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    Requiem Raver Drakon's Avatar
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    Default Adapting Game Moves and Mechanics to Stories

    This is inspired by the academy thread but it focuses on moves and abilities.

    Exactly as the title says.

    Do you directly port over stats and stat changes? Do you throw out the system completely? Or do you modify the game system?

    --------

    I prefer to throw out the game system and cobble together my own. Simply because the game system is too simplistic and just plain doesn't work in a real-time, freeform battle that I tend to write my pokèmon battles as.

    I'm still formalizing it but here's what I have so far:

    I disregard numerical stats but I do hint that some pokèmon might be stronger or faster than others due to a genetic basis. EVs are ignored completely.

    Also of note is that evasion boosting moves are treated more like a flashbang — something to confuse your opponents with.

    Morever, projectile attacks essentially ignore typing.

    Attacks can be combined to devastating or not effect.

    Competitors can also use "environmental attacks" such as throwing sand at your opponent, collapsing part of the arena on them, etc.

    Held items can be forcibly removed and used against the bearer — even if the attacker doesn't know Thief or Fling.

    Fling is treated as an inherent "ability".

    Every attack can be used in an offensive manner.

    Some moves are specifically banned from competition because they are simply too dangerous. An example from one of my fics was "Aqua Laser" – a Water Gun attack that acted more like a blade of water.
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    Default Re: Adapting Game Moves and Mechanics to Stories

    It depends on the attack. Like double team I pull an anime trick, same with stringshot, but some things I probably wouldn't even use or would just state that the pokemon becomes stronger from it or the other weaker. And when it comes to describing them I tend to aim more for the game animation or my own depending on the move. Depending on the move I would also adapt some into offense, like tail whip for example or water sport.

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    Default Re: Adapting Game Moves and Mechanics to Stories

    Thought about how Smeargle sketches a move and how it's Transform differs from a Dittos or Mews. Ditto can only Transform into what they see because their too simple to use long-term knowledge. Mew in the first movie could freely Transform, so the move is limited to what a Pokemon "remembers". Mews Transform would be caused by Psychic powers while Dittos would be molding itself into the target.

    Smeargle is neither Psychic nor can freely change its shape. It learns moves by studying them and possibly adapting the moves to its physiology. In the case of Transform, I always imagined Smeargle would cover itself with a thick paint from its tail and that paint would take shape. I'd imagine the amount of paint used and the time it took to transform was relative to the size of what it's turning into.

    Also, since Smeargle has a memory like a steel trap it would be a safe bet it could transform into whatever it's studied before and is not limited like a Ditto. Posted an idea for "Mega Smeargle" based on this idea with the ability "All For One" that caused Smeargle to change its appearance, typing and stats at the start of the turn based on which move was selected. It would retain its ability, causing it to constantly change through battle and really throw the opponent off. It would retain its EVs and IVs, but it's stats would alter based on form taken.
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    Default Re: Adapting Game Moves and Mechanics to Stories

    Since The Long Walk is more or less anime-verse, I've been using the game mechanics as a guide and then applying a big dose of common-sense. There are some moves that would potentially throw up questions, though. Take Trick Room. In the anime we're shown that Trick Room covers the boundaries of the official field, but what happens in the wild? Does it have a radius? What happens if a pokémon steps out of the radius of effect and throws a projectile into the radius of effect?
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    Default Re: Adapting Game Moves and Mechanics to Stories

    I tend to stick as closely to the games as realistically possible, citing the idea that the League would have pretty tight restrictions on how a lot of moves can be used. While this does severely limit how dynamic a battle can be, it also ensures that it's safe for the participants.

    Of course, exceptions may be made in cases of actual danger, such as villainous teams. My villains tend to rely on actual weaponry, though; Pokémon are secondary.

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    Default Re: Adapting Game Moves and Mechanics to Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Pavell View Post
    Since The Long Walk is more or less anime-verse, I've been using the game mechanics as a guide and then applying a big dose of common-sense. There are some moves that would potentially throw up questions, though. Take Trick Room. In the anime we're shown that Trick Room covers the boundaries of the official field, but what happens in the wild? Does it have a radius? What happens if a pokémon steps out of the radius of effect and throws a projectile into the radius of effect?
    I would imagine things like this work like holodecks on Star Trek. The target is "trapped" in a little subspace bubble created, and while it may perceive that it's moving, it actually isn't. So it can't leave the effect of the Trick Room, and when utilized by a Pokemon in battle, it would likely "cast the spell" on the target, rather than a specific area.



