Thread: What do you find is the biggest single problem with fanfics?

I don't read any more fanfiction, but I remember that one of the most salient problems I had with a lot of them was that they weren't really that well-written.

I think the summary leaves a bit to be desired. We're basically asking what the biggest single problem with them is that makes them badly written. You did expand on the answer later, but your overarching point seems to be pretty... well, overarching and general.

Originally Posted by zakisrage

Yep, in fanfics cute Pokemon are designated heroes, while ugly ones are usually marked "evil". If they're Poison or Dark, it's pretty much automatic (Absol and Umbreon are exceptions). Wouldn't it be refreshing to see a heroic Grimer or a selfish Minccino in a fanfic?

I'm currently working on a Mystery Dungeon fic. I've already played around with a stern but caring Conkeldurr and I'm writing a heroic and widely admired Bisharp as the head of one the teams. One of the main characters would be considered ugly cute* by most. The traditionally cute Pokemon in this area have a tendency to act like snobs or jerks.

Oh yeah, I'm having fun with this.

I think the biggest problem I've had with fics has been the "evil is good" idea. If you're a Transformers fan and you've been on the internet long enough, you'll find fanfics by Raksha, who's been called a Decepticon apologist. In her fics, the Autobots aren't simply defending themselves; they are evil, crazy and tyrannical. All the while the poor sweet Decepticons are simply trying to live their heroic lives but are being hurt by those big meanies, the Autobots.

If you know anything about the Decepticons, these guys are not heroic and they sure as heck don't follow the idea of "Live and let live". If you know anything about the Autobots, you know that a good number of them won't bother you unless you try to hurt them. But no one could tell her otherwise. Her ideas were a bit like Ron the Deatheater but on steroids and I got tired of that idea quick.

I have no problem with swearing or violence if it's used properly but if it's done to simply be "adult", then no. Dropping 75 F-bombs within the first two paragraphs of a fic does not make it adult by any means.


*Warning: This is a link to TVTropes. Just letting you know before you end up spending six hours on the web.

I do hate how good fanfics aren't as recognized as bad fanfic.

Originally Posted by matt0044

I do hate how good fanfics aren't as recognized as bad fanfic.

Well, that's not specifically a problem with the fanfic itself. It's that people don't know what good content is anymore.

People are dumb, or at least it seems they've been becoming that for the past century. They like simple grammar. They like simple, predictable plots. They like cliched romances. They like predictable and boring characters. They like all of this stuff that doesn't challenge their view of the world, their view on society. Things that don't make them think, ask questions. Things that don't comment on the injustices in the world, the problems of every day life. They like a story where the good guy always wins even against impossible odds, and to further that, they like a story with clear cut good and bad characters. It must be back and white, there can never be any grey shades; If it can't be understood without paying attention to the finer details, it is bad writing.

And that is why the true bad writing is shining above all else. It's why shit like Twilight, Catcher in the Rye and 50 Shades of Gray are some of the most popular works of all time. It's why complex and deep works that make you question the morality of certain actions, the norms of society, why works like The Great Gatsby, Great Expectations, Death of a Salesman, The Green Mile, and the works of Shakespeare are falling out of the mainstream; they're too challenging for a "casual" reader to follow. Works like that get high reviews among the intellectuals, but the average reader doesn't care. He or she wants to be comforted, nurtured, babied even by a predictable, happy, fun story where everything falls into place and the world lived happily ever after.

At least, that's my cynical viewpoint.

I don't read fanfics, but I from what I heard it's the grammer and the fact that some are more related to pornos than storys =P

Caitlin: Pfff I love Catcher in the Rye! However, I agree with the rest you've said:)

Originally Posted by Caitlin

Well, that's not specifically a problem with the fanfic itself. It's that people don't know what good content is anymore.

People are dumb, or at least it seems they've been becoming that for the past century. They like simple grammar. They like simple, predictable plots. They like cliched romances. They like predictable and boring characters. They like all of this stuff that doesn't challenge their view of the world, their view on society. Things that don't make them think, ask questions. Things that don't comment on the injustices in the world, the problems of every day life. They like a story where the good guy always wins even against impossible odds, and to further that, they like a story with clear cut good and bad characters. It must be back and white, there can never be any grey shades; If it can't be understood without paying attention to the finer details, it is bad writing.

