is Ash's father, who they've already suggested to be alive and out on his own journey when asked. I'll allow you to judge that for yourself.

    The anime would be so much better if it had 4 [soon to be 5] different characters for each series and each with his or her own story to follow. They have their won flaws, weaknesses, questions and answers, paths and personalities, views... it would've been great. No doubt it would've gotten repetitive at some point, but there's plenty of room to work. Ash just kills it all.

  12. #177
    追放されたバカ Spyspotter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ash vs. Game!Red

    Red took down Team Rocket. Team Rocket still chases Ash around. 'Nuff said.

  13. #178
    Good Bad Bug Glitchipedia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ash vs. Game!Red

    I've posted in this thread before, but I'm afraid I failed to specify the exact reasons why I voted for Red. Let me quote a comment I left on a blog post some time ago.

    In my case, I just don't think the anime is very good, either as an adaptation or on its own merits. It started off vaguely interesting, but my understanding is that now it's strictly formulaic and obviously an extended commercial for the games. Ash never ages, never changes, never learns, and his character has just grown stale. What's worse is that he saves the world on his off days, but he can't seem to muster that same power to win a League—not to mention the number of times he's defied the established game mechanics to get himself out of a tight spot.

    If Red needs to get out of a corner, he has to plan ahead and strategize, not pull out some bullshit god power that completely ignores the rules. Even at level 88, Red's Pikachu can't use Electric attacks on a Ground-type. In the hands of the player, he is capable of learning and adapting, and instead of reverting after the story ends, he just keeps getting stronger. Another thing is that, canonically, Red only appears three times—once as the hero, once as a bonus boss, and once as a tournament contestant. Because we don't see him all the time, we're less likely to get sick of him.

    Silent and emotionless, Red can prove to be a very scary opponent, because you can't tell what he's thinking. On the other hand, Ash can't seem to shut up and clearly has no idea what a poker face is. I wouldn't necessarily ask him to adopt Red's personality in his daily life, but as far as battles go, would acting classes really hurt? Presentation is a fair portion of combat on its own, for heaven's sake.

    But speaking of Ash's daily life, let us examine his social skills, shall we? Now, since he's ten, I can understand him being a little clumsy in this department, but....a lot of the time it's just painful to watch. Perhaps this is why Red is silent—he knows his skills are limited and thinks it better to just keep his mouth shut.

    Finally, the plots they respectively follow. Red isn't the Chosen One. No Aura Guardian blood runs through his veins. He doesn't avert the apocalypse every other week. He isn't followed by Ho-Oh wherever he goes, and he doesn't die and come back to life half a dozen times. He's just an ordinary kid. Which makes everything he does accomplish that much more badass: how many ordinary eleven-year-olds can take down a notorious crime syndicate single-handedly and then continue to challenge the Indigo League—let alone win it—in practically the same breath? True, the later protagonists follow the same basic plot, but they seem to get more and more outside help with each installment. Red is a living legend because, on the whole, the only direct help he receives is from his own Pokémon. Other than that, he faces it all alone, and manages to overcome every single obstacle by playing by the rules.

    (Repost ends here.)

    Looking over this again, I do honestly wonder how a battle between these two would turn out. On the one hand, Ash can defy the game mechanics and beat Red because the plot demands it; on the other hand, Red is a champion-level (or higher) trainer, of which, to my knowledge, Ash has only defeated one.

    My conclusion: in the context of any conceivable plot involving both characters, the only outcome I can see is that the battle is left unresolved and they're forced to team up for some reason. Because actually having one of them win would be an anticlimax either way.
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  14. #179
    Master Exploder GastonGibus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ash vs. Game!Red

    In terms of battle strength? Red, obviously, since he's probably the most powerful NPC trainer you can possibly fight in any of the games.

    However, if we're just comparing the characters themselves and all their aspects? I'm going to say Ash. It always bugged me how Red is practically worshipped for being a bad-a**, but what's so cool about him? He has no personality whatsoever. In Generation 1, he's the PC, which means he never says anything. In generation 2, where you can actually fight him, this time he... no wait, he still doesn't say anything. He just sits there, battles you, then disappears forever. I swear he was just put in the game as fan-service.

    At least Ash has a personality and actual dialogue. No, "..." does not count as dialogue. Ash is an actual character, whether you care about him or think he's annoying, it's because of his personality. Red is just a boss battle that appears for a second and then goes away. Yet he's considered the greatest Pokemon character ever. I don't get it... :/
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  15. #180
    Registered User pokemon9007's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ash vs. Game!Red

    PIKACHU I CHOSE YOU!

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