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That would be my definition too. A perfect character is not always a Mary Sue - there can be characters who are all of those desirable traits that still get into trouble, or are still treated indifferently by their peers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuuketsuki
Basically a Mary Sue is a character that nobody can be (or is) neutral to. They are either blatantly supportive of or vehemently against that character.
As of this post, I declare this to be the Official Thread for discussing Mary Sue issues. All Mary Sue discussions must be moved here.
I will be more than happy to address Mary Sues/Gary Stus in the Worldbuilding Guide, as well.
That could be interesting to include, but I think we should come to a common ground first about what a "Mary Sue" is.
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Originally Posted by Kyuuketsuki
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Originally Posted by Tsutarja
As you can see... We don't even agree on what a Mary Sue is... Which is why I created this thread; to actually have one definition for a Mary Sue that is made up of all the definitions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zekürom
To me a Mary Sue is a character by whom readers are turned off because of his or her overly "perfect" nature. A character who is not like an actual believable person because of the lack of human flaws, etc.
Someone who is more or less loved by all the supporting characters except the antagonist... and only hated by his enemies because the plot says they have to. A real person has people in the world that don't like him or her because of their personality, looks, other factors... a Mary Sue does not have enemies except for the predetermined ones that the plot requires.
Basically, a Mary Sue to me is a character that is too "perfect."
To me, a Mary Sue is a character that's loved by anyone; never jealous of other people, but gets envied. The people who are jealous of her are shown in a negative light, and then would see the error of their ways and fall in love with Mary Sue. Pokemon Mary Sue is a 10-16 year old trainer who conquers the league easily, and with one loss to some champion, they become a sobbing pile of tears and angst, before getting a massive powerup and pwning the one who barely pwned them. The pwn'd realises that they're no match for the powerful Mary Sue and congratulates Mary Sue after a series of shocks, which Mary Sue brushes off with a thank you. Mary Sue's story ends with her holding up the Champion's Trophy and accepts the cute, nice, and hopelessly in love-love interest of Mary Sue and they kiss, and lives happily ever after.
But Mary Sue also has a twin; Mari Sue is an angsty character who had an abusive past and hates humanity but saves the day anyway. Mari Sue grew up in an orphanage which hated her because she was so beautiful and special. The Orphanage is shown as BAAADDDDD no matter what. Mari Sue may have been randomly raped, explaining another point of her BAWWWWW-ness. Mari Sue will angst about all of that. But then Mari Sue meets a mysterious and handsome boy who she's drawn to, then angst about love. She then will write world class poetry which everyone would like. Mari Sue becomes the Top-Trainer-Of-The-World and marries the handsome boy in some anti-climax and Mari Sue finally accepts humanity but is still traumatised. Mari Sue will appear in her sequel: The Pain of Mari Sue.
Then we have Marry Sue, the impossibly pure-pure girl who everyone loves no matter what. She's a princess who grew up as a maid but thanks to her magical 16th Birthday her Prince Charming, Champion of Kanto, Prince Red, saves her and marries her. She's now queen of Kanto.
Now, we have Maroon Sue, she's just like the female Red. She dresses like Red. She falls in love with Red and on their wedding day, they have sexy sex like Red.
And there's Marie Sue, Ruby was being abused by Sapphire so Marie Sue steps in and makes Ruby see how much of a bitch Sapphire is, dump her, and marries Marie.
We can't forget Mary Sui! The world revolves around her! Catching Arceus for no apparent reason? She's done it! The leader of some ancient Prophecy? That's her! World class Coordinator? Yeup, she's the one. People fighting for her love? Bet your balls on it. She's the black hole which sucks everything around her up.
Mary Sue has a LOT of sisters and cousins, not to mention brothers!
Interesting definitions of Mary Sue, but still. Is it a good or a bad thing to have a Mary Sue?
Having a Mary Sue as a main character would be facepalm worthy for the readers. No, a Mary Sue is a poorly written character. They're not perfect. They're poorly written. Shallow, 2D, with no redeeming featuresQuote:
Originally Posted by Kyuuketsuki
But as a side character? Or maybe a character that only appears in one scene.
If it's a character who only appears once, they're pretty much a mary sue already if you have no time or plan to give them character development.
So your definition is a character that doesn't get character development? Wouldn't that make a lot of characters a Mary Sue? And this still begs the question, is it bad or good?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuutakeshi
How can they have any flaws if they have no character?
Albus Dumbledore was a Gary Stu but he was an epic character.
Do they have to have flaws if they will only appear briefly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuutakeshi
a flat, static character is not a mary sue. mary sues can be very developed characters - e.g., the sympathetic sue, whose backstory is tragic and has shaped them as a person, but who are still idealized and held in higher regard than other characters for irrational reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuutakeshi