Ron the Death Eater
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  1. #1
    Registered User zakisrage's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Ron the Death Eater

    Ron the Death Eater - Television Tropes & Idioms

    This is a common fanfiction cliche. It is when writers make a good character evil, or when an evil character is made a lot more evil.

    For example, say a person writes a Pokemon fanfic. They decided to use Misty, who is not an evil character at all. Then the fanfic they write prortays Misty as a sharp-tongued harpy who sadistically tortures Ash and Brock. It's a pretty common cliche, and it is quite infamous. For a bad character being more bad, it would be like turning jerkass Georgia into a serial killer. (The opposite of this trope is "Draco in Leather Pants", which is making an evil character good or less evil. An example of that would be portraying the incredibly cruel Ghetsis as a kind, caring individual.)

    Are you unintentionally guilty of using "Ron the Death Eater" in any of your fanfics? Or do you try to avoid it? (In an old fanfic I wrote in a notebook, which I have since gotten rid of, I portrayed Norman as a stuck-up jerk. I don't know why, and I think it was the worst thing that I ever wrote.)

    What are some examples of Ron the Death Eater you have seen in Pokemon fanfics?

  2. #2
    Let's get funky! Gama's Avatar Former Head Administrator
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    Default Re: Ron the Death Eater

    I didn't read the article because I'm about to go to bed and I don't want to get stuck in a TV Tropes spiral, but I got the gist of it from your post.

    I don't think I do things that extreme, but I find it really interesting to read and write unusual and different portrayals of a character... as long as they're believable.

    My first major fic on this site was called Rival's Story and it was RBYFRLG told from the perspective of the rival, Blue. In the story Blue was a sympathetic character (though he was still a bit of a jerk) and Red, being his rival, was generally a bit of a jerk, though as the story developed and snippets were told from his point of view, it became evident that he wasn't really that much of a jerk either - they just both went out of their way to be jerks to each other. In fact, quite a few of my fics and one shots feature canonical characters with a bit of a different spin on them.

    It's not really a Pokemon fanfic in the sense that I think you're asking (though it is basically fanfiction of the games) but the Pokemon Adventures manga does a really incredible job of this with Lt. Surge, Sabrina and Koga, who compose the Rocket Triad. I think that says all I need to say about it, but awesome, right? Definitely have a read if you get the chance.

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    Registered User zakisrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron the Death Eater

    I noticed that wealthy characters such as Steven Stone and Grimsley often get portrayed as snobs in fanfics. I find this bothersome - it's like implying that all rich people are snobbish, elitist "stiff upper lip" types. It bothers me because I used to be one of those people who hated anyone well-off, and I want to think now that I know better. Giving this treatment to Steven Stone is especially ridiculous because he is probably one of the nicest characters towards the player. I once got really pissed off by a fanfic that did that.

    Then again, other fandoms do this to rich characters too. Even if the character is snobbish in canon, it will be exaggerated in fanfics (for example, Rhonda from Hey Arnold is kinda stuck-up and very into fashion, but not extremely awful. Fanfics, however, often make her more like Regina George from Mean Girls).

    However, alternate character interpretation can be a good thing too. Today I read a fanfic of the original Karate Kid movie that provided Johnny (the villain) with a backstory that cast him in a more positive light than he is portrayed in the movie. I was actually very impressed by the author's writing skills and choice of character development.

    (NOTE: I'll let people talk about ANY fandom in this thread. It doesn't have to be just Pokemon.)

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    Requiem Raver Drakon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron the Death Eater

    One of the most common I've seen is from MLP:FiM where Celestia is portrayed as a tyrant, xenocidal conqueror (Conversion Bureau 'verse fics) or a sexual predator.

    In Pokémon, I did see a fic that portrayed Cynthia as a power-crazed murderous tyrant. In addition, there was a fic that portrayed Dawn as being a total jackass to the main character.

    ---------------

    BUT! I don't think this trope is inherently bad. After all, it is possible to make good stories where this trope is in full play. Though when you're doing this, you really have to have a good justification for this occurring.
    What are the Legendaries really like? Find out in The Life of the Legendaries

    Humans and pokémon no longer live in harmony. Hear their tales in The Poké Wars Chronicles: Tales From A World At War

    Cynthia once had it all: powerful pokémon, fame and hordes of adoring fans. But Ho-oh's campaign tears her life asunder. Now to survive this deadly new world, she must do the one thing that she never wanted: kill. Follow her trials through a world at war in Poké Wars: Downfall of a Champion

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    Registered User Caitlin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron the Death Eater

    The only really good usage I've seen of "Ron the Death Eater" is Tony Almeida from 24. For the first four seasons of the show, he was one of the good guys, fighting tooth and nail and using unconventional tactics to protect the country. His career is ruined in season three to protect his wife who was held hostage by the bad guy, and that's where things went downhill for him, leading to a divorce with his wife after he was convicted of treason. He rebounded in season four, but the pressures of the job and the rekindling of his marriage with his ex-wife led him to call it quits.

    Season five rolls around, and he's still a good guy, but his wife is assassinated (as is their unborn child). Nearly half of the people he worked with in the previous season are killed during the day. He literally has nothing left to live for: no wife, no job, a tainted reputation as a traitor, all of his friends and former coworkers (with the exception of three or four) are gone... All of that made for the perfect turning point to turn him into a villain in the show's seventh season, and I'm not sure if it could have been pulled off any better.

    "Ron the Death Eater" is a tricky subject to work with. You need a very delicately crafted story that spans for chapters/seasons that all leads up to why he/she turned into a villain. It had better be a damn good reason, too. It's something I avoid doing in everything I write, because I don't feel I can do it properly. That, and I love my good guys too much to turn them into villains.

    My real father lost his head at King's Landing. I made a choice, and I chose wrong. ~ Theon Greyjoy

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    Only 70 new Pokemon? Hoopa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron the Death Eater

    Tbh I dislike this trope being invoked in any fashion if it makes the character go OOC. I don't mind paul(MAJOR DRACO IN LEATHER PANTS CHAR IF I EVER SAW ONE) for example being a extra big douche to ash I wouldn't mind that since it's still IC. Turning dawn/iris into some slut/bimbo in order to make misty more appealing? no way.

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    Registered User zakisrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron the Death Eater

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakon View Post
    In Pokémon, I did see a fic that portrayed Cynthia as a power-crazed murderous tyrant.
    Did you read "Return of the Queen" on FF.net by any chance? I think that's the one with evil Cynthia. That is one of the worst things I've ever read.

    Grimsley gets this treatment a lot by fangirls on the sole basis that he is a Dark-type Trainer. Read "Darkest Night", where he is portrayed as a sexual predator. And Shauntal is often portrayed as his victim because the type she uses is weak to the one Grimsley uses. Shauntal gets portrayed as weak an awful lot - wimpification, maybe? And just because one Gym Leader or Elite Four member has a type advantage over another, doesn't mean they would torment them. You never see Elesa bullying Skyla in fanfics - at least, not the ones I've read.

    And why is it always Grimsley? Sidney doesn't get it often since the Hoenn Elite Four is fairly unpopular. Karen gets it occasionally since she is made slightly villainous in the manga, though I'd argue that's more justified since it was used in a canonical publication. Even the manga never gives Grimsley any diabolical traits. His fondness for gambling, which is only mentioned briefly, is the most negative they get, and even then it's never brought up in the games (maybe if Grimsley ever appears in the anime, they'll elaborate on it).

  8. #8

    Default Re: Ron the Death Eater

    Quote Originally Posted by zakisrage View Post
    Did you read "Return of the Queen" on FF.net by any chance? I think that's the one with evil Cynthia. That is one of the worst things I've ever read.
    Why, thank you.

    TV Tropes is where the people who get banned from Wikipedia go to make their points. In addition, TV Tropes itself makes it plain and clear that a Trope is NOT a bad thing or even a cliche. It's just something that occurs frequently in fiction.

    Cynthia, in the form Nintendo made her, is a flat-out Mary Sue, as are probably 75% of the characters in the Pokemon world. I chose to make my characters more dynamic. Cynthia actually started out as a reasonable human being in one of my older stories, she slowly became that way.

    Just because you don't like the way a character is portrayed doesn't mean it's a terrible story. Sabrina was portrayed four different ways in four different "canons" of the Pokemon world. It's proof that not every character must be put into a box.

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    CEO of the Monsters Lugion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron the Death Eater

    I don't think it's particularly fair to call Cynthia a Mary Sue... She's at least in her late 20s, and she's been the Champion for who knows how long. I'd think it's reasonable that she'd be as prepared as she is for things out of experience. She's like Dumbledore in that regard.

    But she definitely is bland in the games. But, then again, most characters are.

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    is obsessed with Noivern! Zekurom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron the Death Eater

    In Hero, I made Lance into a sadistic bastard that would rival Light Yagami in evil-ness and sociopathy. I regret nothing.

    (It apparently actually changed the perception of the Elite Four for some people to a Pokémon Special-kind of badness.)
    Last edited by Zekurom; 24th November 2012 at 09:35 PM.
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    #1 Gumshoe Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron the Death Eater

    In Pokemon GK I gleefully did this to a great many characters deliberately. Because, hey, my story.

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    Default Re: Ron the Death Eater

    Quote Originally Posted by Zekurom View Post
    In Hero, I made Lance into a sadistic bastard that would rival Light Yagami in evil-ness and sociopathy.

    I regret nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calliope View Post
    In Pokemon GK I gleefully did this to a great many characters deliberately. Because, hey, my story.
    You people are awesome. It's fun to change around characters and make them more than the one-dimensional people we see in the games. It adds a little spice.

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    Registered User zakisrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron the Death Eater

    There used to be a writer called Cori Falls who portrayed Jessie as a wimp and James as her lovey-dovey boy toy. But the real vilification was Ash, who was made into a bastard, and Jessiebelle, who was made into a complete monster. Cori basically makes us want Jessiebelle to die when she's crying and begging for help before Team Rocket murders her. And Ash gets described as being pig-like repeatedly.

    Cori Falls - Television Tropes & Idioms

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    Ambitiose sed Ineptum Plumbum's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ron the Death Eater

    Well, in a fanfic I might be about to write, I make Rayquaza into a treacherous, backstabbing arse. Since it's role in-universe is to stop the fighting of Groudon and Kyogre if it happens, I suppose that counts.
    Last edited by Plumbum; 5th December 2012 at 08:40 AM.

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Ron the Death Eater

    Quote Originally Posted by zakisrage View Post
    There used to be a writer called Cori Falls who portrayed Jessie as a wimp and James as her lovey-dovey boy toy. But the real vilification was Ash, who was made into a bastard, and Jessiebelle, who was made into a complete monster. Cori basically makes us want Jessiebelle to die when she's crying and begging for help before Team Rocket murders her. And Ash gets described as being pig-like repeatedly.

    Cori Falls - Television Tropes & Idioms
    Every fanfic writer should wish they were that famous, to get that much attention to their fanfics and characters. In my opinion, Cori Falls wins. (Besides, Ash is a pig!)

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