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Thread: Writer's Workshop General Chat Thread

  1. #5476
    .______. Elysia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Writer's Workshop General Chat Thread

    ...I'm pretty sure my female character/nameless narrator of SRBS fails, at least until the Whitney arc, which is probably (at this rate) going to be around chapter thirty, meaning we'll never see it posted on here, lol.

    This amuses me to no end.

    Justified a bit in that, even though she does have a good mix of gendered Pokemon, they don't strictly talk, per se, so there's no conversation, and a large portion of the plot is devoted to making sure that Narrator doesn't actually talk to real people. ._.

    But wow I forgot that Bechdel was a thing that was still around. I sort of stopped believing its validity after Mulan failed and Fifty Shades of Grey didn't, lol.

  2. #5477
    Your mind is a world AetherX's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Writer's Workshop General Chat Thread

    Well it's certainly not something to be firmly followed, and that is a good reason why.

    I consider my fic to have a reasonable number of female characters, and their motivations and purpose have nothing to do with men, but the plot has never necessitated that they really talk to each other.

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    .______. Elysia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Writer's Workshop General Chat Thread

    Having a first person narrator also definitely impairs your ability to depict conversations, for example--if, like in Unpredictable, the narrator is first person and male, it's difficult to show conversations through that lens and not have him be present/participating, which probably means that the conversation will at some point turn to be about him.

    At the same time, it doesn't seem like passing Bechdel should be as easy or as uncommon as it is.

    IDK MAN.

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    Moderator AceTrainer14's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Writer's Workshop General Chat Thread

    I think all of my fics would probably pass quite well (Alaska and Sandy, Vanessa and Sahara, Leaf and Janine to name a few), but that test does seem a bit flawed, if you ask me. I think it is a bit silly to say that all movies/books/tv shows should have to include female characters doing those particular things. Some stories work better when its an all or mostly male cast, and I feel unnecessarily shoehorning in female characters for the sole purposes of equality could do more harm to a story than improve it. And when they say 'discuss men', does that include discuss family members or rivals? In 'Kris vs Gold', Kris' sole conversations with other women, from memory, are either about her father or Gold who she hates - but would that lead to the story failing? It seems a bit silly to me, and that Vito Russo one for LGBT characters that was on the Wikipedia page seems a bit OTT as well; you shouldn't just make characters gay for the sake of being able to say they are gay.

    Slightly off topic but as other people were saying similar things on the previous page, I have completed my first Galactic in nine months but only the second chapter this year! Managed not to break 50 pages this time, and thankfully the next two chapters should both be out by the end of February if I am lucky :D

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    Registered User Caitlin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Writer's Workshop General Chat Thread

    I don't get it. If two characters ever talk about men just once throughout the story that's it? Game over?

    My real father lost his head at King's Landing. I made a choice, and I chose wrong. ~ Theon Greyjoy

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    Your mind is a world AetherX's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Writer's Workshop General Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Having a first person narrator also definitely impairs your ability to depict conversations, for example--if, like in Unpredictable, the narrator is first person and male, it's difficult to show conversations through that lens and not have him be present/participating, which probably means that the conversation will at some point turn to be about him.
    I dunno. Ninety percent of my social life is observing conversations that I have nothing to do with and don't participate in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caitlin View Post
    I don't get it. If two characters ever talk about men just once throughout the story that's it? Game over?
    Yep, the Sexism in Writing Police kick down your door and arrest you. 300 years in a dungeon full of mosquitoes and obnoxious people talking over what might be an interesting movie. Also, you're wearing ski boots and your toe itches.

    There's no reason to take it really seriously. It's more of an interesting thought experiment than a "YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD BECAUSE YOU OBJECTIFY WOMEN YOU PIECE OF SHIT"

  7. #5482
    Less cute in person Beth Pavell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Writer's Workshop General Chat Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherX View Post

    I dunno. Ninety percent of my social life is observing conversations that I have nothing to do with and don't participate in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caitlin View Post
    I don't get it. If two characters ever talk about men just once throughout the story that's it? Game over?
    Yep, the Sexism in Writing Police kick down your door and arrest you. 300 years in a dungeon full of mosquitoes and obnoxious people talking over what might be an interesting movie. Also, you're wearing ski boots and your toe itches.

    There's no reason to take it really seriously. It's more of an interesting thought experiment than a "YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD BECAUSE YOU OBJECTIFY WOMEN YOU PIECE OF SHIT"
    In the original webcomic for which the test is named, it stipulates that at least two women (The named thing was added later) must have at least one conversation not about men. I like the test as a fun thought-experiment, and it does have some merit as that. I think the problem is that since then it's kind of been forgotten that the "test" is at least half a webcomic joke.

    I can guarantee that The Long Walk will pass most versions of the test. It's already passed the original in Chapter Three. But then, I am writing about Joy family issues ...

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    Moderator AceTrainer14's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Writer's Workshop General Chat Thread

    I think it can be a fun experiment too, but I don't think it should be something to truly consider. There are enough things people worry about when writing when they really shouldnt (IE Mary Sue's), we don't need something else joining the list :P

  9. #5484
    CEO of the Monsters Lugion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Writer's Workshop General Chat Thread

    I have a few rules for female characters that I try hard to follow:

    If there is more than one female character, they should be as varied as a similar number of male characters.
    Female characters should be fully-realized characters with hopes, dreams, regrets, etc., just like any male character would have, that don't revolve around a male character.

    And that's basically it.

  10. #5485
    .______. Elysia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Writer's Workshop General Chat Thread

    In the words of Writing God....

    Granted, I find writing guys harder than writing girls, but there's probably a very obvious reason for that.

  11. #5486
    Clarion of Revelations Feliciano's Avatar Social Media Editor
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    Default Re: Writer's Workshop General Chat Thread

    So I finally have my computer back. Yay.

    Um...what's the topic, writing girls vs. boys?
    ~ 3DS Friend Code: 5300-9399-4530~

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  12. #5487
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    Default Re: Writer's Workshop General Chat Thread

    And some mild amusement because apparently all of the guys write female characters who are all more empowered than mine, according to Bechdel. xD

    *gets dragged off to tenth circle of hell, where the people who speak in the theater and Jayne Cobb reside*

  13. #5488
    Clarion of Revelations Feliciano's Avatar Social Media Editor
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    Default Re: Writer's Workshop General Chat Thread

    I don't...really honestly care about the Bechdel test. I'd rather focus on actual overall quality of writing, of which the test is no indication. Good characters come out of good writing. I don't personally have much of a problem switching between writing guys and girls, but that's just because I've had a LOT of practice.
    ~ 3DS Friend Code: 5300-9399-4530~

    Heart of Crystal - a Crystal Nuzlocke challenge story
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  14. #5489
    Vile, Venomous Villain Murkmire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Writer's Workshop General Chat Thread

    Hello, again. How is everyone?

  15. #5490
    Moderator AceTrainer14's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Writer's Workshop General Chat Thread

    I am good, though I have a weird ear infection thing at the moment that is making me half deaf which is very annoying :/

    It has been over two weeks now, so just wanted to point out that my request in the Review Game has currently gone unanswered. If you don't have much to read at the moment, then why not give The First Warriors a read through and take part in the game :D *end of shameless promotion*

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