The line between a Mary Sue and a great character and the risks - Page 2

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 32
Like Tree2Likes

Thread: The line between a Mary Sue and a great character and the risks

  1. #16
    Reality is a dream TheLlama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Bergen, Norway
    Posts
    372

    Default Re: The line between a Mary Sue and a great character and the risks

    So my main character is reasonably intelligent, good at reading people, a decent battler and generally has received the goods of life in a basket from God.

    What will, in my eyes, avoid making her a Sue is the fact that she still has struggles. Being new to pokemon training obviously means talent's only gonna get her so far. She has her convoluted reasons for doing what she does and they will be a driving force throughout the story - also, she's got some real personal issues on the side. Her starter pokemon isn't cut out for battling either, which is one momentum of the personal struggle side (but by no means an actual handicap to her battling strength; "she's strong but her pokemon sucks" would be too plain a reason - after all, she catches other pokemon, and she knows what she's doing when looking for strong ones). She also experiences issues with other people; the ups and downs of relationships gets to even the most socially and emotionally intelligent and mature of people, and that will be an important part of the story. Moreover, her opposition is more than strong enough for her - actually, she doesn't really stand a chance against the bad guys because, well, they are experienced and she is not. There's no way a rookie trainer could beat an experienced adult unless the latter used pokemon of lower quality than the rookie, that's just fact.

    There's also a character on the good guy side who's strong enough to thrash a champion like they were, well, trash, whose strength is capably justified both through talents, battling experience and several personal reasons leading to the required drive and motivation to become someone like that.

    So basically, make them have issues, struggles - they don't have to be flaws as much as they are emotions - real emotions, relatable emotions; emotions that makes sense within the context of the story, their personal story and their person. Not some cheap flaw or obviously contrived emotional issues; pick something you could relate to. Try and see them as a real person.
    "People like you and me overcame the Neanderthals. People like you and me overcame the Ice Age"

    "You can hold [the brain] in the palm of your hands - and it can contemplate the vastness of interstellar space"

    "Along some paths of cosmic discovery there are times when, at least for now, one must be content to love the questions themselves"

    The Symphony of Science; a tribute to the marvels of science and nature.


  2. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,852
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: The line between a Mary Sue and a great character and the risks

    Quote Originally Posted by Llama_Guy View Post
    Moreover, her opposition is more than strong enough for her - actually, she doesn't really stand a chance against the bad guys because, well, they are experienced and she is not. There's no way a rookie trainer could beat an experienced adult unless the latter used pokemon of lower quality than the rookie, that's just fact.
    I'd love to explain how I intend to do something more along the lines of the opposite where Hilda, her Pokemon and friends/acquaintances do hold their own against Team Plasma but my justifications might end up spoiling the whole dang series and a twist I was going build up to. I only hope that the actual story and it's explanations for why are viable. I'm afraid I can only tell you so much here so bear with me.

  3. #18
    Reality is a dream TheLlama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Bergen, Norway
    Posts
    372

    Default Re: The line between a Mary Sue and a great character and the risks

    I can further discuss it if you send me a PM (I don't really care about spoilers).
    "People like you and me overcame the Neanderthals. People like you and me overcame the Ice Age"

    "You can hold [the brain] in the palm of your hands - and it can contemplate the vastness of interstellar space"

    "Along some paths of cosmic discovery there are times when, at least for now, one must be content to love the questions themselves"

    The Symphony of Science; a tribute to the marvels of science and nature.


  4. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,852
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: The line between a Mary Sue and a great character and the risks

    Quote Originally Posted by Llama_Guy View Post
    I can further discuss it if you send me a PM (I don't really care about spoilers).
    Are you sure? If yes, then you better keep them secret yourself.

