Constructive criticism v. flaming - Page 3

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 86
Like Tree84Likes

Thread: Constructive criticism v. flaming

  1. #31
    Requiem Raver Drakon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Aboard the Hikokyu II
    Posts
    2,270
    Blog Entries
    28

    Default Re: Constructive criticism v. flaming

    I think that statement "harsh criticism helps writers" is a load of shit for two reasons:

    1. It reflects poorly on you; at best, you'll seem arrogant. At worst, you'll appear outright rude.
    2. People won't listen to you because they don't like you.



    One other thing; I've seen some people do reviews in an MST3K format. Do not do this unless you get permission from the author. The reason is that MST3K's hare minimally helpful and they often come across as rather mean-spirited.
    Silverwynde likes this.
    What are the Legendaries really like? Find out in The Life of the Legendaries

    Humans and pokémon no longer live in harmony. Hear their tales in The Poké Wars Chronicles: Tales From A World At War

    Cynthia once had it all: powerful pokémon, fame and hordes of adoring fans. But Ho-oh's campaign tears her life asunder. Now to survive this deadly new world, she must do the one thing that she never wanted: kill. Follow her trials through a world at war in Poké Wars: Downfall of a Champion

  2. #32
    CEO of the Monsters Lugion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,712
    Blog Entries
    99

    Default Re: Constructive criticism v. flaming

    I look at reviewing as being similar to teaching; my idea of a review (at least, applied to fan fiction) is instruction intended to help the author grow as a writer. And I don't remember any good teachers who weren't "nice" people.

  3. #33
    Secret Sword of Justice Kelleo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2,998
    Add Kelleo on Facebook
    Visit Kelleo's Youtube Channel

    Default Re: Constructive criticism v. flaming

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakon View Post
    One other thing; I've seen some people do reviews in an MST3K format. Do not do this unless you get permission from the author. The reason is that MST3K's hare minimally helpful and they often come across as rather mean-spirited.
    I apologize if this is a newbish question, but what the heck is MST3K?

  4. #34
    Requiem Raver Drakon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Aboard the Hikokyu II
    Posts
    2,270
    Blog Entries
    28

    Default Re: Constructive criticism v. flaming

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelleo View Post
    I apologize if this is a newbish question, but what the heck is MST3K?
    Mystery Science Theater 3000 is a TV show where a man and his robot friends are forced to watch bad movies and they riff on the flaws.

    Obviously, due to its nature, it can come off as rather mean-spirited.
    What are the Legendaries really like? Find out in The Life of the Legendaries

    Humans and pokémon no longer live in harmony. Hear their tales in The Poké Wars Chronicles: Tales From A World At War

    Cynthia once had it all: powerful pokémon, fame and hordes of adoring fans. But Ho-oh's campaign tears her life asunder. Now to survive this deadly new world, she must do the one thing that she never wanted: kill. Follow her trials through a world at war in Poké Wars: Downfall of a Champion

  5. #35
    Secret Sword of Justice Kelleo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2,998
    Add Kelleo on Facebook
    Visit Kelleo's Youtube Channel

    Default Re: Constructive criticism v. flaming

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakon View Post
    Mystery Science Theater 3000 is a TV show where a man and his robot friends are forced to watch bad movies and they riff on the flaws.

    Obviously, due to its nature, it can come off as rather mean-spirited.
    Oh, I see. Yeah, definitely not a good way to review something then. That sounds familiar though, I think I might have seen it before.

  6. #36
    Hex Mistress NoirGrimoir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    1,647
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Constructive criticism v. flaming

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelleo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakon View Post
    Mystery Science Theater 3000 is a TV show where a man and his robot friends are forced to watch bad movies and they riff on the flaws.

    Obviously, due to its nature, it can come off as rather mean-spirited.
    Oh, I see. Yeah, definitely not a good way to review something then. That sounds familiar though, I think I might have seen it before.
    I've never seen an actual review posted on a story done in this manner, but I have seen people with whole blogs dedicated to finding stories that they think suck and then tearing them to pieces. While I can imagine they might seem funny to an unrelated individual, I would think the actual author would be humiliated by it. It's the kind of thing that can scar you and make you never want to write again.

    Official Claimer of the Pokemon Pumpkaboo | Official Claimer of the Move Trick-Or-Treat | Official Claimer of the Items Silph Scopeand Odd Keystone.
    If you like comedy, check out my fanfic "You Win Some, You Lose Some" (CHAPTER THREE UP!) | For some supplementary art, visit NG's Sketches 'n Stuff!