    As for me? I don't really like how the anime portrays battles. Shouting out named commands to sentient, incredibly intelligent creatures seems silly, especially since those creatures are perfectly capable of battling on their own before being captured by a trainer. To me, the trainer is the conductor, employing strategy and logic to refine the Pokemon's battle technique; while capable of defending itself, it's up to the trainer to make the difference. Imagine the Pokemon as a military sniper, and the trainer is the sniper's spotter, the person who observes the battlefield, troop movements and the location of enemy assets to analyze the most important target and direct his/her partner to it.

    While I'm against shouting out names of moves and abilities, I try to stay true to how they're portrayed, though I will throw in my own crazy mixups. Things as simple as a tackle or a scratch need no explanation, while something like Fire Punch would get quite a bit to show what's going on. I generally try to avoid altering how moves work too much, so that if the reader knows the name's move, they can bridge that gap themselves, offering a rudimentary form of interaction that most Pokemon fanfiction seems to lack.

    The only mechanics I really feel comfortable altering are how types interact with each other, to offer a bit of realism. In my story, types don't exist in the strictest sense. They are more proficient with certain types of attacks (say, water or fire based). For example, I had a Luxio battling a Wooper. Wooper is water/ground type, as we all know. In the end, it was an electrical based attack that spelled the Wooper's demise. I mean, think about it. Electricity bloody hurts, right?

    So, Electric type attacks can be used on pretty much anything, though obviously there will be varying degrees of effectiveness. Rock and Steel types are monstrous juggernauts that can only be destroyed from extreme physical forces, such as high velocity impacts, extreme heat/cold, or psychic-based attacks. Ghosts are a whole separate story that throw precedent out the window.

    To me, it's all about a realistic, yet slightly fantasy-based approach that favors the trainer's skills at analysis and their own previous experiences. It's a direction I wish Pokemon would go (in terms of the story, it's already present in the games, where your knowledge usually affects how things turn out), but I realize it won't as long as Ash is bumbling his way through region after region.
    Last edited by Caitlin; 31st January 2014 at 11:10 AM.

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    Default Re: Adapting Game Moves and Mechanics to Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Pavell View Post
    ...applying a big dose of common-sense.
    /thread

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    Default Re: Adapting Game Moves and Mechanics to Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Caitlin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pavell View Post
    Since The Long Walk is more or less anime-verse, I've been using the game mechanics as a guide and then applying a big dose of common-sense. There are some moves that would potentially throw up questions, though. Take Trick Room. In the anime we're shown that Trick Room covers the boundaries of the official field, but what happens in the wild? Does it have a radius? What happens if a pokémon steps out of the radius of effect and throws a projectile into the radius of effect?
    I would imagine things like this work like holodecks on Star Trek. The target is "trapped" in a little subspace bubble created, and while it may perceive that it's moving, it actually isn't. So it can't leave the effect of the Trick Room, and when utilized by a Pokemon in battle, it would likely "cast the spell" on the target, rather than a specific area.



    As for me? I don't really like how the anime portrays battles. Shouting out named commands to sentient, incredibly intelligent creatures seems silly, especially since those creatures are perfectly capable of battling on their own before being captured by a trainer. To me, the trainer is the conductor, employing strategy and logic to refine the Pokemon's battle technique; while capable of defending itself, it's up to the trainer to make the difference. Imagine the Pokemon as a military sniper, and the trainer is the sniper's spotter, the person who observes the battlefield, troop movements and the location of enemy assets to analyze the most important target and direct his/her partner to it.

    While I'm against shouting out names of moves and abilities, I try to stay true to how they're portrayed, though I will throw in my own crazy mixups. Things as simple as a tackle or a scratch need no explanation, while something like Fire Punch would get quite a bit to show what's going on. I generally try to avoid altering how moves work too much, so that if the reader knows the name's move, they can bridge that gap themselves, offering a rudimentary form of interaction that most Pokemon fanfiction seems to lack.

    The only mechanics I really feel comfortable altering are how types interact with each other, to offer a bit of realism. In my story, types don't exist in the strictest sense. They are more proficient with certain types of attacks (say, water or fire based). For example, I had a Luxio battling a Wooper. Wooper is water/ground type, as we all know. In the end, it was an electrical based attack that spelled the Wooper's demise. I mean, think about it. Electricity bloody hurts, right?