  5. #20
    Wordsmith unrepentantAuthor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Gender
    Genderless
    Location
    United Kingdom/Hoenn
    Posts
    262

    Default Re: The line between a Mary Sue and a great character and the risks

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    For my BW fic, I intend to write Hilda as a 14 year old girl who's a true protege at Pokemon training and can really kick ass without a Pokemon. Before the series began, she would rigorously train with her mother's help to always be strong and physically fit so when out in Unova, she can take care of herself. She's an outdoorsy tomboy who would go to the forest to camp out or even train to be a real survivalist in case she gets lost as a Trainer. She loves Pokemon and can even communicate with them (in contrast with N as shown in the story), making a few forest friends she often plays with. She does have friends like Cheren and Bianca and also enjoys other stuff people normally do. She can be playful and childish when in a good mood but when the situation calls for it like when dealing with Team Plasma or in any other battle, she become a serious and strategic contender who thinks quick and holds nothing back. She's nicknamed The Battle Maiden because of this and her birth name having the exact meaning. She's also an explorer whose curiosity often lands her in trouble but she manages to get out which she considers part of the fun. She's also sweet and compassionate and prone to hugging the hell out of anything cute (just ask her Oshawott). Of course, she's not infallible and can make a few mistakes and oversights here and there. Her heroic nature makes her reckless like when she actually goes to get her Oshawott back from Team Plasma mostly with a Pidove she caught on her own (she already knew it personally though) and her own manpower but her wits allowed her to succeed in saving her starter.

    Now I'm quite confident in this character. I won't self-proclaim that she's "great" but I'm sure that readers with not at all see her as a Mary Sue as far as I'm concerned since she'll have a tough time getting to the top. But, my characters aside, it makes me wonder about the fine line between an "amazing, well-rounded, badass" character and a "dull, perfect, contrived" Mary Sue. I've gone around hearing "they gotta have flaws or else they're a Sue" and such that I was once afraid that my protagonist would be ripped apart due to all of the above. But I'm now confident that if I give her a shot, things might not be (so) bad. All the same, I have to ask about this difference I've come to be aware of.
    This is a very difficult post for me to respond to. You're obviously recognisant of Mary Sues to an acceptable extent, and it's entirely possible to write this character without her being a Sue. However, there is sufficient basis in your description to suspect she is or could easily become a Sue. It is true, first of all, that Hilda is exceptional. Secondly, that she has no real flaws. Thirdly, that her persona is not well defined. Fourthly, that her struggles do not indicate personal development.

    -Hilda is fourteen. It is believable that she could handle herself in the wild for a few days with supplies, but being a full-on survivalist is near impossible. You call her a protege: "A person who is guided and supported by an older and more experienced person or mentor." I think you meant to call her a prodigy: "An extremely talented person, especially a child." In any case, being a prodigy does veer towards being uninterestingly good. Kicking ass without a pokémon could mean a number of things, but if you literally mean that she can fight people, that's not believable either. Hell, she can communicate to pokémon in a world where this is unusual (not in itself a bad trait, but made worse when she has so many other things going for her).

    -Hilda 'often lands in trouble,' but I do not know why. She always gets out, too, so that's not even a real obstacle. I don't know if there's any reason for someone to dislike her. I don't know how she's going to change as a character. I don't know what part of her persona is a hindrance. These are the things that make a character worthwhile to read about. I'm not even talking about "sometimes, x thing will lead to failure!" No, I'm talking about giving a strong battler some personality fault like hubris, or rashness, or inconsideration. Hilda appears to have no such characterisation. No, her recklessness doesn't count, as it doesn't detract from her abilities, and can be considered bravery instead, especially as she succeeds. Even worse, she makes a few mistakes 'here and there'. This is a begrudging acknowledgment that she's not entirely perfect, not an assurance that she's actually realistic.

    -Hilda is sometimes serious! Hilda is sometimes playful! Hilda likes cute things! Hilda likes pokémon! (That last one is basically gratis for any protag, no?) These are not sophisticated personality-defining traits, and are common to the vast majority of people in her demographic. They tell me nothing about her beliefs, attitudes or worldview. They do not differentiate her whatsoever from most journeyfic protags. They are not interesting.