  7. #37
    is obsessed with Noivern! Zekurom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,658
    Blog Entries
    108

    Default Re: Constructive criticism v. flaming

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Lugion View Post
    I look at reviewing as being similar to teaching; my idea of a review (at least, applied to fan fiction) is instruction intended to help the author grow as a writer. And I don't remember any good teachers who weren't "nice" people.
    I sometimes come off as overly strict, but I don't think I'm mean.
    The word "quadragonal" is the only word with "dragon" in it where "dragon" is not a root word. That makes it awesome.

  8. #38
    CEO of the Monsters Lugion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,712
    Blog Entries
    99

    Default Re: Constructive criticism v. flaming

    Oh definitely not. There's a huge difference between being "strict" and being "mean".

  9. #39
    ^^ Safe-T's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Location Location Location
    Posts
    277

    Default Re: Constructive criticism v. flaming

    While I do agree with most of what was said, in my opinion an author must be prepared for negative reviews or comments even if it does discourage them or even causes them to give up (at first). In my opinion, if an author intends to become great they have go through what all great authors went through, because just as a piece of seemingly worthless carbon requires amazing pressure and hellish heat to become a precious diamond, every author faced rejection at first, which is why only the tenacious make it through.

    My first experiences with writing ended with me giving up, and ending before even giving it a real shot. At least now I realize that it was because of the flaming, but thankfully I didn't give up entirely, and instead of learning by making mistakes and changing as I go, I took another route, I stared reading about how to better my writing.

    And I do admit that I might be a little intimidated by the reactions of readers, that won't stop me from coming up with great ideas for stories, stories that will soon be written. :)

    COMING SOON!

  10. #40
    Christmas Bubble Frog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Unova
    Posts
    4,508
    Blog Entries
    185

    Follow Bubble Frog on Tumblr

    Default Re: Constructive criticism v. flaming

    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    While I do agree with most of what was said, in my opinion an author must be prepared for negative reviews or comments even if it does discourage them or even causes them to give up (at first). In my opinion, if an author intends to become great they have go through what all great authors went through, because just as a piece of seemingly worthless carbon requires amazing pressure and hellish heat to become a precious diamond, every author faced rejection at first, which is why only the tenacious make it through.
    I can't do little more than agree with everything you just said. Sure, it's good to be nice and try to find something positive to say but getting heavily bothered by tiny things like someone pointing out a grammatical error or saying they find a character a bit boring is a bit too much. Honestly, I feel like Lance said it well, you start off a bit rough around the edges but gradually you smooth out and really improve as time goes on. Sure, it might come off as harsh but these things happen. For example looking back at my old stories I thought the way I executed them and the ideas were complete crap, awkward wording, poor description, poor pacing, lukewarm plot, one-dimensional characters. I'm glad I got that critique I needed on and off Bulbagarden because that really helped out a lot even though I don't think I'm an exceptional fanfic writer.
    Last edited by Bubble Frog; 27th January 2013 at 03:04 PM.

  11. #41
    is obsessed with Noivern! Zekurom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,658
    Blog Entries
    108

    Default Re: Constructive criticism v. flaming

    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    While I do agree with most of what was said, in my opinion an author must be prepared for negative reviews or comments even if it does discourage them or even causes them to give up (at first). In my opinion, if an author intends to become great they have go through what all great authors went through, because just as a piece of seemingly worthless carbon requires amazing pressure and hellish heat to become a precious diamond, every author faced rejection at first, which is why only the tenacious make it through.
    But, of course, we shouldn't be making it hard for them for the purposes of "weeding out" those people who aren't suitable for writing. The mentality that a person can pile on negativity and harsh, biting words into a review for an author just because "hey, it's not my responsibility to make my criticism constructive, it's the author's responsibility to grab the valuable advice out of it" is a mentality to be shunned and avoided. You can reject people and point out problems gracefully. Those who don't are the worst of the crop, not the best, and it's an unfortunate reality that people accept, not an ideal that people follow.

    I am a good example of this, in my opinion. While writing what parts of Generation 2021 I wrote (and no, I don't think I'll be continuing that anymore, unfortunately), the first parts were horrible (or at least I think they are looking back), but nobody gave me any bad comments. In the end, I still kept on writing, and eventually, it was the continued reading and writing that made me better, not the comments that anybody gave me. Even people who read it later on gave me these comments ("The first parts are pretty bad, but reading ahead, it looks like you improved quite a lot.") I was a little bothered by some of the comments given, but only because I myself realized upon re-reading that my writing was pretty bad. Eventually, I had ground my piece of rough carbon down myself, just by sheer practice toward reaching my role model.

    Perhaps a bit of what happened was that I read a lot of the reviews that had been given to other people, which weren't as painful to read because they weren't targeted to me, but made me feel sympathy for the people it was targeted toward and giving me a desire not to make the same mistakes. Learning from the mistakes of others is a perfectly valid way to learn.
    Last edited by Zekurom; 27th January 2013 at 08:05 PM.
    Safe-T and matt0044 like this.
    The word "quadragonal" is the only word with "dragon" in it where "dragon" is not a root word. That makes it awesome.

  12. #42
    Hex Mistress NoirGrimoir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    1,647
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Constructive criticism v. flaming

    I agree with Zekurom that "a writer needs to learn to deal with harsh criticism" isn't an excuse to flame someone. Whoever, I have met all to many people who even handled very carefully and with encouragement, give up without really trying at the first sign that the utter crap they've come up with wasn't brilliant and someone might not think it was the best idea ever. Not out of pride, just out of fear.

    I've been a beta many times and people have asked for my honest opinions and assistance on their stories and ideas. I certainly don't pull my punches, but I like to think that even if my criticism is very harsh, that I give very good suggestions, explanations, encouragement and the promise that I would give all the help the author asked for to make the story better, as well as always telling the writer that what they say goes, and not to just take my word for things but follow their instincts if they have strong feelings about something. And even with all this, I've had people give up on something after I've critiqued their first chapter. Sometimes after I've just given my opinion on their premise. If the reviewer/critic/beta has genuinely tried their best to be evenhanded and encouraging, if the writer still quits/cries/whatever, its not their fault. It could be that the writer simply doesn't have the objectivity needed to really examine themselves, or the right story idea hasn't come along to make them want to.
    Safe-T and matt0044 like this.

    Official Claimer of the Pokemon Pumpkaboo | Official Claimer of the Move Trick-Or-Treat | Official Claimer of the Items Silph Scopeand Odd Keystone.
    If you like comedy, check out my fanfic "You Win Some, You Lose Some" (CHAPTER THREE UP!) | For some supplementary art, visit NG's Sketches 'n Stuff!

  13. #43
    ^^ Safe-T's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Location Location Location
    Posts
    277

    Default Re: Constructive criticism v. flaming

    Quote Originally Posted by NoirGrimoir View Post
    It could be that the writer simply doesn't have the objectivity needed to really examine themselves, or the right story idea hasn't come along to make them want to.
    I think that's the biggest problem, when misunderstanding constructive criticism with flaming. We really need to objectively look at our works, which is kind of a problem since in the end these are our personal creations, and we love them like we would our children. It's no wonder we get all aggressive when someone start badmouthing our kid. So we should try to learn to be more wise parents... what the heck was I talking about?
    matt0044 and Silverwynde like this.

    COMING SOON!

  14. #44
    The Dimension Wizard Flaze's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Why do you care
    Posts
    59,620
    Blog Entries
    151
    Add Flaze on Facebook
    Follow Flaze on Tumblr Visit Flaze's Youtube Channel

    Default Re: Constructive criticism v. flaming

    @Gotpika; you also improved your action scenes a lot.
    @Lance; you´re right on that, you know I took the litmus test yesterday for one of my character and I was wondering that it´s a sign of a mary sue if an author has a liking for a specific character over all the others, but I myself like all the characters I create and feel bad if they´re insulted, both fics and RP characters.

    Though I do agree that a writer always starts off slow and they always start off with that feeling you know, when you still don´t know your way around things and don´t know what to do. I for one got a lot of harsh reviews when I first started and it was really tough honestly, bulba was really different four years ago compared to how it is now but I managed to pull through it, of course I´m still far from a good writer compared to a lot of others but I think that I´ve gotten quite better compared to when I started, because even if they were harsh I still tried to do what I can to follow on the review.

  15. #45
    Christmas Bubble Frog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Unova
    Posts
    4,508
    Blog Entries
    185

    Follow Bubble Frog on Tumblr

    Default Re: Constructive criticism v. flaming

    Quote Originally Posted by Stellar Gale View Post
    you´re right on that, you know I took the litmus test yesterday for one of my character and I was wondering that it´s a sign of a mary sue if an author has a liking for a specific character over all the others, but I myself like all the characters I create and feel bad if they´re insulted, both fics and RP characters.
    Yeah, I wouldn't take Sue test seriously. They're usually crap made up by know-it-all know nothings and the term Mary-Sue has pretty much become a term without real meaning anyway.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •