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  1. #16
    Goronda Type Vice-Webmaster Evil Figment's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    I guess so - bad OTS seems to have declined.

    And it is true that nowaday most crap fics that get written are Ash-fics. However, I'm still a bit wary of trainers fics - quite a few unoriginal boring ones get written. And after seeing TPM get literally swamped down unders such fics - and arrogant brats who all thought such fics as they had written (generally, variation on the theme of "Joe Schmoe arrives late at professor *insert tree*'s place, and get a *insert ubber-powerful pokemon* because that's all that was left") were true masterpieces - I still cringe when I see people advertising OTS as the style people should try to write.

    IMHO, Ash-fics and OTS should both be avoided early on when you try to tell a story. Start with writing short stories, to get a feel for writing.

    Yes, I'm perfectly aware I did NOT do that.

    No, you shouldn't try to do what I did. Maybe if I had taken the time to get some skill before writing TGE, I wouldn't constantly be writing new versions of that basic plot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mintaka and Hurristat
    He's an evil director / He'll give out infractions / Do something wrong / And he takes direct actions
    Then what'll he do?/ He'll permaban you / You find your name slashed / With a message, 'Adieu'
    Sooooo...watch out!
    "It is said that the federal government, if it was in charge of the Sahara, would run out of sand in five years. Private enterprise, being more efficient, would do it in half the time - and they'd make money off the bridges." - me.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." - Jack Layton's last letter. Rest in peace, Jack.

  2. #17
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    Default Sorry

    Ugh, rereading my post sorry. I didn't mean to sound so condescending. I'm really sorry about that.

    There are three things that make me hit the back button if I see them in a pokefic

    -Uber powerful starters
    -Beating ever trainer without a single loss
    -Meeting and traveling with Ash

    Those are the three signs of bland pokefic. Usually there isn't any conflict which is boring and meeting with Ash, has been done a gajillion times.

    I am odd in the sense that I actually like Journey Fics. If I find a well-written completed one I will read it. Heh

    Oh well.

    ~Deki
    Hey Come Visit my Website. Its full of well written Pokemon Fan Fiction.

    The Pokemon Library

  3. #18
    Goronda Type Vice-Webmaster Evil Figment's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    Oh, WELL WRITTEN Journeys fic, I love. Marty's Pokemon Conquer the Elemental League, Xi League, The Journeys of Lance Ketchum, Glory's Long Road - I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

    It's just I'm generally wary of trainer stories- most of those I've seen tend to degenerate in blandness after a while.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mintaka and Hurristat
    He's an evil director / He'll give out infractions / Do something wrong / And he takes direct actions
    Then what'll he do?/ He'll permaban you / You find your name slashed / With a message, 'Adieu'
    Sooooo...watch out!
    "It is said that the federal government, if it was in charge of the Sahara, would run out of sand in five years. Private enterprise, being more efficient, would do it in half the time - and they'd make money off the bridges." - me.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." - Jack Layton's last letter. Rest in peace, Jack.

  4. #19
    Unseen Watcher Murgatroyd's Avatar
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    Default Advice for Aspiring Authors - An Old Rant Revived

    As a few of you already know, a couple of years ago at Pojo, I snapped after reading one badly written story too many, and wrote a little rant. Recently, someone asked me to post it here, so here it is, unchanged:



    ________________________________________

    As I have read the various works posted on this board, I have noticed many of the same problems over and over. Here are some general guidelines to follow when writing your fics:

    --------------------------------
    1) Proper Use of the Keyboard.
    There are several useful keys on the keyboard:

    Enter/Return: This is one of the most useful keys. Use it whenever you have finished with one idea and are ready to move on to the next paragraph. Use it when one person has finished speaking, and another is about to start. When doing so, hit it twice, to produce a blank line between paragraphs. This makes it a lot easier for your readers to tell where your paragraphs start and end. Large blocks of uninterrupted text are hard to read.

    Shift: Another important key. Hold it down when typing the first letter of a sentence, the first letter of a name, or the letter 'I' when using it as the first person singular subject pronoun.

    Caps Lock: Often used as a substitute for the 'Shift' key. Don't do it. Text should not be in all capital letters unless someone is SHOUTING!

    The Spacebar: Hit it once after every word or comma, twice after a period.

    Tab: Unfortunately, this does not work to indent paragraphs on these boards. This is why a blank line between paragraphs is essential.

    Other Keys: Your keyboard, unless it is defective, comes with a full complement of letters. Don't be afraid to use them. There is no reason to type 'u' instead of 'you', or indeed to use any abbreviation you learned in a chat room. There is no penalty for taking a few seconds longer to type complete words.

    --------------------------------
    2) Tips on Composition.

    Paragraphs: Use these as your basic unit of composition. Each paragraph should be used to set forth a single idea. If a paragraph seems to long, it probably contains multiple ideas, and should be split up for clarity. If it seems too short, expand on the idea.

    Sentences: A sentence should contain exactly one action or statement of existence. If it contains more than one, split it into two or more. If it contains less than one, finish the sentence. Run-on sentences are often confusing, while fragments make the reader feel that something is missing.

    Description: Make sure that your reader can visualize what is happening. Don't just say something like "Joe walked along enjoying the scenery". This gives no indication of whether the scenery he is enjoying is a redwood forest, a beach at sunset, or the Grand Canyon.

    A description is not just a list of attributes. When describing a character, don't just list their name, age, height, weight, hair color, and current pokemon team. Bring this information out gradually when the person appears in a story. Don't have Joe meet a trainer named Fred who is 12 years old, has green eyes and red hair, is three and a half feet tall, and whose pokemon are squirtle, pikachu, butterfree, grimer, tauros, and krabby. Have Joe see a short, red-haired kid with startlingly green eyes, and talk to him. Have names mentioned early in the conversation. The pokemon may be either revealed in a battle, or introduced individually during the conversation.

    --------------------------------
    3) Other General Advice.

    Plot: Try to be original. "Joe is 10 (or 11 or 12) years old and about to start his pokemon journey. He goes to Professor (insert tree here) and gets a (insert pokemon here)" has been done too many times already. "Joe is a 10-year-old from Pallet Town and about to start his pokemon journey. He accidentally sleeps in, and by the time he gets to Professor Oak's lab, all the starters have been taken, so he gets a Pikachu" is so old everyone is sick of it.

