Writer's Workshop General Chat Thread

[Tophat Dragoneye]

Re-filming every scene where Philosopher's Stone appears into the Sorcerer's Stone... Sounds like an awful lot of trouble and money to do. Not exactly worth it in my opinion.

And speaking of Americanization of movies, they also did that with a Swedish movie called "Mænd der hader kvinder" ("Men who hates women", when directly translated). The American version is called "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo". It takes place in Sweden, as in the original movie and book, but everything is in American English, which is kinda wrong in my opinion.

[Legacy]

And I think "Philosopher's Stone" sounds plain silly.

@Kelleo: The movie title was changed for America too. Everywhere else it's the Philosopher's Stone.

Then how come in the movie, the characters also refer to it as the Sorcerer's Stone? Don't tell me they refilmed every scene it's mentioned in. I would think that that would just be too much work.

@Gastly's Mama;: Because I guessed that "Philosopher's Stone" and "Sorcerer's Stone" were the same thing. I didn't know for sure.

They genuinely did refilm every scene where they referred to the Philosopher's Stone. Everywhere outside the US got it as the "Philosopher's Stone".

And I think "Philosopher's Stone" sounds plain silly.

@Kelleo: The movie title was changed for America too. Everywhere else it's the Philosopher's Stone.

Then how come in the movie, the characters also refer to it as the Sorcerer's Stone? Don't tell me they refilmed every scene it's mentioned in. I would think that that would just be too much work.
@Gastly's Mama;: Because I guessed that "Philosopher's Stone" and "Sorcerer's Stone" were the same thing. I didn't know for sure.

Wasn't it only known as the "Philosopher's Stone" for the British release of the book?

US release of book, it was changed to "Sorcerer's Stone."

And obviously, since the movie was made after the books, it was "Sorcerer's Stone."

That's not right, Legacy. Only the US got "Sorcerer's Stone", for some reason the publishers felt that everyone but Americans would get the "Philosopher's Stone", I don't know why. International publication firms (in books, TV, movies etc.) always dumb things down for Americans. Personally, I don't think it's necessary, and I think part of it is just an excuse to give American media firms more stuff to do (it justifies remakes of British TV shows for American audiences, so they can "understand" them - justifies the use of an unnecessary regionalisation team for the US version of Harry Potter, etc.) and is just insulting to everyday Americans.

And, yeah, as I said, they literally did refilm every scene where the Stone was mentioned - so Americans get it as the Sorcerer's Stone and everyone else gets the Philosopher's Stone. Stupid, I know. I refuse to believe that the American population is genuinely so much less intelligent and knowledgeable than the rest of the world that all of that effort is at all necessary. But, I'm not American, so I guess I don't know - what do you guys think?

Whoa, crazy. Seems like a lot of work just to cater to us dum Americanz.

[Gama]

Re-filming every scene where Philosopher's Stone appears into the Sorcerer's Stone... Sounds like an awful lot of trouble and money to do. Not exactly worth it in my opinion.

And speaking of Americanization of movies, they also did that with a Swedish movie called "Mænd der hader kvinder" ("Men who hates women", when directly translated). The American version is called "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo". It takes place in Sweden, as in the original movie and book, but everything is in American English, which is kinda wrong in my opinion.

The English translation of the first book was called "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" too. Also, I didn't know there was an American version of the film - I've seen an English version which was really good. I think that's a bit different since the original is in English, so it's actually a language translation. Granted, people could just watch the original with subtitles, but I think there's a big difference between translating a film so people don't have to bother with subtitles etc. and "cultural translation" which basically amounts to dumbing stuff down, which is not only unnecessary but pretty patronising.

[TheLlama]

@Gastly's Mama; there are two very separate adaptations, one Swedish (2009) and one English (2011)... pretty sure it was made in America.

Re-filming every scene where Philosopher's Stone appears into the Sorcerer's Stone... Sounds like an awful lot of trouble and money to do. Not exactly worth it in my opinion.

And speaking of Americanization of movies, they also did that with a Swedish movie called "Mænd der hader kvinder" ("Men who hates women", when directly translated). The American version is called "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo". It takes place in Sweden, as in the original movie and book, but everything is in American English, which is kinda wrong in my opinion.

Actually, having foreign country settings while retaining an English language is a very sound move, as many people are instantly skeptical to hearing foreign languages; this is why so many things gets dubbed. But the first adaptation (from 2009) was made by a Swedish studio and was in Swedish - only the second adaptation (2011) was in English, which seems natural as it was made by an American studio casting American characters (also, there was already a Swedish version, why do another one when an English one is much more profitable and lets more people enjoy it?)

[Gama]

@Gastly's Mama; there are two very separate adaptations, one Swedish (2009) and one English (2011)... pretty sure it was made in America.



Actually, having foreign country settings while retaining an English language is a very sound move, as many people are instantly skeptical to hearing foreign languages; this is why so many things gets dubbed. But the first adaptation (from 2009) was made by a Swedish studio and was in Swedish - only the second adaptation (2011) was in English, which seems natural as it was made by an American studio casting American characters (also, there was already a Swedish version, why do another one when an English one is much more profitable and lets more people enjoy it?)

Looked it up, and it is indeed American, you're right. I saw it, though, and it was really good. Not very "American" in style (fitting, as the books very much aren't) and contrary to what you've said, there's actually no American actors. The vast majority of the actors are Swedish, with the practically singular exception of the lead who is English (Daniel Craig AKA James Bond - fortunately he doesn't play it anything like Bond as Bond is a character and series that fits into the style that I've, perhaps unfairly, dubbed "American")

You're right that people could just enjoy the dub, but the fact is that they don't. People are sceptical about dubs too. Dubs just don't catch on that much. Part of the reason being that the voices very frequently don't match up with the acting, and don't always have the feel of the film.