And that is why the true bad writing is shining above all else. It's why shit like Twilight, Catcher in the Rye and 50 Shades of Gray are some of the most popular works of all time. It's why complex and deep works that make you question the morality of certain actions, the norms of society, why works like The Great Gatsby, Great Expectations, Death of a Salesman, The Green Mile, and the works of Shakespeare are falling out of the mainstream; they're too challenging for a "casual" reader to follow. Works like that get high reviews among the intellectuals, but the average reader doesn't care. He or she wants to be comforted, nurtured, babied even by a predictable, happy, fun story where everything falls into place and the world lived happily ever after.

At least, that's my cynical viewpoint.

Wow, that's just beyond sad. And works that are truly good and original are recognized merely by chance.

And I think it reminds me of this regarding female characters (heads up: it's satirical): How2Make An AWESUM Female Char by ~In-The-Machine on deviantART Though I think it's not merely a problem with fanfiction so much as writing in general.

Originally Posted by matt0044

And I think it reminds me of this regarding female characters (heads up: it's satirical): How2Make An AWESUM Female Char by ~In-The-Machine on deviantART Though I think it's not merely a problem with fanfiction so much as writing in general.

A lot of fanfic critics don't realise that it IS possible to create a female character without making her a Mary Sue.

Originally Posted by Caitlin

Well, that's not specifically a problem with the fanfic itself. It's that people don't know what good content is anymore.

Now, I'm going to put on my populist hat, and start commenting on this.

What is good content? How do you even define such a thing? Have people ever known what good content is? It's easy to say our standards have slipped when your standards have grown higher than most people's.

People are dumb, or at least it seems they've been becoming that for the past century.

A common lament, but one that I think is without base. People have always been dumb. In the century before ours, people were lucky to know how to even read and write instead of just working in a coal mine for ten hours a day. If you were lucky, you learned enough to get by in a factory, and if you were really lucky, you were born into a rich family that could afford proper education. You complain about the decline of writing skills now, but in the 18th century, you were lucky to find two writers who even spelled a word the same way twice in a book, or even two people who could write each other's names if you picked among the general population.

They like simple grammar. They like simple, predictable plots. They like cliched romances. They like predictable and boring characters. They like all of this stuff that doesn't challenge their view of the world, their view on society. Things that don't make them think, ask questions. Things that don't comment on the injustices in the world, the problems of every day life.

Some people want to read books and watch movies for casual enjoyment. To experience a simple fantasy, to delve quickly into another world, even one that they've seen before. Sometimes, a deep, convoluted story is just too hard to get into when all you want to do is to enjoy some reading. Sometimes, people don't want all that depth, and a cheap thrill is perfectly suitable for their needs. What they find enjoyable isn't necessarily what you find enjoyable.

They like a story where the good guy always wins even against impossible odds, and to further that, they like a story with clear cut good and bad characters. It must be black and white, there can never be any grey shades; If it can't be understood without paying attention to the finer details, it is bad writing.

A good guy winning against impossible odds is awesome. It shows just how amazing the good guy is. A good guy losing to impossible odds is non-special, and therefore also boring. "Well no wonder he failed; the odds were stacked so heavily against him!"

A story with clear-cut good and bad characters, black and white, is easy to follow. Some people really don't want fine details to pay attention to, because they don't have the time. They want a work that you can sit down, read, enjoy, and never think about again until you read it another time. Characters with prominent shades of grey (as many as fifty, perhaps?) tend to throw people for a loop, and it's a point of personal preference that most people don't want things like that, if it will muddy up who they root for. While one person might respect the author for managing to subvert their expectations, another might feel betrayed and cheated by the author for doing so.

And that is why the true bad writing is shining above all else.

Have you read some pulp fiction lately? I'm sure you could find thousands of worse examples even among the unpopular works (in fact, especially among the unpopular works; they're unpopular for a reason).