    Try to be reasonable. A new trainer is not going to start with a legendary, or even rare, pokemon. The standard starter pokemon were selected for a reason: They are easy for professors to obtain whenever new trainers are about to start, they can be controlled by beginners, and with proper training, they can become quite powerful. Likewise, it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to catch any of the legendary pokemon. They are simply too powerful. If you have seen either of the movies, think about it. Mew or Mewtwo can deflect any attack you try with minimal effort. Consider the scene in The Power of One where Ash's Pikachu (which has been known to defeat rock and ground types) meets Zapdos. Compare their relative power levels. Now think about how hard it would be to defeat Zapdos. This can be applied to any of the legendary pokemon. No trainer will have one unless it has a good reason to want to accompany that trainer.

    Characters: Make your characters real. Give them strengths and weaknesses. Inherently superior trainers who win each battle effortlessly are boring. So are incompetent members of Team Rocket. So is the gym-leader-who-can't-stand-being-defeated. The stock "Rival" character is also getting old.

    Whatever you do, don't just refer to people by labels from the GameBoy games (Rocket, Cooltrainer, Lass, Bug Catcher, etc). Remember that these are real people you are working with.

    Spelling/Grammar: Write your story in a word-processing program. Use the spellchecker, but don't depend on it completely. It can tell whether your word matches the spelling of a real word, but it cannot tell whether it is the word you wanted to use. Use grammar checkers with extreme care. They cannot actually understand what you are saying, and often make mistakes.

    --------------------------------
    4) My Personal Advice:

    Note that the contents of this section reflect my personal preferences. Other good writers may disagree with me.

    Battles: I generally dislike sentences of the form "(pokemon species) used (name of attack)". You are describing what the pokemon does. In a real-world battle, the pokemon would not "use Bite on" its opponent; it would "bite" its opponent. There are, however, exceptions to this. If there is no verb for the action, go ahead and say "Bulbasaur used Leech Seed". Still, try to avoid "used (name of attack)". Better options would be "fired a hyperbeam at (enemy)", "hit (enemy) with (attack)", etc.

    Additionally, the GameBoy battle format makes no sense in the context of a real battle. A pokemon in a real battle would not just attack, then stand there waiting for its opponent to attack. In a real battle, you would have no time to go in and administer a potion or antidote to your pokemon. Watch the TV show for a reasonable depiction of what battles would be like.

    GameBoy Terminology in general: Try to avoid it. In the real world, referring to something as "Level 17" is meaningless. Pokemon have varying levels of power and experience, but don't just summarize all of this with a single number. In the world of your fanfic, pokemon are real, living creatures. They are individuals. They have their own strengths, weaknesses, and skills.

    The only thing worse than referring to "levels" is referring to "hit points", "power points", or any of the "statistics" (attack, defense, "special defense", etc). Avoid use of these terms at all costs.

    --------------------------------

    That's all for now. If I think of any more, I will post it. If you can think of anything I have forgotten, post it.

    Thanks.
    波導は我に有り


    Bulbagarden | Serebii.net
    Member at both. Mod at both.
    And sick and tired of the Joe-Liam feud.

  5. #20
    A black and white world Blackjack Gabbiani's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice for Aspiring Authors - An Old Rant Revived

    Originally posted by Murgatroyd
    The only thing worse than referring to "levels" is referring to "hit points", "power points", or any of the "statistics" (attack, defense, "special defense", etc). Avoid use of these terms at all costs.
    I don't know about that, I think if done *well* these can be overlooked.

    Also, if based more directly on the game than the series.

    For instance, I was criticized for using a reference to "Life 3" in a Final Fantasy fic, even though spells were refered to by name in the game...

  6. #21
    Goronda Type Vice-Webmaster Evil Figment's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    Default Re: Advice for Aspiring Authors - An Old Rant Revived

    A few personal comments on the topic...

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Murgatroyd

    A description is not just a list of attributes. When describing a character, don't just list their name, age, height, weight, hair color, and current pokemon team. Bring this information out gradually when the person appears in a story. Don't have Joe meet a trainer named Fred who is 12 years old, has green eyes and red hair, is three and a half feet tall, and whose pokemon are squirtle, pikachu, butterfree, grimer, tauros, and krabby. Have Joe see a short, red-haired kid with startlingly green eyes, and talk to him. Have names mentioned early in the conversation. The pokemon may be either revealed in a battle, or introduced individually during the conversation.


    On the topic of describing the characters, try to space out the description and make it be part of the action, rather than pausing the action to desribe, IE.

    "As he turned on the Main Street, Satoshi noticed a dark-haired young trainer. The young man seemed to be searchign for someone, his intense green eyes scanning the crowd, though he probably couldn't see much, being quite small.

    He seemed nervous, too. His face was wary, and one hand was closed tightly around a pokeball..."

    It's much better than :

    "Ash turned on main street. He saw a small young man with dark hair and intense green eyes. The kid seemed to be searching for something in the crowd, and was nervous. One of his hand was closed tightly around a pokeball."


    Plot: Try to be original. "Joe is 10 (or 11 or 12) years old and about to start his pokemon journey. He goes to Professor (insert tree here) and gets a (insert pokemon here)" has been done too many times already. "Joe is a 10-year-old from Pallet Town and about to start his pokemon journey. He accidentally sleeps in, and by the time he gets to Professor Oak's lab, all the starters have been taken, so he gets a Pikachu" is so old everyone is sick of it.

    Which isn't to say that writing a trainer journey is necessarily bad ; just try to be original with it.

    Try to be reasonable. A new trainer is not going to start with a legendary, or even rare, pokemon. The standard starter pokemon were selected for a reason: They are easy for professors to obtain whenever new trainers are about to start, they can be controlled by beginners, and with proper training, they can become quite powerful.

    Which is *MOST DEFINITELY* not to say that only the regular starters should be considered. Simply, the rare-and-powerful pokemon should not be.

    The rule of thumbs for a good starter are :

    #1 : It has some form of evolution, PREFERABLY triggered by level (though stones is an acceptable subsitute ; trading is not). Snorlax, Lapras, etc don't make for good starters. The legendaries, needless to say, are out of the question.

    #2 : It is either a regular starter or a pokemon that can be reasonably obtained. That means, the fossils are not acceptable starters.

    #3 : It is not a "super powerful" pokemon. Generally speaking, that means the Dragonite-level pokemon of each game. You know the one ; it has three degrees of evolution and has total stats above the legendaries. Boomanda, the Steel/Psychic thing, Dragonite and Tyranitar (and their earlier evos) would be it, IIRC.

    Likewise, it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to catch any of the legendary pokemon. They are simply too powerful. If you have seen either of the movies, think about it. Mew or Mewtwo can deflect any attack you try with minimal effort. Consider the scene in The Power of One where Ash's Pikachu (which has been known to defeat rock and ground types) meets Zapdos. Compare their relative power levels. Now think about how hard it would be to defeat Zapdos. This can be applied to any of the legendary pokemon. No trainer will have one unless it has a good reason to want to accompany that trainer.

    Indeed. They are the "Gods" of the pokemon world, and IF they ever accompany a regular trainer (Team Rocket not withstanding), then it is of their own free will, and for very capital reason ("saving the world" and such leaps to mind...though there could be other reasons. I could see, SAY, Latias letting herself be caught by Ash... (if she didn't have to watch over that city)).

    Whatever you do, don't just refer to people by labels from the GameBoy games (Rocket, Cooltrainer, Lass, Bug Catcher, etc). Remember that these are real people you are working with.

    Depend, there. In some case where it's an arbitrary classification (Lass, Cooltrainer, etc), definitely, but in others, where the classification is there for a reason, it's perfectly legitimate to use it as long as it's not all you use. A person going around swinging nets at butterflies is *QUITE* obviously a bug catcher, thus line like

    "'Damn! I had almost caught it!' The bug catcher exclaimed" is perfeclty acceptable, instead of repeating the name of the character over and over again.

    And in the specific case of Rocket, it is not only acceptable but perfectly legitimate : it is just like refering to members of an army as "Soldiers" instead of giving out their name and rank every time.

    "'As if you could ever do that!' Corporal John and Private Joe laughed."
    "'As if you could ever do that!' The two soldiers laughed."

    4) My Personal Advice:

    Note that the contents of this section reflect my personal preferences. Other good writers may disagree with me.


    Either you just called me a bad writer, or else I just proved you wrong, given that I disagreed with you on other points above...;)

    Battles: I generally dislike sentences of the form "(pokemon species) used (name of attack)". You are describing what the pokemon does. In a real-world battle, the pokemon would not "use Bite on" its opponent; it would "bite" its opponent. There are, however, exceptions to this. If there is no verb for the action, go ahead and say "Bulbasaur used Leech Seed". Still, try to avoid "used (name of attack)". Better options would be "fired a hyperbeam at (enemy)", "hit (enemy) with (attack)", etc.

    Even better. Skip the attack name, and DESCRIBE it.

    "Dragonite whirled about, and seemed to pause, the stadium dimming as light gathered in its jaws. Then a fiery spear of light lanced forth, sending the Machamp flying back to strike the wall of the arena."

    Additionally, the GameBoy battle format makes no sense in the context of a real battle. A pokemon in a real battle would not just attack, then stand there waiting for its opponent to attack. In a real battle, you would have no time to go in and administer a potion or antidote to your pokemon. Watch the TV show for a reasonable depiction of what battles would be like.

    And remember combo moves are perfectly legitimate - and that attacks should have a LOGICAL effect for their name, not their anime effect.

    IE, reflect is going to reflect straight back to the other guy his attack.

    GameBoy Terminology in general: Try to avoid it. In the real world, referring to something as "Level 17" is meaningless. Pokemon have varying levels of power and experience, but don't just summarize all of this with a single number. In the world of your fanfic, pokemon are real, living creatures. They are individuals. They have their own strengths, weaknesses, and skills.

    As a note, it is *NOT* a crime to mention experience though.

    "That pokemon is much more experienced! You are going to have a hard time!" or "My charmander need to get some battling experience!" are perfectly legitimate.

    Just don't tackle a "points" after that experience.

    Getting experience is something you can do IRL.
    Gaining experience points isn't.

    The only thing worse than referring to "levels" is referring to "hit points", "power points", or any of the "statistics" (attack, defense, "special defense", etc). Avoid use of these terms at all costs.

    Generally speaking, agreed. If you really want to talk about the "stats", then at least try to find some more appropriate way to describe it. IE "Strength" instead of attack, "Resilience" or "Armor" or "Resistance" instead of defense, "elemental resistence" instead of "special defense" and some other term ("elemental atunement"? instead of special attack).

    IE, if you want to say that a pokemon isn't very good with special-based attacks...

    "It isn't very attuned to elemental attacks." or "It isn't very good with non-physical attacks." or some such.

    Conversedly, don't say "It has high special defense!" to justify not using special attacks on a pokemon, instead say something like...

    "Pokemon like that one tend to have high resistance to elemental attacks." (or whichever term you want to use to describe special-based attack ; personally I call them elemental, even though that's not wholly appropriate).

    ------------

    Edit : And...hmmmm...I think this belongs in the Artist's Café, or in the thread by Kurai...I'll leave it there for now, to see what the other mods think. But technically, this is what the Café is for (among other things).
    Quote Originally Posted by Mintaka and Hurristat
    He's an evil director / He'll give out infractions / Do something wrong / And he takes direct actions
    Then what'll he do?/ He'll permaban you / You find your name slashed / With a message, 'Adieu'
    Sooooo...watch out!
    "It is said that the federal government, if it was in charge of the Sahara, would run out of sand in five years. Private enterprise, being more efficient, would do it in half the time - and they'd make money off the bridges." - me.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." - Jack Layton's last letter. Rest in peace, Jack.

  7. #22
    A black and white world Blackjack Gabbiani's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: Advice for Aspiring Authors - An Old Rant Revived

    Originally posted by Damian Silverblade
    Indeed. They are the "Gods" of the pokemon world, and IF they ever accompany a regular trainer (Team Rocket not withstanding), then it is of their own free will, and for very capital reason ("saving the world" and such leaps to mind...though there could be other reasons. I could see, SAY, Latias letting herself be caught by Ash... (if she didn't have to watch over that city)).
    Psychic Link has been used in canon, in Pokemon Adventure. Remember Blaine's link with Mewtwo?