    -Hilda does not have everything go her way. Fine, that's a step in the right direction, but if her obstacles merely present a challenging struggle to overcome, that's still not ideal. Sure, she's actually earning her success, but it barely safeguards her from Sue-dom. A good character does not start out utterly badass and solve a bunch of problems by trying harder. A good character is at first inadequate, and has to develop. A truly well thought-out character fails because of some critical mistake in themselves, learns, changes, grows. (This is not some universal rule, merely a very solid trend, especially in bildungsromans about young children. It is advisable to remember that Hilda is not as competent and mature as an adult and therefore should inevitably be extremely fallible.)

    Hilda's going to need some work to become a convincingly rounded character. I've already mentioned a few things to work on, I'm sure you can find a way to deal with those.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox View Post
    It's a very childish accusation anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it. Just write the kinds of characters you invision. If someone is going to find a floor in them, it might as well be the old 'mary-sue' brush, because if it isn't, it will only be something else. Just write what you feel happy with, and if it's good, it's good.
    I strongly disagree with this post. I've elided over the other posts here because by and large they're pretty decent, but this post is dismissive of all criticism as the fault of the reader, and attempting to justify carte blanche to write whatever without regard for assessment of any kind, however valid it may be. It is not an attitude at all conducive to improving as a writer. Furthermore, if a character is genuinely a Mary Sue, I fail to see how pointing it out could even be reasonably considered 'childish'. In my view, it's refusing to acknowledge criticism that is childish.

  6. #21
    Power Player RaiThunder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    California
    Posts
    93

    Default Re: The line between a Mary Sue and a great character and the risks

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    For my BW fic, I intend to write Hilda as a 14 year old girl who's a true protege at Pokemon training and can really kick ass without a Pokemon. Before the series began, she would rigorously train with her mother's help to always be strong and physically fit so when out in Unova, she can take care of herself. She's an outdoorsy tomboy who would go to the forest to camp out or even train to be a real survivalist in case she gets lost as a Trainer. She loves Pokemon and can even communicate with them (in contrast with N as shown in the story), making a few forest friends she often plays with. She does have friends like Cheren and Bianca and also enjoys other stuff people normally do. She can be playful and childish when in a good mood but when the situation calls for it like when dealing with Team Plasma or in any other battle, she become a serious and strategic contender who thinks quick and holds nothing back. She's nicknamed The Battle Maiden because of this and her birth name having the exact meaning. She's also an explorer who
    se curiosity often lands her in trouble but she manages to get out which she considers part of the fun. She's also sweet and compassionate and prone to hugging the hell out of anything cute (just ask her Oshawott). Of course, she's not infallible and can make a few mistakes and oversights here and there. Her heroic nature makes her reckless like when she actually goes to get her Oshawott back from Team Plasma mostly with a Pidove she caught on her own (she already knew it personally though) and her own manpower but her wits allowed her to succeed in saving her starter.

    Now I'm quite confident in this character. I won't self-proclaim that she's "great" but I'm sure that readers with not at all see her as a Mary Sue as far as I'm concerned since she'll have a tough time getting to the top. But, my characters aside, it makes me wonder about the fine line between an "amazing, well-rounded, badass" character and a "dull, perfect, contrived" Mary Sue. I've gone around hearing "they gotta have flaws or else they're a Sue" and such that I was once afraid that my protagonist would be ripped apart due to all of the above. But I'm now confident that if I give her a shot, things might not be (so) bad. All the same, I have to ask about this difference I've come to be aware of.
    To be honest, this doesn't really tell me a lot about your character. So far, I've seen points that could point to her being a Sue and point to her just being boring. She doesn't sound very interesting to me at all - she's a 'prodigy' (I hope that's what you meant), she's a kick-ass fighter - which by the way, means little because she's a fourteen year old girl and the likelihood of a fourteen year old defeating experienced opponents who are older than her drops you down close to the Sue Range - she can communicate with pokemon better than N, who was stated in-canon to be able to speak to them - she's kind, playful, loves pokemonl...all of these things point to her being amazingly wonderful and even her flaw of being rash doesn't seem like an actual flaw, especially because she gets out of the situations she puts herself in. You haven't indicated that she gets any growth or has any serious problems and/or flaws...it just makes me see her as an average person or closer to a 'sue' than anything else.