It's why shit like Twilight, Catcher in the Rye and Fifty Shades of Grey are some of the most popular works of all time.

And "shit" like The Hunger Games, A Game of Thrones, Harry Potter, and Life of Pi, amirite?

It's why complex and deep works that make you question the morality of certain actions, the norms of society, why works like The Great Gatsby, Great Expectations, Death of a Salesman, The Green Mile, and the works of Shakespeare are falling out of the mainstream; they're too challenging for a "casual" reader to follow.

It seems like all the critics that talk about "depth" in stories have a preoccupation with morality (and especially moral ambiguity), as if a character or story firmly aligning itself to some ethical paradigm instantly loses the ability to be "deep" and "thoughtful".

I read Great Expectations as a tenth-grade English student; I struggled to follow through with it because it was just so boring. I struggled to even skim through it, because I had no connection with what was going on and couldn't make head nor tail of anything that was going on. No matter how good a work is, nobody can appreciate it if it isn't accessible. Meanwhile, I had a great time reading Animal Farm, even if it was one of the saddest books I've ever read.

Meanwhile, I'd never even heard of Death of a Salesman before you mentioned it just now. No matter how good a work is, nobody can appreciate it if they don't know about it.

Works like that get high reviews among the intellectuals, but the average reader doesn't care. He or she wants to be comforted, nurtured, babied even by a predictable, happy, fun story where everything falls into place and the world lived happily ever after.

And, well, frankly, that's not a problem. Fantasy and wish fulfillment often go hand in hand. I believe there's a maxim in fanfiction circles that states, "Don't like, don't read." If you enjoy being banged on the head by what you read, go read Kafka.

Originally Posted by zakisrage

A lot of fanfic critics don't realise that it IS possible to create a female character without making her a Mary Sue.

A lot of fanfic critics would say that a lot of writers don't realize this. Often it's because the critic lumps on a lot of restrictions that, to the intimidated writer, makes it impossible to write a female character at all. And thus the writer complains, "if I followed everything you said, every female character I wrote would be a Mary Sue!"

I think one of the biggest problems with fanfics is the lack of originality. Many fanfics are the same thing, but with different characters. I admit I have used some fandom-specific plots before, but I realize that some of them are just overused.

Take Pokemon, for instance. Think of the most common plots in Pokemon fanfics. One that is insanely common is the journeyfic. Not to say that journeyfics are bad, but they can get very repetitive. Many of them have Eevee as the starter due to all the Eevee fangirls/fanboys. That, or the Pokemon will be a shiny. Sometimes even shiny Eevee appear.

For other fandoms:
- In the LOTR fandom, the Tenth Walker/"girl falls into Middle-earth" plot is overused. In fact, they've been parodied for over a decade. It's fading a bit now, but it's still there.
- For Harry Potter, there's the American exchange student fic.
- High school AUs are ridiculously common. I've encountered at least 30 for Sonic the Hedgehog alone.

One of the biggest fanfic annoyances IMO is the movie parody fic (more like movie ripoff fic, amirite?). Not all of them are bad, but some of them are just awful. I'm thinking of purging any that I might have added to my favorites on FF.net. I mean, every single one of them seems to be a parody of a Disney movie - never anything else (especially not something that isn't G-rated). If I had to write a parody, I'd do it with Precious: Based on the Novel Push by Sapphire. Now THAT would be so much better than a cloying tastes-like-diabetes Lion King "parody". (Look in the Cartoon X-overs section of FF.net. It's LOADED with this crap.)

Originally Posted by Feanor

One of the biggest fanfic annoyances IMO is the movie parody fic (more like movie ripoff fic, amirite?). Not all of them are bad, but some of them are just awful. I'm thinking of purging any that I might have added to my favorites on FF.net. I mean, every single one of them seems to be a parody of a Disney movie - never anything else (especially not something that isn't G-rated). If I had to write a parody, I'd do it with Precious: Based on the Novel Push by Sapphire. Now THAT would be so much better than a cloying tastes-like-diabetes Lion King "parody". (Look in the Cartoon X-overs section of FF.net. It's LOADED with this crap.)

Yeah, I'm with you on this. Though I see potential in it and I'm working on one based on RS. That is, one that tries to break the mold.

My top two peeve's, I'd have to say, are lack of depth in characters and originality.

The amount of two dimensional characterizations that I encounter is astounding. I appreciate the amount of work that is done on the story to make it unpredictable at least, but if the characters aren't interesting people then I'm sort of like, "meh."

And even then, the lack of originality in certain "categories" of fics kind of drives me bananas. That's why I think the best thing to do is sometimes take an opportunity to attempt to write a fic that doesn't fall into any of the categories (journey, shipping, dark etc.) and see what happens.

Most of the fanfiction I read is shipping fanfiction, and particularly for non-canon pairings (because with the canon ones, unless there's some aspect of their relationship that I wish the show had explored more, I usually feel like I'd rather just read/watch the original work again). So my complaints are specific to those.

One of the things that bothers me the most with these fics is when there's no build-up for the pairing. If the characters had no real romantic/sexual connection in the work - or if they have it, but there are a million and one reasons for them to keep it unresolved (such as shyness, obliviousness, etc.) - then you can't just have them jump at each other. Anyone who has ever written any kind of romantic storyline knows the secret is in the "will they or won't they?" moments. It's watching them realize their feelings, and then get together. Even ardent shippers of a particular pairing are going to feel left out in the cold if they don't get that in a story where there isn't that in the original canon.

The other pet peeve is how people deal with what TVTropes calls "Foe Yay" pairings - shipping two characters who are enemies or, at least, have a lot of animosity between them. Namely, there are two models for these types of romances, and I'll refer to them by the best literary examples of each. There's the "Beatrice and Benedick" version (from Shakespeare's Much Ado About Nothing), where their dislike is really just masked affection/sexual tension, and all they really need are some savvy friends to be like "Shut up and kiss already!" Then there is the "Lizzy and Darcy" version (from Pride and Prejudice, obviously), where the characters start out with some genuine conflict, even hatred, between them, that needs to be resolved before a relationship can form - most likely, both of them need to change as people before they can get together. Anyway, my big complaint is: Way, way, way, WAY too many people mistake the latter for the former. (Even with the works in question. Guys, Lizzy did NOT secretly love Darcy throughout the whole book. Hell, she even rebuffs the notion that "hatred is just playing hard-to-get" with Mr. Collins's proposal!) FoeYay wouldn't be nearly as hated or seen as cliche if more people understood this.

Also, people inserting their favorite bands or other modern pop-culture things into a universe where it makes no sense. For example, Fullmetal Alchemist is an alternate-universe version of 1910s Europe. They don't listen to emo bands. Or in Harry Potter - Ron Weasley doesn't even know what soccer is until Dean Thomas explains it to them. Why would they be listening to the same music or watching the same shows (wizarding families don't even have TVs) as their Muggle contemporaries?

Originally Posted by Cabaret

And even then, the lack of originality in certain "categories" of fics kind of drives me bananas. That's why I think the best thing to do is sometimes take an opportunity to attempt to write a fic that doesn't fall into any of the categories (journey, shipping, dark etc.) and see what happens.

Most likely your story will start to fall into one of those categories anyway. A story without an archetype has no recognizable content either.

Everybody thinks their story will break new ground; they are often disappointed to find out that the "new" ground was broken a long time ago, many times by many others.

When I evaluate Fanfiction, it's usually the same way as any other literary work. I don't think there is any complaint exclusive to Fanfiction other than straying too much from the source material, and that is just a personal gripe with any story.

In Pokémon for example, I get annoyed and it usually deters me when a new Pokémon is created for some story, or when a Canon Character strays too far from their main path. That character, and the entire universe, should end up at some point like they are in the TCG/Games/Anime/Manga, and completely disregarding that in any Fanfiction can be frustrating to me. I haven't read any of those, but a common problem I hear about is writers turning a character into an evil one, simply because they do not like them.

That's just my own biggest problem with Fanfiction; there are a few other aspects that irritate me, but I've been slowly shedding those.