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  1. #16
    Reader and Writer Legacy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainers Starting After Age Ten = Mary-Sue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zekürom View Post
    It's always Farla, isn't it >_>

    But that's not really a Mary Sue comment. It's more of an "OMG YOU'RE BREAKING CANON PUT YOUR TRAINER BACK AT AGE TEN WHERE HE/SHE BELONGS" thing. I had a person complain about the ten-years-old thing (well, less of a complaint and more of a really long comment on why it should be ten) but it was less about breaking canon and more about keeping age requirements consistent. I have Rachel lampshade the fact that the minimum age is 10, and yet she starts out at 11 with no reason for it whatsoever.

    It's comments like these that make me think that she's trying to boss everybody around. Either that, or she's starting to get sloppy with her reviews.
    Farla! I had her comment on TPI on ff.net, telling me that it showed lack of intelligence and poor grammar to refer to Pokemon as 'Pokemon' with the capital 'P.' She basically talked down to me saying, "You wouldn't refer to the word, 'animal' with a capital 'A' so you shouldn't do it with Pokemon."

    I actually caved at first, but then reverted to my old way.

    As for the age thing, I don't get why they have to be ten even if you are a stickler for the canon way of doing things. In the canon world, if you as a trainer don't start exactly on your 10th birthday, are you then just shit out of luck and can't be a trainer? I can think of a million legit circumstances where a trainer might start their journey later.

    I seriously don't even understand the argument for a trainer needing to be 10.

  2. #17
    is obsessed with Noivern! Zekurom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainers Starting After Age Ten = Mary-Sue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kayi-chan View Post
    Still, from my experience, a girl OC is more likely to get labeled a Sue than a boy OC a Stu (or a Sue *LOLs*)
    Yeah, yeah, sosumi, I call a boy a Mary Sue too >_>

    I've had comments that Rachel shows Mary Sue tendencies (mostly due to her ability to talk to any Pokémon instead of just the ones she's bonded to; my explanation that she has Pokémon blood in her [specifically, a Lugia's, but I didn't tell her that] just made it worse in my own opinion, but not in the commenter's >_>), but for some reason, Ken and Hikaru seem to be perfectly okay

    And actually, until very recently, the sole idea of labeling a boy OC a Stu/Sue was unthinkable, because, you know, double standards the traditional Sue was a lady with very specific characteristics that couldn't possibly apply to a male at all. It wasn't until the corruption of the term Mary Sue started happening that we were able to begin pointing fingers at the guys too.
    What was the traditional Sue, anyway?

    ...and then all went to hell as the Sue and Stu terms were overused in the wrong way. Neither term means anything anymore.
    Well, just like the terms "gay" and "dumb", they've evolved to mean different things. Now, "Mary Sue" can mean any "imbalanced" or "perfect" character.

    Yeah, I was going to say the same (haven't heard good things of Farla, more than actually knowing her; "your reputation precedes you," indeed...)
    I've actually talked to her before. Some of her reviews are perfectly acceptable, but the common ones are the ones that aren't.

    But yes, her reputation precedes her indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legacy View Post
    Farla! I had her comment on TPI on ff.net, telling me that it showed lack of intelligence and poor grammar to refer to Pokemon as 'Pokemon' with the capital 'P.' She basically talked down to me saying, "You wouldn't refer to the word, 'animal' with a capital 'A' so you shouldn't do it with Pokemon."
    Yeah, I heard that too. That's the whole reason I started the capitalization convention thread - before Farla, I never knew of anybody who actually left the names in lowercase because they thought it was good grammar.

    Her username left a permanent bad taste in my brain - now, every time I read a word that sounds like her name, my mind automatically jolts me >_>

    (Stuff like people with the last name of McFarlane, any word that rhymes with "-arla", etc.)

    I actually caved at first, but then reverted to my old way.
    As I can see from your posts on the capitalization convention thread.

    Actually, I'm thinking of inviting her here, just to see how she'd try and rip apart the stories here. Would that be an acceptable or horrible idea?

    As for the age thing, I don't get why they have to be ten even if you are a stickler for the canon way of doing things. In the canon world, if you as a trainer don't start exactly on your 10th birthday, are you then just shit out of luck and can't be a trainer? I can think of a million legit circumstances where a trainer might start their journey later.
    No, you just have to start sometime when you're 10.

    Traditionally, you'd start in April, I believe. At least that's the convention I set down in Generation 2021. Trainers begin in April because it lines up nicely with the school year, and also because it's the spring - the time of new beginnings. I explain it in a blurb on Chapter 52 (spoilers ahoy! ) as a convention set way back when Pokémon training was in its infancy and there was no modern technology (i.e. sometime around 1350 CE).

    I seriously don't even understand the argument for a trainer needing to be 10.
    "Because it's canon". But it's also canon to capitalize Pokémon names. Even in those little children's reading books that are like nine years old now. The books, not the children.
    Last edited by Zekurom; 18th February 2011 at 01:10 PM.
    The word "quadragonal" is the only word with "dragon" in it where "dragon" is not a root word. That makes it awesome.

  3. #18
    ◓Gypsy Vanner Horse Kyuuketsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainers Starting After Age Ten = Mary-Sue?

    In the canon, people did start their journey before 10, just look at the Kindergarten class. And now I'm tempted to join Fanfiction.com and post stories there...

  4. #19
    Reader and Writer Legacy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainers Starting After Age Ten = Mary-Sue?

    ff.net is a cool pretty cool forum to post stories on. I find that I get A LOT of reviews/viewers which is always nice... now I don't know if that's just because my fic was an anime-based mary-sue-fest with Ash, but haha who knows?

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    ◓Gypsy Vanner Horse Kyuuketsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainers Starting After Age Ten = Mary-Sue?

    But I don't think "Mary Sue" applies to people just because they started after the age of 10, which I believe is the case with your story (though not sure)...

  6. #21
    Moderator AceTrainer14's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Trainers Starting After Age Ten = Mary-Sue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kayi-chan View Post
    Let them think what they will; the Mary Sue label is so wrongly used, it no longer counts as anything of worth (that is, pay them no mind )
    I must agree with this statement. Mary Sue's have become a bit of a cliche now these days: people call practically every single character that may have magical powers or is destined for greatness a Mary Sue so much that it has lost all meaning. While there are true Mary Sue's out there *cough*BellaSwan*cough*, not every character is a Mary Sue and shouldnt be labelled as such.

    Personally, just write what you want to write about and dont give a damn about one person saying your character is a Sue or a Stu. I also find that BMGers are much kinder in reviews, so just stick to here then :P

    ^^^^ The GalacticVerse Bibliography (Thanks to Blazaking for Banner) ^^^^

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    is obsessed with Noivern! Zekurom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainers Starting After Age Ten = Mary-Sue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuuketsuki View Post
    In the canon, people did start their journey before 10, just look at the Kindergarten class. And now I'm tempted to join Fanfiction.com and post stories there...
    Who supports having a Bulbagarden fanfiction community on FF.net?

    But that's starting to get off-topic. I'll put a thread up in the Development Forum about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legacy View Post
    ff.net is a cool pretty cool forum to post stories on. I find that I get A LOT of reviews/viewers which is always nice... now I don't know if that's just because my fic was an anime-based mary-sue-fest with Ash, but haha who knows?
    That used to be true about Generation 2021, but the past 3 chapters have been review-less, pretty much >_>
    The word "quadragonal" is the only word with "dragon" in it where "dragon" is not a root word. That makes it awesome.

  8. #23
    ◓Gypsy Vanner Horse Kyuuketsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainers Starting After Age Ten = Mary-Sue?

    Quote Originally Posted by AceTrainer14 View Post
    I must agree with this statement. Mary Sue's have become a bit of a cliche now these days: people call practically every single character that may have magical powers or is destined for greatness a Mary Sue so much that it has lost all meaning. While there are true Mary Sue's out there *cough*BellaSwan*cough*, not every character is a Mary Sue and shouldnt be labelled as such.
    That would be understandable if no one else had magical powers; though they have to have something to become the main character. And relating to that, how does one that starts after the age of 10 (or before) a Mary Sue if there are many of them? That just makes the main character common. It's very rarely that you find fan-fiction in which the character starts at 10. Going by that rule, isn't the character that starts at 10, which is rare in fan-fiction, a Mary Sure?

    My logic just broke all the counter-arguments. By the way, I understand what you're saying AceTrainer14, I just wanted to base what I typed on something.

  9. #24
    Moderator AceTrainer14's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Trainers Starting After Age Ten = Mary-Sue?

    Excellent point there Kyuu! I think that having a ten year old or so character could work with older characters (like in my upcoming Unova series). But really, it is very Mary Sueish to use a 10 year old against some crime fighting geniuses

    ^^^^ The GalacticVerse Bibliography (Thanks to Blazaking for Banner) ^^^^

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    ◓Gypsy Vanner Horse Kyuuketsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainers Starting After Age Ten = Mary-Sue?

    Just thought of something else. The character could still be a Mary Sue if they start out late yet everyone else starts out early in the story. If the world revolved around the character (any age), they could still be a Mary Sue. Examples:

    Trainer A started his journey at 10, yet everyone else will start at 13. Trainer A manages to save the entire world on his own.

    Trainer B started out when she was 16, while everyone else started out at 10. She managed to do in a few months what all the others couldn't do in 6 years before she came along.

    Trainer C starts out with everyone else. They make him their leader right off the bat and follow him.

    Trainer D starts out with everyone else. But they all reject her, so she proves them wrong by becoming the trainer that can't be defeated. (This will only be a Mary Sue if she becomes the best quickly and not make mistakes).

  11. #26
    CEO of the Monsters Lugion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainers Starting After Age Ten = Mary-Sue?

    Yeah, Farla gave the first chapter of Stainless Steel a rather scathing review as well.

    Speaking of which, Steven is yet to be accused of Mary Sue-dom, and he's almost sixteen in the story.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Trainers Starting After Age Ten = Mary-Sue?

    In my upcoming fanfic, Pokemon Adventures: Black & White, I plan to have the main character and her rivals start their journey at thirteen years of age.

    In my fanon, I have Unova allow only 13 year olds and up to become trainers due to the nation's law. It's my way of showing how distant from Kanto, Johto, Hoenn and Sinnoh Unova is. Hey, different nation, different laws.

  13. #28
    is obsessed with Noivern! Zekurom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainers Starting After Age Ten = Mary-Sue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugion View Post
    Speaking of which, Steven is yet to be accused of Mary Sue-dom, and he's almost sixteen in the story.
    Probably because he has an excuse, and he's a canon character. We'll never know.
    The word "quadragonal" is the only word with "dragon" in it where "dragon" is not a root word. That makes it awesome.

  14. #29
    Surrender now or carry on Bikini Miltank's Avatar Bulbanews Editor-in-Chief
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    Default Re: Trainers Starting After Age Ten = Mary-Sue?

    The "ten years old" thing was an invention of the anime, I believe... and what's more, the anime gives us a heap of exceptions. Remember the middle-aged businessman with the Skuntank who'd just recently started his journey?

    There are plenty of valid reasons for having an older character in your story, not least of which is that any romantic plot threads are going to be downright bizarre if the protagonist is ten.

  15. #30
    is obsessed with Noivern! Zekurom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainers Starting After Age Ten = Mary-Sue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikini Miltank View Post
    The "ten years old" thing was an invention of the anime, I believe... and what's more, the anime gives us a heap of exceptions. Remember the middle-aged businessman with the Skuntank who'd just recently started his journey?
    Personally, I think that's pretty creepy. >_>
    The word "quadragonal" is the only word with "dragon" in it where "dragon" is not a root word. That makes it awesome.

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