    And, going back to her talents...She's fourteen. That means that no matter how mature she is, she should still have the kind of flaws fourteen years old have - some overconfidence, maybe even bordering on outright arrogance with her skills. Maybe ignoring authority figures or having times of emotional turmoil.

    And her name? Hilda means battle, yes, but it doesn't mean battle maiden. Why does she get this nickname? Because she's an amazing battler and strategist - that sounds sue-ish in and of itself, because she has immense talent and skill before even going on her journey. You say she trained with her mother, but the fact is that training at home and book knowledge doesn't translate into skill in battle in the real world. All it says to me is that she has lots of knowledge that she may not know how to apply when a situation she hasn't covered happens or that she'll end up like that kid from the episode "the school of hard knocks" - having technical skill and no knowledge of how to apply it.

    You say she makes mistakes, but you gloss mention of them over and go on and on about her virtues - that makes me even more disinclined to be interested in her, because all I know of her is that she's some perfect character whose only flaw is being a rash and a little reckless. Neither of which you present as a bad thing, because she can get herself out of the messes she gets herself in - she even thinks it's fun - which makes me feel that it's not a real flaw - just something tacked on to make her seem less perfect.

    The difference between a well-rounded badass and a sue is development. This summary makes me think Hilda is more on the sue side, because we don't see any of that development.

    Well, she and her Oshawott lose their first three battles against her mother and a Patrat, Bianca and her Tepig and Cheren and his Snivy but it's mostly because of Oshawott's Anxiety (it is his first time with a Trainer) which Hilda sorts out as she likes to get personal with the Pokemon she catches. She runs into issues like with butting heads with N and his beliefs that seem outlandish to her and with Team Plasma and Gym battles as well, she always has her work cut out her. I intend to make her earn her victories with blood, sweat and tears. Plus, when the Heroes of Unova legend comes into play, things get more complicated for her and if you play the games, you can imagine how.
    See, this right here makes me think even more that she's a sue - when she loses, it's not her fault, it's her Pokemon's. That is practically a staple for sue-ish behavior - she doesn't make the mistake or cause the problem, he allies do! You say she has issues with N and his beliefs, but is she shown to always be right? Or is there reason to believe that N has a point? That difference could mean more or less sue points for Hilda. It's good that she earns her victories, but what about her losses? Are they ever her fault or is the fault of circumstance?

    Originally Posted by CrackFox
    It's a very childish accusation anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it. Just write the kinds of characters you invision. If someone is going to find a floor in them, it might as well be the old 'mary-sue' brush, because if it isn't, it will only be something else. Just write what you feel happy with, and if it's good, it's good.
    I didn't know Hilda was a house. Or, a bungalow I guess, if she only has one floor. That could actually be interesting - could a house be a trainer?
    Last edited by RaiThunder; 16th June 2012 at 12:23 PM.
    Three Times the Isshu: A Nuzlocke Novelization of Pokemon Black and White by Rai Thunder
    Under One Sky - An Ask/RP blog for the characters of Three Times the Isshu and the unpublished fic Flying High(Diving Deep). Stop in, ask questions, get some answers.
    Review Exchange
    No matter what you do, I will be who I will be. The question is, who are you?

  7. #22
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,852
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: The line between a Mary Sue and a great character and the risks

    Maybe I should write the story first to show how I going to present her and if people like her or hate her as well as the rest of the fic so far, I'll see what to from there. After all, to justify Hilda's skills means spoiling the whole story.

  8. #23
    Wordsmith unrepentantAuthor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Gender
    Genderless
    Location
    United Kingdom/Hoenn
    Posts
    262

    Default Re: The line between a Mary Sue and a great character and the risks

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Maybe I should write the story first to show how I going to present her and if people like her or hate her as well as the rest of the fic so far, I'll see what to from there. After all, to justify Hilda's skills means spoiling the whole story.
    I see you more or less completely ignored my post and have said nothing to imply even that you think Hilda is a well developed character. Cool.
    Also, if you can't explain a character without spoiling the plot, then their persona is too tightly tied to the plot. Hilda should be able to stand on her own as an interesting character, not rely on what happens to her to define her.

