Official Mary Sue Thread

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Originally Posted by PokeFamily

I'm kind of curious about what anyone has to say about flaws.

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It's not necessarily the lack of flaws that makes a character a Sue. A character with absolutely no flaws is usually one (but not always), but you only have to look at the definitions for Jerk Sue, Anti Sue and Villain Sue to realize that even a character with flaws can be a Mary Sue.

It has more to do with how the writer deal with those flaws. If the flaws don't cost anything to the character, aren't detrimental to the character and the other characters never call him/her out on them, then that's a pretty good Sue sign.

Like if a character is hot-headed and loses his temper easily, and that causes one of his pokémon to run away and stop trusting him, or one of his travelling companion to get into an argument with this character and later join with the villain, then it's not a Sue. If the character is jerk who despises all his pokémon and travelling companions, constantly berates them and yet, they all either want to bang that character or they worship the ground that character walks on, then it's probably a Sue.

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Originally Posted by Hellion

If the character is jerk who despises all his pokémon and travelling companions, constantly berates them and yet, they all either want to bang that character or they worship the ground that character walks on, then it's probably a Sue.

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Such a character can actually exist in real life, but they'd have to have a lot of stuff going for them to cover up for it. And they're definitely not worshipped because of their jerkiness.

I've never finished such a story, but any trainer fic I've ever started writing uses my personal bit of fanon that your have to be 16 to get a Pokemon license. But I always make sure to give the character a realistic personality and make them not exactly the best battler in the world. Not writing a Mary Sue is not writing a Mary Sue. Pigeonholing an OC protagonist to that one age can mess up with stuff more than help it, if you ask me.

In my fic (Pokemon Adventures: Diamond & Pearl), the main trainers are educated at home by their parents and themselves as soon as they learn how to talk and walk properly to explain the lack of a school system in the Pokemon world.

To become a trainer, one must start studying the basics at age nine so that they can be ready when they turn ten. At ten years of age, they can register to become a trainer when they receive approval from their region's Pokemon Professor. To gain approval from the Professor, you must battle him in a test to see if you really do know the basics of being a Pokemon Trainer and are able to go on your own journey to improve your skills and pump up your Pokemon while adding new ones to your team.

After said battle, you are given a Pokedex containing your identification as a trainer and data on Pokemon you might run into and on your way through your home-region.

So in my fanon, you have to meet certain requirements to become a trainer. This way I can make the characters smart and resourceful but not too much that they become Mar(t)y Sues at a ridiculous level.

Mind may I ask a stupid question?

What is Mary Sue?

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Originally Posted by NAC.Crystal

Mind may I ask a stupid question?

What is Mary Sue?

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It's a term for a character you have created that generally is really boring, or they follow a formula.

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Originally Posted by NAC.Crystal

Mind may I ask a stupid question?

What is Mary Sue?

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The exact definition is debated (as seen here), but a decent summary can be found here.

To me, a Mary Sue is someone who is perfect, invulnerable and hijacks the story.

I may be alone in my dislike of ten being the "official" starting age. As anyone who's worked with ten-year-olds can agree, they're not very worldly. It's biological. Humans aren't designed to leave home until they're mature, which can be anywhere from 16-20. Any age before that just seems wrong.

No, I don't think trainers starting after the age of 10 constitutes a Mary Sue. I think it's realistic. No sane parent will send a ten-year-old boy out into the world with a dangerous animal because it's his life long dream. I can imagine League-run summer camps for kids hoping to become trainers, but sending ten-year-olds off into the wild does not seem realistic at all. Trust me, my mom wasn't very happy when I wanted to be a pirate instead of going to school at age ten.

Ten years old does seem a rather reasonable age to allow someone to own a Pokémon. I don't think the League would allow the ten-year-olds to actually start their journey then, however. If you're still reading this post, good for you. You get a cookie. I also think the League would place limits on their journey- the trainer must travel with an adult, the trainer must report to a Pokémon Center or another marked location every day for curfew, and so on.

In my opinion, a better starting age is sixteen, but a later age is still realistic.

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Originally Posted by GIROG

In my opinion, a better starting age is sixteen, but a later age is still realistic.

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I think 13 is pretty good, but most of my trainers still start at 10 >_<

But you have to remember that Pokémon isn't like the real world. It may be dangerous, but it is still pretty safe for a child.

Personally, I think 16-20 is more realistic, but the world of Pokemon is different than ours. Things are probably a lot safer for a ten year old when they are friends with a fire breathing lizard or a rodent that can electrocute anything that comes near. I don't see why a trainer beginning after 10 is a Mary Sue though, whoever made that accusation doesn't even have a remote idea of what a Mary Sue is. Age doesn't matter.

After I had red some definitions of the term Mary Sue, I'm now getting the point.

But I want to ask, is it such a bad idea to have a Mary Sue protagonist?

My very first Pokemon fanfic really has a protagonist like that. The protagonist is female, start off her journey at age of 10, has an affectionate character, and has a dramatic background that led her to start off journey at this early age of life. Also the events in the fic often centralise around her because she has a very special ability that no body has.
Though in my point of view, and also show quite often in the story, she is not "perfect". She does has an affectionate character where she could even friend with wild Pokemon that was antagonistic previously, but unexpectedly she get upset quite easily, especially forced by the thing she dislike or get irritated by someone else. She has quite active to take action, which often then causes her to be in troublesome situation.

But I mean, was it that bad for a 10 years old Mary Sue to exist in the fanfic? I just don't understand why.

If you think back a little, what YOU were doing and thinking when YOU were at the age of 10?
For me, I was still at primary school Std.4 when I'm at the age of 10. But because I was migrated to a different country at the age of 9, that change of environment really trains and turn my thinking pattern to a more mature one. Just because at the very beginning of my migration, I don't have friend, and neither my parent can help me with the problems of cultural difference. I do all the best on my own, so I felt that my thinking pattern has went more mature than other that didn't went through the same incident.

So, from my point of view, it is possible that you have a kid which his/her body age is 10, but his/her brain is at 14.
Moreover, as I mentioned previously, the protagonist of my fanfic had a dramatic background, which really causes her to think more differently from others who don't have such dramatic background.

In any case, I don't oppose Mary Sue character, I don't see the reason why objecting it.

That is one of the points we are discussing: Is Mary Sue bad?

They do have a lot of bad traits, but also some good ones.

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Originally Posted by NAC.Crystal

In any case, I don't oppose Mary Sue character, I don't see the reason why people object to it.

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I guess it's more because the Mary Sue is more often than not an "ego" or "wish fulfilment" character that the author solely writes to imagine him- or herself in that situation that people dislike it.