I'm not necessarily saying that making an English language remake of a film is totally OK, but I think it is different, and more OK than making an American remake of a film that is already English language because in the latter case the only reason why you would do this is because you think Americans (or whatever nationality the film is remade for, usually American, but could be something else) are so incapable of appreciating alternate culture that everything needs to be Americanised for them, which just isn't true. As I said before, I think it's just an excuse that American studios use to rip off other films and block the originals from blockbuster success in America, and give themselves an unfair share in the original film or series.

[TheLlama]

@Gastly's Mama; Both lead actors in the 2011 film are American (Rooney Mara comes from New York, if I am not mistaken). Several of the minor actors are American and/or star predominantly in American-made movies.

I wasn't trying to say people should just enjoy teh dub; I just meant to imply that it's there because foreign languages make people iffy. Dubs are still a far shot away from being close to good, though; in fact I abhor their very existence. I've seen three, maybe four dubbed movies (coincidentally, all animated) that were anything that can be called good. Naturally most things that get dubbed are animated which removes some of the issues regarding character-voice compatibility and lip synch, but the original almost always is better (the Norwegian version of the first Ice Age is an example of a movie that was significantly improved with its dub - I simply can't watch it in English).

I agree that American remakes (or as more often is the case; remasterings) of already English-language movies/books/whatever is extremely silly, and whatever reasons people have for doing that I can't see justified.

My personal opinion is that foreign languages are often fantastic to watch movies in - often because it fits, often because voices are better, often due to other reasons. Amélie is an example of such a movie; it's French, and everyone speaks in French, but it's fantastically awesome. Most anime are better in their original (but that has more to do with the quality of Japanese voice acting and the fact that they exaggerate emotions as much as the visual style would imply, something English VAs often fail to do).

[Gama]

@Llama_Guy; I looked it up, and you're right that Mara is American, though she does do (for me) a convincing accent. Daniel Craig is definitely not American, I don't know how much more English you can get than being James Bond!

Anyway, that's a bit besides the point, I suppose. I agree with basically everything you say. I think people would probably enjoy things more if they just watched the original of things - I've never seen Amelie personally, but I understand your sentiment.

[TheLlama]

Guh, sorry, I tend to just associate "actor in famous movies" with Hollywood, thus being American. I also honestly believed he was American. But it is true, can't be bond if you're not British :P

Yesyes, we agree, quite so. And you should watch Amélie; a feel-good film with more of a feel-good feel than Amélie does not exist :D

[Red]

So, anyways, writing topic time.

How do you guys make your fics kind of have suspense, like not make things too obvious and stuff?

[adiosToreador]

*grumbles that I missed the discussion on Harry Potter and wonders why the hell wands are "less cool" than giant ass books just because Harry Potter doesn't have the "swords" pard of a swords and sorcery fantasy and Philosopher's Stone actually gives insight as to what the thing is actually supposed to do and AAAAAARGH STOP NO MORE FEELS*

I tend to just not say things. If there's something that the reader doesn't need to know, I don't tell them. Alternatively, if there's something that I want the reader to know but not the protagonist, that's another level of suspense.

[Selemena]

Yeah, I don't see how you can say that 'Philosopher's Stone' sounds silly when it's actually a thing of legend which has been part of international mythos for centuries, whereas 'Sorcerer's Stone' means absolutely nothing. I'm pretty sure that the characters in the book aren't referred to as 'sorcerers' at any time - it's all 'witches' and 'wizards' - and renaming the artifact the 'Sorcerer's Stone' is arbitrary and utterly ridiculous because it does not denote a magical stone which has the power to transmute materials and grant eternal life, whereas 'Philosopher's Stone' does. So I'm sorry, but I guess that's why they renamed it for you guys, if you're gonna get grumpy about the original title. :P

Also: yikes, notifications. :p

[Legacy]

So, anyways, writing topic time.

How do you guys make your fics kind of have suspense, like not make things too obvious and stuff?

I think a big part of writing suspense is planning prior to writing. If you don't have a good idea of where your story is headed, it's hard to write in plot twists and suspense. If you have a strong outline or plan, it's easier to get a little more creative with the plot.

[Tophat Dragoneye]

Similar to what Feliciano said, if there's something the reader doesn't need to know, I won't write it until when needed. But likewise, I'll write something the protagonist doesn't know, but the readers does. There's actually an example to that already in the first chapter in my fic:

Roger was in trouble. He would have to either give up the Pokémon he was to start his career with, or fight against all odds with an unknown Pokémon and with little experience in Pokémon battles besides some basic knowledge. The world around him went into slow motion as he starred at the Pokéball in his hand. Unknown to himself, the right blue eye slowly changed color to yellow, matching his left eye. He then turned his look at the man, time slowly returning to normal for Roger, and now holding the Pokéball in front of his face with an outstretched arm.

[TheLlama]

So, anyways, writing topic time.

How do you guys make your fics kind of have suspense, like not make things too obvious and stuff?

I think a big part of writing suspense is planning prior to writing. If you don't have a good idea of where your story is headed, it's hard to write in plot twists and suspense. If you have a strong outline or plan, it's easier to get a little more creative with the plot.

This.

Also, end scenes and chapters in cliffhangers, that's suspense 101.

[Lugion]

Well, DBL isn't a particularly suspenseful fic, but the suspense is about to get amped up pretty soon.