    So, Electric type attacks can be used on pretty much anything, though obviously there will be varying degrees of effectiveness. Rock and Steel types are monstrous juggernauts that can only be destroyed from extreme physical forces, such as high velocity impacts, extreme heat/cold, or psychic-based attacks. Ghosts are a whole separate story that throw precedent out the window.

    To me, it's all about a realistic, yet slightly fantasy-based approach that favors the trainer's skills at analysis and their own previous experiences. It's a direction I wish Pokemon would go (in terms of the story, it's already present in the games, where your knowledge usually affects how things turn out), but I realize it won't as long as Ash is bumbling his way through region after region.
    I see your point about Trainer/Pokemon interaction, but I disagree on the type thing. I see types as one part of Poke-Earth's equal to the biological classification system. A type means a Pokemon has certain physical traits and adaptations, and the trick is to figure out how their strengths and weaknesses work, and what that implies about the characteristics of a type. Some advantages are easy, and based in real world logic, some are harder. The best example of this idea from the anime is the Treecko episode, where Treecko avoids electricity once, but gets hurt the second time. Max even points out how that shouldn't be possible given that he's a Grass type. And the writers had Brock give a clever answer. He says that most Pokemon that are strong against electricity are usually that way because they can diffuse it into a tree or the ground, but they can't do that in mid-air. With the first hit, Treecko was standing. With the second, he had just jumped.

    This implies that one of the characteristics of Grass types (and Ground types too when you think about it) is being adapted to ground themselves against electricity so they don't get hurt. This type of strategy works for them most of the time. Ground types seem to be burrowers by nature, and use terrain to their advantage. So they like to be close to the ground, always within reach of protection against electricity. Grass types, being part plant, are usually found near trees or plants, and seem to favor being close to the ground as well. This tactic works so frequently that it would not be unreasonable to declare they have an advantage against Electric types, because 99% of the time they would. But there are potential loopholes. In Treecko's case, it's a jumper, so there are moments where it is vulnerable. So with your Whooper example, it could still resist the shock and be defeated by it, if you managed to make it unable to redirect the blast.

    Figuring out how types work for me can be difficult. I've looked at TV Tropes for ideas, and in some cases I may end up disregarding the type advantage if I just can't make sense of it. But generally I've tried to make it work.

    And I too wish the anime were better at adapting things. Sometimes they are, and sometimes they make it too much like a game advertisement.

    As for moves, like some of the others, I would take it on a case by case basis and try to work out what the attack would look like in a realistic setting. I can understand the idea of move limits, but I wouldn't count basic things like Agility, Tackle, or attacks that are basic for a type (like Flamethrower to a Fire type, Water Gun to a Water type). Fire Spin on the other hand might count.

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    Default Re: Adapting Game Moves and Mechanics to Stories

    To give a minor example, I write Assist as a move that can copy any attack the Pokemon seen from friend and foe. I also show Razor Shell being thrown like a boomerang with a curved blade while also being handled like a sword.

    As for the Pokemon/Trainer interaction, I have to disagree with the "human calling the shots being dumb" notion. A battle (as in a fair fight and not against any miscreants looking to kill you) is to display the bond between the Trainer and Pokemon and how much they have faith in each other. The Pokemon trusts their Trainer (who's essentially their coach and team leader) to know which moves and tactics will be able to win the match while the Trainer trusts their Pokemon to have the power and skill to carry out their orders. The Pokemon can make their own move but choose to put their faith in their Trainer when in an official match unless it's an emergency where their up against, say, Team Rocket who clearly won't fight fair. There, anything goes.

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    Default Re: Adapting Game Moves and Mechanics to Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by Caitlin View Post
    To me, it's all about a realistic, yet slightly fantasy-based approach that favors the trainer's skills at analysis and their own previous experiences. It's a direction I wish Pokemon would go (in terms of the story, it's already present in the games, where your knowledge usually affects how things turn out), but I realize it won't as long as Ash is bumbling his way through region after region.
    In this latest season Froakie was using pieces of its sticky frill to slow down opponents or hold them still. This isn't a move from what I can tell nor an ability, yet Ash is able to recognize its usefulness and has utilized it in battle. Its the equivalent of telling a Wailord to roll over to win a fight and does show some common sense prevailing IMO.
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    Default Re: Adapting Game Moves and Mechanics to Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by PiccoloX83 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caitlin View Post
    To me, it's all about a realistic, yet slightly fantasy-based approach that favors the trainer's skills at analysis and their own previous experiences. It's a direction I wish Pokemon would go (in terms of the story, it's already present in the games, where your knowledge usually affects how things turn out), but I realize it won't as long as Ash is bumbling his way through region after region.
    In this latest season Froakie was using pieces of its sticky frill to slow down opponents or hold them still. This isn't a move from what I can tell nor an ability, yet Ash is able to recognize its usefulness and has utilized it in battle. Its the equivalent of telling a Wailord to roll over to win a fight and does show some common sense prevailing IMO.
    That's really interesting. And that's one of those moments where the writers are thinking in a more realistic manner and not simply making the anime a pure game advertisement. If only they did that with more frequency.