  9. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,852
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: The line between a Mary Sue and a great character and the risks

    Quote Originally Posted by unrepentantAuthor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Maybe I should write the story first to show how I going to present her and if people like her or hate her as well as the rest of the fic so far, I'll see what to from there. After all, to justify Hilda's skills means spoiling the whole story.
    I see you more or less completely ignored my post and have said nothing to imply even that you think Hilda is a well developed character. Cool.
    Also, if you can't explain a character without spoiling the plot, then their persona is too tightly tied to the plot. Hilda should be able to stand on her own as an interesting character, not rely on what happens to her to define her.
    I did not ignore your post in the slightest. I read it and I was unable to properly reply to it. And that's not what I was insinuating. I'd elaborate about her character but I don't want to risk spoiling parts of the story like twists or reveals involving her. And doesn't what happen in the story partially define her since, you know, she's the protagonist and we see her exploits, struggles and whatnot? Plus, I'd rather not toot my own horn for fear of appearing arrogant to others.

    If you want, I could PM you details on Hilda and the rest of the story so you could understand better. I don't want to post them publicly since it'd be like telling Harry Potter fans just starting to read the books what happens in Book Six. What would be the point of the twists?

    I now realize how pointless this thread is.

  10. #25
    Power Player RaiThunder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    California
    Posts
    93

    Default Re: The line between a Mary Sue and a great character and the risks

    I'd elaborate about her character but I don't want to risk spoiling parts of the story like twists or reveals involving her. And doesn't what happen in the story partially define her since, you know, she's the protagonist and we see her exploits, struggles and whatnot? Plus, I'd rather not toot my own horn for fear of appearing arrogant to others.
    If you can't expand on her character without revealing plot details, then yes, you have tied her far to closely with the plot of the story. She should be a character in her own right, with fears, weaknesses, strengths, and goals that you should be able to talk about without fear of spoilers. If you'd like, I can do that with one of my own characters to show you what I mean.
    Three Times the Isshu: A Nuzlocke Novelization of Pokemon Black and White by Rai Thunder
    Under One Sky - An Ask/RP blog for the characters of Three Times the Isshu and the unpublished fic Flying High(Diving Deep). Stop in, ask questions, get some answers.
    Review Exchange
    No matter what you do, I will be who I will be. The question is, who are you?

  11. #26
    Wordsmith unrepentantAuthor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Gender
    Genderless
    Location
    United Kingdom/Hoenn
    Posts
    262

    Default Re: The line between a Mary Sue and a great character and the risks

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    I did not ignore your post in the slightest. I read it and I was unable to properly reply to it. And that's not what I was insinuating. I'd elaborate about her character but I don't want to risk spoiling parts of the story like twists or reveals involving her. And doesn't what happen in the story partially define her since, you know, she's the protagonist and we see her exploits, struggles and whatnot? Plus, I'd rather not toot my own horn for fear of appearing arrogant to others.
    You didn't acknowledge any part of my post, thereby ignoring its content. Being unable to properly reply to it is not an encouraging sign.

    Hilda's character should not be tied to the plot. What happens to her in the story is not a justification for what she starts out as. With regard for her characterisation, I don't care what she overcomes, or what twists come to pass! They are utterly irrelevant to what kind of person she is at the start of the story. If a character cannot be separated from the plot and remain appreciable, they are simply not a good character. If a character is basically made up of unremarkable but benign qualities at the start of the story, there's little incentive to read on. If a character struggles only against circumstantial conflict (with a perfect hand of cards, so to speak), they smell of Sue. Does she not have any social conflict whatsoever to deal with at the story's start? I can only infer that she is as dully flawless as she seems, after all.

    At the very least, you could acknowledge that yes, you understand the points I've raised and believe Hilda to be an acceptably well-rounded character. However, I have still got no reason to believe that she starts out with any actual character development to do, given that you have yet to supply any actual character flaws.

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    If you want, I could PM you details on Hilda and the rest of the story so you could understand better. I don't want to post them publicly since it'd be like telling Harry Potter fans just starting to read the books what happens in Book Six. What would be the point of the twists?
    I'm curious, so go for it. I've never been bothered by spoilers, personally.

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    I now realize how pointless this thread is.
    If you wanted any actual discussion of your character, who supposedly is constructed largely of plot twists, then yes. Quite pointless. What did you actually expect, or want, other than assurance that Hilda was totally awesome?

  12. #27
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,852
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: The line between a Mary Sue and a great character and the risks

    Quote Originally Posted by unrepentantAuthor View Post
    What did you actually expect, or want, other than assurance that Hilda was totally awesome?
    A discussion on what makes a Mary Sue. Again, I didn't make this thread in order to toot my own horn but rather out of a sort of paranoia of what I was doing wrong or right. Do I detect a bit of hostility in your posts?

    If it's all the same, I'd rather delete this thread. I don't seem to be getting across what I wanted to so I may as well post the fic and let everyone see for themselves. As they say, "show, don't tell."

  13. #28
    CEO of the Monsters Lugion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,712
    Blog Entries
    99

    Default Re: The line between a Mary Sue and a great character and the risks

    Yeah, I say just start writing and see if she turns out to be one.

    As much as I respect uA as a fellow writer, I have to disagree with him in this case. A character can hardly be judged outside of the context of his or her story, because the events of a story influence who a character is and becomes. For example, I couldn't properly explain the character Vegeta from Dragon Ball Z, because his character arc is tied to events in the story, and he's hardly a Sue.
    Bubble Frog likes this.

  14. #29
    Power Player RaiThunder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    California
    Posts
    93

    Default Re: The line between a Mary Sue and a great character and the risks

    :sigh: If you wanted to discuss Mary-Sues, why did you post all about your character? It's alright to be paranoid - everyone gets a little annoyed, but I have to say that I am becoming irritated with your ignoring my posts and points. unrepentantAuthor and I have both pointed out the flaws we see with your character but you have yet to respond to our points. Instead, you've ignored all our comments about Hilda aside from vaguely assuring that 'all will be revealed with the story' and that her character is tied to the plots of the fic.

    If it's all the same, I'd rather you not delete this thread, because people do comb the threads and someone might find the information that the rest of have posted and commented on useful.
    Three Times the Isshu: A Nuzlocke Novelization of Pokemon Black and White by Rai Thunder
    Under One Sky - An Ask/RP blog for the characters of Three Times the Isshu and the unpublished fic Flying High(Diving Deep). Stop in, ask questions, get some answers.
    Review Exchange
    No matter what you do, I will be who I will be. The question is, who are you?

  15. #30
    Wordsmith unrepentantAuthor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Gender
    Genderless
    Location
    United Kingdom/Hoenn
    Posts
    262

    Default Re: The line between a Mary Sue and a great character and the risks

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    A discussion on what makes a Mary Sue. Again, I didn't make this thread in order to toot my own horn but rather out of a sort of paranoia of what I was doing wrong or right. Do I detect a bit of hostility in your posts?

    If it's all the same, I'd rather delete this thread. I don't seem to be getting across what I wanted to so I may as well post the fic and let everyone see for themselves. As they say, "show, don't tell."
    There's an entire Mary Sue thread, actually, you might want to take a look!
    I commented on how well you were doing, but you seemed to pass over that completely for inexplicable reasons. I still don't understand why you cannot even address the issue of her unblemished persona. Can't you reveal Hilda's character flaws, even though you can reveal her list of positive qualities?
    I don't know, can you detect hostility in my posts? I certainly didn't intend any, though now I'm tempted.

    Deleting the thread will achieve nothing. There is no reason why you can't have a discussion of Hilda's character here. That's not what "show, don't tell" means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugion View Post
    As much as I respect uA as a fellow writer, I have to disagree with him in this case. A character can hardly be judged outside of the context of his or her story, because the events of a story influence who a character is and becomes. For example, I couldn't properly explain the character Vegeta from Dragon Ball Z, because his character arc is tied to events in the story, and he's hardly a Sue.
    At the beginning of a story, if the character has no personality flaws, that's something to judge poorly. Good characters don't start flawless and accumulate flaws, in my experience.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •