Question: When a knight/samurai being inferior...

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Thread: Question: When a knight/samurai being inferior...

  1. #1
    Legendary Pokemon クリスタル's Avatar
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    Default Question: When a knight/samurai being inferior...

    The knight of medieval western culture and the samurai of old feudal Japan were known to have very high pride and self-esteem, sometimes they put their pride even higher than their life, and may even die to protect their own self-esteem.

    I do not quite understand this kind of attitude, so sometimes I cannot image how they will feel or think in the situation where they become "inferior". Example of such situations are:
    1. Defeated by their enemy.
    2. Become captive of their enemy.
    3. Saved by the ordinary civilian on the street when they are injured.
    4. Some unknown ordinary civilian engage in battle/fight/war in place of them.
    5. Borrow the power of ordinary civilian in battle/fight/war.
    6. Lay off by their superior (whatever reason, from being useless to being injured).

    I'm asking this because of my current fanfic I'm working on. Please discuss and give me some suggestion if possible.
    "人には知らない世界はそこに存在する、そして人には知らない冒険はそこ に始まってる"
    Chapter 1: 謎の世界の生き物、闘うトレーナーたち
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    Lighting Things on Fire Sarcastically Insane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question: When a knight/samurai being inferior...

    It's all a question of honor, the? I'm pretty sure chivalry (the knights' code, I'm not too knowledgeable on the way of bushido) is about fair fights and helping those who don't have as much power (physically, monetarily, etc.) as you. Killing oneself was a big, BIG no-no. If you were fired, then that usually meant you had already been disgraced; i.e., your disgrace was the reason you were 'fired'. However, if your lord fell and you survived, you became a free lance, who would generally just wander around until someone else hired him.
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    Currently writing Hoenn Wars, a Travelsverse fic that needs no prior Travelsverse knowledge to understand. Chapter Seven, Sacrifice, is up.



    That's interesting; I might have a look when I have the time. Thanks!

    EDIT: Oh my god, these are too many links! Very specific...
    ^Someone's first impression of TVTropes.

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    Legendary Pokemon クリスタル's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question: When a knight/samurai being inferior...

    It is not about honour, but the concern of self-esteem. There is a difference between honour and pride/self-esteem.

    Honour is more of a physical praise received from someone else other than yourself when you did something big, which is related to one's social states in a community. But pride is more of a mental attitude and/or emotion in one's own mind.

    Honour can be a source of one's pride, but actually they have no direct relation between each other. You can be proud of your honours, you can be proud of your achievements, or you can simply be proud of being yourself.

    Also, pride/self-esteem has no direct relation to code of chivalry and/or bushido either. These codes are simply a list of conduct/behaviour/manner/demeanor what to expected from a knight/samurai. It has no relation into one's emotion.

    So, just understand: Pride/Self-esteem is an emotion, and it is a very complex one.
    "人には知らない世界はそこに存在する、そして人には知らない冒険はそこ に始まってる"
    Chapter 1: 謎の世界の生き物、闘うトレーナーたち
    MY PROFILE | AUTHOR'S PROFILE | PIXIV PROFILE

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    Lighting Things on Fire Sarcastically Insane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question: When a knight/samurai being inferior...

    But these warriors derive their pride, and, occasionally, their justification for living from these codes that they uphold. That's what I meant.
    Currently writing Hoenn Wars, a Travelsverse fic that needs no prior Travelsverse knowledge to understand. Chapter Seven, Sacrifice, is up.



    That's interesting; I might have a look when I have the time. Thanks!

    EDIT: Oh my god, these are too many links! Very specific...
    ^Someone's first impression of TVTropes.

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    Default Re: Question: When a knight/samurai being inferior...

    Well, if a samurai is your main character and he considers himself "inferior", you'd have to end the fic.

    Most disgraced or captured samurai drove their favorite sword into their guts and twirl it around to ensure their deaths, so that they could escape a disgraceful death that would harm their country's, family's, shogun's, or their own honor.
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    Default Re: Question: When a knight/samurai being inferior...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcastically Insane View Post
    It's all a question of honor, the? I'm pretty sure chivalry (the knights' code, I'm not too knowledgeable on the way of bushido) is about fair fights and helping those who don't have as much power (physically, monetarily, etc.) as you. Killing oneself was a big, BIG no-no. If you were fired, then that usually meant you had already been disgraced; i.e., your disgrace was the reason you were 'fired'. However, if your lord fell and you survived, you became a free lance, who would generally just wander around until someone else hired him.
    Bushido dictated that if you were disgraced, you had to kill yourself (and show no emotion whilst doing so). But yes, chivalry and bushido both said that you could not fight an opponent that was incapable of defending themselves or was unarmed.

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    *rules with cotton fist* Kayi-chan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question: When a knight/samurai being inferior...

    Quote Originally Posted by NAC.Crystal View Post
    1. Defeated by their enemy.
    2. Become captive of their enemy.
    3. Saved by the ordinary civilian on the street when they are injured.
    4. Some unknown ordinary civilian engage in battle/fight/war in place of them.
    5. Borrow the power of ordinary civilian in battle/fight/war.
    6. Lay off by their superior (whatever reason, from being useless to being injured).
    1. Their pride would force them to kill themselves (samurai), or to seek revenge (knights).
    2. Their pride would force them to kill themselves (samurai), or to escape and take revenge if possible (knights).
    3. Their pride would make them be indebted to that person, regardless of social standing (both).
    4. Their pride would make them go to their superior and do some sort of silent protest, such as cutting their hair or dulling their blades (samurai), or to accept it wasn't their time and/or attempt to go to war anyways on their own (knights).
    5. See 3, but with less debt accumulated (both).
    6. Their pride would force them to kill themselves (samurai), or to rebel and start their own campaigns or even get allied to the enemy (knights).

    ...the samurai seem to love ending their lives, according to their codes. Of course, those codes were first seen until WWII, to motivate the army to give it all or die in the attempt. Knights, meanwhile, are more likely to backstab instead of ending their lives, as their Christianity-derived religion forbids suicide.

    2010/08/02: 4th chapter

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