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    Default Re: Adapting Game Moves and Mechanics to Stories

    Regarding on the Pokemon battle system in my fic, I do not follow the game-verse nor the anime-verse. I merely adapting the basic elements of the basis about Pokemon battle from the Pokemon game, ignoring all the mechanical system that are meant for mechanically programmed RPG games, and insert many other "realistic" semi-original concepts.
    So to put it more specifically, in my fic, there are absolutely no numerical stats and/or any other numerical parameters such as PP/level/EV/IV, no move limits, no specific stats advantage and/or disadvantage due to the nature, no power and accuracy specific to a move, etc. The things that are from the battle system of the game will merely be type effectiveness, names of the moves and the basic mechanism of the moves, abilities of the Pokemon, battle experience (but excluding levels), etc.

    But, although I do adapt things like types, abilities, moves, or even experience from the game, but it is not really the same way of execution as like the game nor even the anime.

    Firstly, for type effectiveness on attacks and defenses, I described them as the elemental power within the body and attacks of the Pokemon, so the effectiveness will be as such of the in-game type chart. But under specific circumstances (such as when a soaked Pokemon attacked by electric attacks, the frozen Pokemon attacked by fire attacks, etc), the effectiveness may differ.
    Although I took the in-game type chart for granted, but type is really not the primary factor to lead to victory. Yeah, attacking with an attack of the type that the opponent is resist against does induce damage rate lower than usual, but it doesn't mean it causes absolutely no damage to the point of immuning. Such type handicap can be easily overcame by the attacking power of the Pokemon (Even inside the game, my lv.85 Delcatty can overthrow a lv.40 Lairon without much difficulty, using only Normal-type attacks. But this level difference might be a bit too extreme). For many times inside my fic, types effectiveness are just not mentioned, or sometimes ignored, because it is just not principally important for the trainer to be included in considering their battle strategies, nor it is important to be included in the in-fic battle descriptions. To me personally, the battle expertness and the attack strength of the Pokemon is the primary and most important factor to be considered.

    For the abilities, I described them as some skills, physical characteristics, or species-specific mentality a Pokemon is born intrinsically with, where such abilities will causes influences to the environment or to the opponent or on the Pokemon itself. Abilities are originally part of the Pokemon biology, but not part of the battle. But when the abilities are to be included inside the battles, the minor influence it induced may somehow assist or handicap the Pokemon.
    For example, Groudon and Kyogre's Drought and Drizzle is an intrinsic skill that both has which causes a massive change of weather, hence a skill that influence the environment. Poison Point is an intrinsic physical body feature many Poison-typed Pokemon had, which induce poison to the opponent upon physical contacts. Oblivious is more like an deficient mentality some Pokemon had intrinsically, such that is causes them to be indifferent towards sexual attractions. But, for the ability Intimidate, IMO it just means the Pokemon have an intrinsic scary atmosphere, it effectiveness thus will depends highly on the mental stability of the opponent, it doesn't work against Pokemon that has high competitive mind or with bravery nature.
    And BTW, because I regarded abilities as an inborn characteristic, hence there is no Skill Swap move in my fic to forcefully exchange abilities between two Pokemons. Gastro Acid works only on the advantageous abilities, but will not cause much effects on the disadvantageous abilities. For the mentality abilities, it may changes when the Pokemon grows up and gains more life experiences.

    And for the moves, this is just so difficult to explain fully about my approach, because I don't just have the moves executed as like the in-game battle animation. The in-game moves to me is more like a fundamental tutorial showing the basic mechanism of the moves, but how to twist that mechanism will depends on the creativity of the fanfic author.
    I did almost all of the above authors had already tried in their "realistic" approaches, such as using attack moves on the environment rather than on the opponents; using some in-game harmless status move in creative ways such that it become damage-inducing, or execute them in a different way such that it will become a supporting move; changing turn-based moves to become time-based; the things that are not consider as moves are used in battle as well; combining two or more moves (linking the moves as like in Pokemon Dungeon series) to execute them at the same time or consecutively; or even create some original moves that are not seen in the game nor anime. BTW, even the moves in the TCG series become one of my move reference.
    And BTW, although within the game, moves are named universally, but the way of execution, the general power, also hidden effects are differ between each Pokemon despite that they all use the move of the same name. For example, the Houndoom's flame is said to contain toxin that it induces everlasting pain on the opponent, Ponyta/Rapidash can control its flame temperature such that it can selectively choose which to harm and which to be undamaged, in the Pokemon Special Manga Entei's flame had purifying effects that can annihilate the "evilness". So even it is the same Flamethrower attack, it is completely different between the three Pokemons. So inside my headcanon, I regarded the three Flamethrower attacks of the three Pokemon as three different moves, I even renamed them into three different names.

    There are no moves limits in my fic, and there are no variety limitation of moves a Pokemon may used in any sort of battle. But, just in official trainer vs trainer battles, there exist limitation to attacking power, where it is ethically prohibited from killing the opponent's Pokemon. So many of the powerful moves need to be "power-down" in order to be used in official battles.

    BTW, although I said that I didn't use the numerical stats as like the game, but the distribution of stats of a Pokemon inside the game does give me an idea of the natural strength and weakness about a Pokemon. For example, Pikachu had highest base stats in the speed department, so it shows clearly that speed (IMO, it may probably means agility also. Please note speed =/= agility, where I always separate the two within my headcanon) is the best intrinsic aptitude Pikachu had. The value of stats is not the important things in here, but the stats distribution is an important informtion.

    And regarding on my approach of how trainer "instruct" his/her Pokemon during battle in my fic, this post had already discussed.


    Yeah, so in short, I just dump away the in-game battle system completely in my fic, and replace it with a much more "realistic" approach in my personal original style.
    Last edited by クリスタル; 6th February 2014 at 04:02 PM.
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    Default Re: Adapting Game Moves and Mechanics to Stories

    Quote Originally Posted by クリスタル View Post
    There are no moves limits in my fic, and there are no variety limitation of moves a Pokemon may used in any sort of battle. But, just in official trainer vs trainer battles, there exist limitation to attacking power, where it is ethically prohibited from killing the opponent's Pokemon. So many of the powerful moves need to be "power-down" in order to be used in official battles.
    The concept of needing to power down stuff like one hit KO moves makes sense and is something I do too.

    My canon regarding this is that if a one hit KO move is (type-wise, since it doesn't matter in the games obviously) super effective it always kills the target. If it's somewhat effective (1x) then it might kill the target and will definitely knock the target unconscious (sometimes putting them into a coma, it can get nasty). If it's not very effective then it will just knock out the target pretty gruesomely but nothing that a visit to the Pokemon Center won't fix. Due to this, one hit KO moves are allowed, but generally frowned upon. Trainers almost never use them unless they must, and then usually the not very effective ones. These kind of moves can't be held back by their very nature. Stabbing something with a spinning horn is stabbing something with a spinning horn. You can't "kind of" stab something with a spinning horn.

    Other generally powerful moves just tend to be held back in competitive battling. A hyper beam, for example, can kill no problem, but is incredibly exhausting. A watered down version is used in battle to be non-lethal and so that the Pokemon can recover more quickly.

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    Default Re: Adapting Game Moves and Mechanics to Stories

    I keep the four-move limits and write how Pokemon remember how to do the moves, they just don't have the power to carry it out. Well, for most moves. That and I couldn't possibly keep track of anything above four moves.

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    Default Re: Adapting Game Moves and Mechanics to Stories

    Attack form varies with the pokèmon.

    Draco Meteor as an example.

    Gible — single shot like a mortar round.

    Garchomp — multiple projectiles like an artillery barrage.

    Palkia (Legendaries) — Massive beam like the Tiberian Sun ion cannon or multiple, highly destructive projectiles like a MIRV from a ICBM.
    What are the Legendaries really like? Find out in The Life of the Legendaries

    Humans and pokémon no longer live in harmony. Hear their tales in The Poké Wars Chronicles: Tales From A World At War

    Cynthia once had it all: powerful pokémon, fame and hordes of adoring fans. But Ho-oh's campaign tears her life asunder. Now to survive this deadly new world, she must do the one thing that she never wanted: kill. Follow her trials through a world at war in Poké Wars: Downfall of a Champion

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