    But that should be used for someone OTHER than the main character, if at all

  8. #23
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    [qouote]Whatever you do, don't just refer to people by labels from the GameBoy games (Rocket, Cooltrainer, Lass, Bug Catcher, etc). Remember that these are real people you are working with.[/quote]

    I must agree with you on this point, and with Bro on his comment that they are sometimes useful. To add to this, DON'T use epithets to the extreme, for example:


    "Hello Kasumi!" the black haired boy said.

    "Hey Satoshi!" the gym leader from Hanada replied.


    If you know what I mean. But a perfectly legitimate use of epithets, as far as I'm concerned, is something like this:


    "Oooh!" Black-haired and perverted Takeshi cooed, "Cute girl!"


    And another thing I'd just LOVE to point out is the following: Punctuation marks have uses, learn them, don't make up your own.

    Not that there are people who do that here, but I've seen many fics on many websites which mix up punctuation in a grammarian's nightmare. And don't EVER trust Microsoft Word's grammar check, because it's hell with long sentances and some of the uses of the semi-colon.

    And don't talk to me about spelling in Microsoft Word either...

    This is really good though, Murgatroyd!

    so sell your suit and tie and come and live with me
    leukemia schizophrenia polyethylene
    there is no significant risk to your health
    she used to be beautiful once as well

    plastic bag, middle class, polyethylene
    decaffeinate, unleaded, keep all surfaces clean
    if you don't believe this, sell your soul
    if you don't get into it, no one will

  9. #24
    Jellybaby for your brain! Mew2Too's Avatar
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    (Sits, contemplative.) Iie, Murg-sempai. I disagree with quite a lot of what you are saying. How can I say this? I have currently been studying the brilliant devices used by the greatest writer of the 21st century. Who do I speak of? Of course, none other than Stephen King! (Or, as I like to call him while listening to On Writing, King-sensei.

    Yes, it is generally frowned upon to get under-descriptive. However, there is such a thing as being over-descriptive. Try, if you can, to describe the character as briefly as possible. After all, if you say, "[Character] had blonde, spikey hair," there is not much room for debate on what kind of hair said character has. Yet, I'd suggest not being underdescriptive.

    Don't say stupid things like, "The trainer wore a shirt." Unless the character wasn't wearing a shirt in the last scene, and you're denoting he put one on in this scene, then try to get more descriptive. Is it a sweater? Is it a polo shirt? Is it a T-shirt, and is there anything unusual about it? What color is it? Once again, is the character wearing any shirt at all? Is the said character a girl not wearing a shirt, going topless because this is a lemon? What color panties are being worn by said character...

    ...
    ...

    Okay, never mind those last two sentences.

    Don't shy away from the classic "he said, she said," format. Use it when it is appropriate, but don't use it in place of such old classics as "he/she asked, he/she croaked, he/she bellowed..." For God's sake, don't use, "He ejaculated," or "He jerked out." Trying to come up with too fancy a way to say, "he said/she said," can get as ugly as being repetitive with the phrase.

    Ah, hell! The best way to improve written dialogue is by reading books! Now, I hope my fellow fanfic writers won't get mad at me, but I haven't been to this part of the forum regularly for quite a while. What have I been doing? I've been reading classic short horror stories by such heavy-weights as Sheridan Le Fanu, M.R. James, W.W. Jacobs, and Edgar Allen Poe. ( Poe's style, by the way, I find suspiciously like Blackjack Gabbiani's. ) If you can't take the time to read, how the hell can you write? Reading is essential for picking up new vocab, deciding on a style and flavor of writing, and even grammatical improvement, in some cases.

    It wouldn't hurt to listen to music while you write, either. I find it handy to find "character songs" while I'm writing. For example, I'm writing about an evil sorcerer. Am I going to listen to Avril Lavigne, or am I going to listen to Iron Maiden or Korn. I mean, listen to whatever you want, but listening to music that fits a character helps sometimes. You can make up little "soundtracks" in this way.

    As to characters, I wouldn't suggest - as Murg-sempai did - that you always start out with a Charmander, a Totodile, or Treecko. Yes, your Bulbasaurs, Mudkips, and Cyndaquils are fine. Don't let me stop you from using a Torchic, a Squirtle, or a Chikorita. However, I would suggest you use a Pokemon - within reason - that you consider your favorite. By "within reason" I'm speaking mostly about non-legendaries, and preferably unevolved Pokies. In the special mangas involving Red, he started off with Poliwag. It later evolved into Poliwhirl, but not straight off.

    That doesn't mean you should leave out legendary starters entirely. I would leave out Mewtwo, if I were you. Try to avoid Mew, as well. But, what is so wrong with a trainer starting off with a baby version of a Lugia or Raikou? Nothing, really. We saw in the Lugia saga in Master Quest that the Lugia baby was definitely not as strong as an adult Lugia. The Celebi are another example of Pokemon that clearly aren't all-powerful in their younger stages. If you want to make it really good, don't forget to play on a baby legendary's weaknesses. For example, what would a Houndoom do to a baby Celebi? I think we both know the answer. What would an Electabuzz do to a baby Lugia? Do I even have to tell you?

    Anyway, I would suggest avoiding the whole "Professor" thing. That old-fashioned "Professor gave me a Pokie" thing is old. In JTC, my first Pokemon was Vulpix. My grandfather, a Pokemon prof, didn't give him to me. My character lives in New Bark Town, but Vulpix wasn't given to me by Professor Elm. I went to Pallet after, and Oak helped Vulpix recover from a battle, but he did not give me Vulpix. Where did Vulpix come from? He was an orphaned cub in a patch of woods. I found him, helped him defeat some rabid Golbat, and so he came with me.

    If you're going to have a legendary following you around - say, Mewtwo - try to avoid match battles with him. Do really think Mewtwo is going to jump in and help you fight trainer X like a good wittle Pikachu would? Doubtful. Mewtwo is more likely to fight human beings than other Pokemon. If you say, "Mewtwo, get in there and fight Pornstar Jenna's Jynx with a Psychic attack," do you know what Mewtwo would say? Well, I'll let Mewtwo tell you.

    : What? Humiliate myself by supplicating to your selfish desires? You may kiss my...

    Okay, Mewtwo, that's enough! Now, if you were helping Mewtwo fend off intruders in Paradise Canyon...

    You: Mewtwo, I think you should kick this guy's @$$!

    : Yes, human! You are correct. This slime has come against me, and now he shall fall!

    I have been told that it is a bad idea to use yourself as a main character. This may be true, but not always. Sometimes, it is better to put yourself into a character than writing an empty character that you have no attachment to. Try to keep yourself in check when writing a character based on yourself, though. The anti-autoficcers would tell you this is just as big a sin, but I see nothing wrong with making a character who is you - but more like what you aspire to be. (BTW, autofic and all subsequent variations is a phrase I now coin. "Autofic" is a fictional portrayal of one's self. Sort of like "autobiograhy," except... Well... fiction. I hereby refuse to use "self-insertion," to describe a fic with one's self as the main char. I care to use "self-insertion" to describe said fiction as much as I would care to use "cockgobbler" to describe a dish of chicken and turkey. I mean, why don't we just apply "dick-licker" to a story about a main character named Richard who starts out with a Lickitung.)

    Also, it is taboo, in Pokemon fiction, to refer to real human history unless the story takes place in this world. I have been told to change names and places to avoid this. That doesn't exactly work for me, but maybe it would for you. Try to change real events slightly - give them a twist - if you're going to use them as a template.

    Also, be a little more discerning about the names you change. Don't just change them, change them well. Don't write a Pokemon military story where Surge and crew have been dispatched by "President Mush" to fight "Musama min Madden" and "Guddam Gussein." ( That is, unless it's a comedy. )

    Try not to incorporate direct relgious ideas into a story. Don't have Jesus Christ training an Espeon, in other words. ( Once again, unless it's a comedy. ) Instead, incorporate some basic religious ideas into your story. Feel free to mix and match. Does your character remind you of a religious figure? Is he a little bit like him? Believe me, I could go on for hours about fictitious characters that I believe are based on Jesus alone. (Vash the Stampede, Aragorn the Strider, etc.)

    As to doing battle scenes realistically, I'm going to give you all a little hand. Go here. Read up, saddle up, and if you feel the committing spirit on ya, join up! PASBL has helped me immensely. Knobert's PASBL program is a miracle in bits and bytes! Just reading how PASBL does battles will help give you a structured style of your own. That isn't to say you should treat a fictional battle like you would a PASBL reffing job. There is a big difference between fiction and PABL. In fiction, you should already know the outcome of the battle before it begins. Who will win? You shold know that already. PASBL will just help you reach that end, but it is certainly no means to it.

    Some people will tell you not to use Satoshi/Ash and gang in your stories. I would advise the same. This goes especially if you're writing about the Japanese show, know what the hell you're talking about, and write a story about. I mean, if you write a story, say, about Kasumi returning and training Haruka, and then start having all the characters talk very unlike what dub-grubbers are used to, then...

    Ah! Never mind! Just trust me from personal experience. Peeps, unless your writing a shippy fic, don't write Satoshi-tachi stories. You won't get many reads if you do.

    Of course, does that matter? You should be writing, not for the approval of the masses, but for your own satisfaction. Once it starts becoming only about compromising the flavor of your vision to please the taste-buds of the readers, then you're through. You must understand, these are just guidelines that we lay out. If you think you have a better idea that could attract more readers, than for God's sake - do it! Remember, though, you should be telling a story - one that you like!

    Just think of it this way - you have to keep the story alive in your heart before it becomes interesting. It helps to think, "Wow! This story really happened somewhere! I'm just typing it out for everyone to enjoy!"

    Well, I hope I was helpful.

    EDIT: Oh, and, Murgy, pleeeaaasse don't bring up Microsoft Word. I use Wordpad. People call me crazy, and ask, "How can you live without spelling and grammar checks?"

    Simple. A stupid, bloated, Bill Gates brain-farted program with all its feelingless, contextless computer-generated bullshit spat out by a CGI paper clip does not replace good ol' fashioned GOOD SPELLING and GOOD GRAMMAR!!! Remeber, a computer is only as smart is the person using it. For the most part, the computer is no match for the power of the human brain- it can only go faster. Don't let this happen, whatever you do!

    Microsoft Word > j00

    If you let Microsoft Word be your basic grammar, you're in for a heap of trouble.
    Last edited by Mew2Too; 8th February 2003 at 12:38 PM.
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    Unseen Watcher Murgatroyd's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Mew2Too
    (Sits, contemplative.) Iie, Murg-sempai. I disagree with quite a lot of what you are saying. How can I say this? I have currently been studying the brilliant devices used by the greatest writer of the 21st century. Who do I speak of? Of course, none other than Stephen King! (Or, as I like to call him while listening to On Writing, King-sensei.
    Yes, many of the greatest writers achieve their best effects by breaking the "rules" that others would set out. However, as a fairly skilled amateur writer I know once said, it's important to know the rules before you start breaking them. Following the advice in my little rant won't necessarily make someone's writing great. However, it will certainly aid in avoiding the sorts of painful so-called stories which inspired me to write it in the first place. (I wrote it after reading several stories by authors who actually needed the advice in the first section.)
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    Goronda Type Vice-Webmaster Evil Figment's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    Originally posted by Mew2Too
    Yes, it is generally frowned upon to get under-descriptive. However, there is such a thing as being over-descriptive. Try, if you can, to describe the character as briefly as possible. After all, if you say, "[Character] had blonde, spikey hair," there is not much room for debate on what kind of hair said character has. Yet, I'd suggest not being underdescriptive.

    Agreed. Underdescriptive = bad AND the same can be said of overdescriptive, especially when you halt the action for an uninterupted page of description.

    Don't say stupid things like, "The trainer wore a shirt." Unless the character wasn't wearing a shirt in the last scene, and you're denoting he put one on in this scene, then try to get more descriptive. Is it a sweater? Is it a polo shirt? Is it a T-shirt, and is there anything unusual about it? What color is it? Once again, is the character wearing any shirt at all? Is the said character a girl not wearing a shirt, going topless because this is a lemon? What color panties are being worn by said character...

    LoL at the last two lines. Generally speaking, you can even skip mentioning the clothes, except for unusual features about them (say, if a character wears a dramatic-looking, flowing black cloak, you *should* point that out. On the other hand ,that the character is wearing a shirt should be unremarkalbe.,

    Unless, of course, there is something remarkable about the shirt - say, a crimson R on a white or black background.

    Don't shy away from the classic "he said, she said," format. Use it when it is appropriate, but don't use it in place of such old classics as "he/she asked, he/she croaked, he/she bellowed..." For God's sake, don't use, "He ejaculated," or "He jerked out." Trying to come up with too fancy a way to say, "he said/she said," can get as ugly as being repetitive with the phrase.

    DO shy away from the constant he/she use, though. And sometime, when it's obvious who said what, there's no need for the "he said" to be backed in.

    "Kasumi turned toward Satoshi, fear in her eyes.
    'We're lost, aren't we?'
    'No, we aren't. I'm just not quite sure of our current location.'"

    In there it's obviously who says what, adding the he/she said et al would only make for some burdensome reading. Only use the he/she said when it'S neded to clear up who's talking.

    Also, one way to get around using he/she said is to have the character does something else as they speak..

    "'We're lost, aren't we?' Kasumi turned toward Satoshi, eyes wide with fear.
    'Uh, no...' Satoshi fidgeted. 'I'm just not quit esure of our current location.'"
    "

    That doesn't mean you should leave out legendary starters entirely. I would leave out Mewtwo, if I were you. Try to avoid Mew, as well. But, what is so wrong with a trainer starting off with a baby version of a Lugia or Raikou? Nothing, really. We saw in the Lugia saga in Master Quest that the Lugia baby was definitely not as strong as an adult Lugia. The Celebi are another example of Pokemon that clearly aren't all-powerful in their younger stages. If you want to make it really good, don't forget to play on a baby legendary's weaknesses. For example, what would a Houndoom do to a baby Celebi? I think we both know the answer. What would an Electabuzz do to a baby Lugia? Do I even have to tell you?

    Not agreed on basic advice. As murg noted, once you know the rules, break them, but be careful about it. But I think "no legendary" is a good basic rule to get people to understand the principle of no overpowered pokemon.

    Anyway, I would suggest avoiding the whole "Professor" thing. That old-fashioned "Professor gave me a Pokie" thing is old.

    But as it is the basic of the pokemon fandom, I'd say it'S perfectly legitimate. Of course, the professor might have certain reasons to give you a pokemon other than you being an aspiring trainer (remember, in both the first three games he has a reason to give you a pokemon : in RBY, because you are about to venture outside without one and there are wild pokemon out there ; in GSC, because he wants you to have the protection while you run an errand for him, and in RS because he needs you to save him)

    Remember, thus, that professors do *NOT* give out pokemon to new trainers on a regular basis game-wise (also Murg, side note on the starter : easy availability doesn't seem to be the point, at least not in the game : Oak clearly state the three pokemon he offers are the three he has left from his training career, for example (and he only gives two ; one to you for the reasons mentioned before, and one to his own grandson. Similarly, Elm only gives one (the other is stolen) and Odamaki gives one to you to save him and one to his daughter/son ; that's all).

    In JTC, my first Pokemon was Vulpix. My grandfather, a Pokemon prof, didn't give him to me. My character lives in New Bark Town, but Vulpix wasn't given to me by Professor Elm. I went to Pallet after, and Oak helped Vulpix recover from a battle, but he did not give me Vulpix. Where did Vulpix come from? He was an orphaned cub in a patch of woods. I found him, helped him defeat some rabid Golbat, and so he came with me.

    That'S one way to do it, but not necessarily better nor worse than the professor one. Though I would probably have a "veteran trainer" (as the game imply) instead of a professor (anime-style) giving it out.

    If you're going to have a legendary following you around - say, Mewtwo - try to avoid match battles with him. Do really think Mewtwo is going to jump in and help you fight trainer X like a good wittle Pikachu would? Doubtful. Mewtwo is more likely to fight human beings than other Pokemon. If you say, "Mewtwo, get in there and fight Pornstar Jenna's Jynx with a Psychic attack," do you know what Mewtwo would say? Well, I'll let Mewtwo tell you.

    : What? Humiliate myself by supplicating to your selfish desires? You may kiss my...

    Okay, Mewtwo, that's enough! Now, if you were helping Mewtwo fend off intruders in Paradise Canyon...

    You: Mewtwo, I think you should kick this guy's @$$!

    : Yes, human! You are correct. This slime has come against me, and now he shall fall!


    Agreed generally. Unless the pokemon has extreme loyalty toward its trainer for some reason (*coughLatiasandAshexamplefromabovecough*), a legendary isn't going to go around fighting random fights for his trainer.

    I have been told that it is a bad idea to use yourself as a main character. This may be true, but not always. Sometimes, it is better to put yourself into a character than writing an empty character that you have no attachment to.

    It'S a great risk to take. We tend to portray ourselves as too perfect when we are set as characters, so...

    Try to keep yourself in check when writing a character based on yourself, though. The anti-autoficcers would tell you this is just as big a sin, but I see nothing wrong with making a character who is you - but more like what you aspire to be.

    That'S the whole problem. We ASPIRE to have qualities we don'T have. So what you actually write isn't how you would react in a situation, it'S how you would WANT to react in the situation.

    Which is the danger of "autofic" as youc all them : they make for too-perfect main characters.

    I hereby refuse to use "self-insertion," to describe a fic with one's self as the main char. I care to use "self-insertion" to describe said fiction as much as I would care to use "cockgobbler" to describe a dish of chicken and turkey.

    SI applies more to story where you insert yourself in the main contunuity (IE : Random trainer Bob and his friends meets and join with Ash and co for no real good reason other than the author want to be part of Ash's adventure. Subsequently Bob becomes the great hero replacing Ash who *should* be the focus point)

    Also, it is taboo, in Pokemon fiction, to refer to real human history unless the story takes place in this world. I have been told to change names and places to avoid this. That doesn't exactly work for me, but maybe it would for you. Try to change real events slightly - give them a twist - if you're going to use them as a template.

    *shrugs* There are lots of way there. It's obvious that if, in your mind, the pokemon world is another totaly unrelated to ours, they won't know about our history, for example.

    Also, be a little more discerning about the names you change. Don't just change them, change them well. Don't write a Pokemon military story where Surge and crew have been dispatched by "President Mush" to fight "Musama min Madden" and "Guddam Gussein." ( That is, unless it's a comedy. )

    Obviously. Better yet, don't just change the name, change the events somewhat too. It's boring to have just changed names around.

    Try not to incorporate direct relgious ideas into a story. Don't have Jesus Christ training an Espeon, in other words. ( Once again, unless it's a comedy. )

    Not quite agreed, but I will stay silent as to the why... (Well, of course Jesus training an Espeon is a bit out of the whack, but...well, as I said, you'll eventually see why my caveat about incorporating religious ideas is there)

    Instead, incorporate some basic religious ideas into your story. Feel free to mix and match. Does your character remind you of a religious figure? Is he a little bit like him? Believe me, I could go on for hours about fictitious characters that I believe are based on Jesus alone. (Vash the Stampede, Aragorn the Strider, etc.)

    Heh. Well, of course that's an obvious on, and I know at least one character I'm writing about who's very much based on Jesus, at least on some points.

    Some people will tell you not to use Satoshi/Ash and gang in your stories. I would advise the same. This goes especially if you're writing about the Japanese show, know what the hell you're talking about, and write a story about. I mean, if you write a story, say, about Kasumi returning and training Haruka, and then start having all the characters talk very unlike what dub-grubbers are used to, then...

    Ah! Never mind! Just trust me from personal experience. Peeps, unless your writing a shippy fic, don't write Satoshi-tachi stories. You won't get many reads if you do.


    Remind me what'S just about the most legendary, mythical fic of the pokemon fandom?

    That'S right. Pokemon Master. An Ash-tachi story.

    And remind me what's FAR AND WIDE the most popular "long" fic on this board?

    The Greater Evil, with 231 posts more than its closest rival (your own JTC). Another Ash story.

    In the history of TPM, there were both non-Ash and Ash stories among the very popular one ; the older version of The Greater Evil and Twistes Paths, Forgotten Pasts by Timarelay would be example of the later.

    I rest my case.

    Of course, does that matter? You should be writing, not for the approval of the masses, but for your own satisfaction. Once it starts becoming only about compromising the flavor of your vision to please the taste-buds of the readers, then you're through. You must understand, these are just guidelines that we lay out. If you think you have a better idea that could attract more readers, than for God's sake - do it! Remember, though, you should be telling a story - one that you like!

    Just think of it this way - you have to keep the story alive in your heart before it becomes interesting. It helps to think, "Wow! This story really happened somewhere! I'm just typing it out for everyone to enjoy!"


    Yep, thinking it Tolkien-style is nice. [/B]
    Last edited by Evil Figment; 8th February 2003 at 02:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mintaka and Hurristat
    He's an evil director / He'll give out infractions / Do something wrong / And he takes direct actions
    Then what'll he do?/ He'll permaban you / You find your name slashed / With a message, 'Adieu'
    Sooooo...watch out!
    "It is said that the federal government, if it was in charge of the Sahara, would run out of sand in five years. Private enterprise, being more efficient, would do it in half the time - and they'd make money off the bridges." - me.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." - Jack Layton's last letter. Rest in peace, Jack.

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    Unseen Watcher Murgatroyd's Avatar
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    Remember, thus, that professors do *NOT* give out pokemon to new trainers on a regular basis game-wise (also Murg, side note on the starter : easy availability doesn't seem to be the point, at least not in the game : Oak clearly state the three pokemon he offers are the three he has left from his training career, for example (and he only gives two ; one to you for the reasons mentioned before, and one to his own grandson. Similarly, Elm only gives one (the other is stolen) and Odamaki gives one to you to save him and one to his daughter/son ; that's all).
    At the time I wrote this, the anime was the only form of canon I was familiar with. I had never played the game. The anime is still my preferred canon.

    Now, in the anime, the professors do give out pokemon on a fairly regular basis, and each one that we know of tends to give out the same types each time. Elm has given out the Chikorita/Totodile/Cyndaquil set on at least two known occasions, and he knew that Ash was from Pallet Town just by hearing that the choices were Bulbasaur, Squirtle, and Charmander, implying that Oak gives out those three with some frequency. We don't (yet) have enough information to make any statement about Odamaki.
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    Goronda Type Vice-Webmaster Evil Figment's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    True on the anime canon, and I won't challenge you there.

    However, it makes for boring and predictable stuff to start "Oh, you want to be a trainer! Here's a pokemon!"

    In the games, it was presented as an older trainer giving out a pokemon for some (usually good reason) more than as a "Official distributor of starter pokemon", which isn't a bad idea at all IMHO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mintaka and Hurristat
    He's an evil director / He'll give out infractions / Do something wrong / And he takes direct actions
    Then what'll he do?/ He'll permaban you / You find your name slashed / With a message, 'Adieu'
    Sooooo...watch out!
    "It is said that the federal government, if it was in charge of the Sahara, would run out of sand in five years. Private enterprise, being more efficient, would do it in half the time - and they'd make money off the bridges." - me.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." - Jack Layton's last letter. Rest in peace, Jack.

  14. #29
    You know, for kids! A Concerned Solomon's Avatar
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    Hey! I broke half of these and still received forty positive reviews! (That up against two negative.)

    You should mention that breaking these unwritten rules in a tongue-in-cheek manner can be funny. Like the bizzare friendship between Cooltrainer Beth and Fisherman Ralph.

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    Jellybaby for your brain! Mew2Too's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Murgatroyd
    Yes, many of the greatest writers achieve their best effects by breaking the "rules" that others would set out. However, as a fairly skilled amateur writer I know once said, it's important to know the rules before you start breaking them. Following the advice in my little rant won't necessarily make someone's writing great. However, it will certainly aid in avoiding the sorts of painful so-called stories which inspired me to write it in the first place. (I wrote it after reading several stories by authors who actually needed the advice in the first section.)
    Heh heh! Yup, I know what you mean. Hopefully, though, the majority of writers are going to know grammar and how to make it work for them before they start writing. I think that comes through reading. I admit, until I started reading avidly once more, JTC was in a slump. As it is, JTC is now back in the drawing room. I know there were a lot of mistakes that were made, and the style was mediocre. Now that I've started reading again, I think it's gotten better. Blackjack Gabbiani might be able to atest to that. She's already read the new first chapter of JTC.

    Originally posted by Damian Silverblade
    DO shy away from the constant he/she use, though. And sometime, when it's obvious who said what, there's no need for the "he said" to be backed in.

    "Kasumi turned toward Satoshi, fear in her eyes.
    'We're lost, aren't we?'
    'No, we aren't. I'm just not quite sure of our current location.'"

    In there it's obviously who says what, adding the he/she said et al would only make for some burdensome reading. Only use the he/she said when it'S neded to clear up who's talking.

    Also, one way to get around using he/she said is to have the character does something else as they speak..

    "'We're lost, aren't we?' Kasumi turned toward Satoshi, eyes wide with fear.
    'Uh, no...' Satoshi fidgeted. 'I'm just not quit esure of our current location.'"
    "
    This one works out especially well when doing the Rocket poem. I mean, we already know who says which line, don't we?

    Not agreed on basic advice. As murg noted, once you know the rules, break them, but be careful about it. But I think "no legendary" is a good basic rule to get people to understand the principle of no overpowered pokemon.
    Yeah, you've got at least one thing right. I think, surprising enough, peeps go into Pokemon fanfics with too little knowledge of Pokemon! Think about it this way, the Mewtwo movie is a little outdated. If any single one of those trainers had possessed a Dark type, Mewtwo wouldn't have stood a chance. In JTC, this is stated pretty strongly. Well, until later, but that's not relevant right now.

    But as it is the basic of the pokemon fandom, I'd say it'S perfectly legitimate. Of course, the professor might have certain reasons to give you a pokemon other than you being an aspiring trainer (remember, in both the first three games he has a reason to give you a pokemon : in RBY, because you are about to venture outside without one and there are wild pokemon out there ; in GSC, because he wants you to have the protection while you run an errand for him, and in RS because he needs you to save him)
    True for the games, not necessarily for the anime. Why else would they have given Oak a TV spot the night before. It was almost as though Oak were giving out hoardes of those bloody things. Funny that in "Dig Those Diglett," and "Showdown at the PoKe Corral," that it was mentioned only four trainers left Pallet.

    Remember, thus, that professors do *NOT* give out pokemon to new trainers on a regular basis game-wise (also Murg, side note on the starter : easy availability doesn't seem to be the point, at least not in the game : Oak clearly state the three pokemon he offers are the three he has left from his training career, for example (and he only gives two ; one to you for the reasons mentioned before, and one to his own grandson. Similarly, Elm only gives one (the other is stolen) and Odamaki gives one to you to save him and one to his daughter/son ; that's all).


    Yeah, which was a cool thought. :sigh: Unfortunately, the anime seems to pay little respect to the game. The ultimate example of this is the virtual abundance of Johto Pokemon in Hoenn.

    That'S one way to do it, but not necessarily better nor worse than the professor one. Though I would probably have a "veteran trainer" (as the game imply) instead of a professor (anime-style) giving it out.
    Well, now there's a thought. Don't forget, though, that movie 4 established that Oak was, at one time, a Pokemon trainer himself. Of course, we didn't know that from the first episode.

    It'S a great risk to take. We tend to portray ourselves as too perfect when we are set as characters, so...
    Yes, that can cause problems. Which brings me to...

    That'S the whole problem. We ASPIRE to have qualities we don'T have. So what you actually write isn't how you would react in a situation, it'S how you would WANT to react in the situation.

    Which is the danger of "autofic" as youc all them : they make for too-perfect main characters.
    That's no excuse for not putting faults into your character. I don't really believe that you're any more likely to put imperfections into another character than you would put them into a self-based character. That is to say, you wouldn't do so if you weren't accustomed to dropping in such imperfections in the first place.

    So, you must always put imperfections into a character. Sorry, if you do end up with Jesus training that Espeon, he's going to have to be imperfect for one story.

    SI applies more to story where you insert yourself in the main contunuity (IE : Random trainer Bob and his friends meets and join with Ash and co for no real good reason other than the author want to be part of Ash's adventure. Subsequently Bob becomes the great hero replacing Ash who *should* be the focus point)
    That isn't to say you can't have your character meet with or even team-up with Ash and crew. The importan thing is you must have your character grounded in his own mythos first. I wouldn't start out with your char travelling with Ash, if I were you.

    *shrugs* There are lots of way there. It's obvious that if, in your mind, the pokemon world is another totaly unrelated to ours, they won't know about our history, for example.
    Unless, you're trying to achieve the effect that the real world and the Pokemon one split off from each other at some point in history.

    Obviously. Better yet, don't just change the name, change the events somewhat too. It's boring to have just changed names around.
    For example, the war on terror doesn't begin until 2005. The trade towers are, yes, knocked down. The reasons are a little different. The criminal rogue known as Public Enemy No. 1, commences the attacks because he was refused possession of Mewtwo. This becomes a real problem for the main character, because he possess Mewtwo. It also becomes a problem for Mewtwo, because... Well, to state the obvious while making a long story short, they think it was their fault!

    Not quite agreed, but I will stay silent as to the why... (Well, of course Jesus training an Espeon is a bit out of the whack, but...well, as I said, you'll eventually see why my caveat about incorporating religious ideas is there)
    I think already know. So, in that case, present company is excepted from said advice.

    Heh. Well, of course that's an obvious on, and I know at least one character I'm writing about who's very much based on Jesus, at least on some points.
    I hope it isn't Satoshi!

    Remind me what'S just about the most legendary, mythical fic of the pokemon fandom?

    That'S right. Pokemon Master. An Ash-tachi story.

    And remind me what's FAR AND WIDE the most popular "long" fic on this board?

    The Greater Evil, with 231 posts more than its closest rival (your own JTC). Another Ash story.
    The funny thing is, if JTC gets as far as I want it to, it will surprass TGE, probably. (In number of chapters within stories, I mean.)

    Whether or not those chapters will meet the excellence of TGE remains to be seen.

    In any case, if you think you can improve on Ash-tachi, do it for heaven's sake! However, I've found people do not want to hear about something Ash-tachi might really do on the series. Also, I don't know if anyone's ready for a series-true AG story either. I don't think people believed me when I said Haruka was a little whiny! Clearly, it didn't help that I was very anti-Haruka at one time.

    In the history of TPM, there were both non-Ash and Ash stories among the very popular one ; the older version of The Greater Evil and Twistes Paths, Forgotten Pasts by Timarelay would be example of the later.
    I can remember a few from the history of BulbaGarden. (Of course, I don't think JTC numbered among them. :shudders: Let's not talk about the old JTC. let me just say, compared to the old ones, the new ones are Shakespeare.)

    Yep, thinking it Tolkien-style is nice.
    Which is a format that even Peter Jackson held to when doing FoTR The Movie.
    Last edited by Mew2Too; 8th February 2003 at 03:58 PM.
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