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  1. #31
    Head of the URPG HKim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokemon Missions: Advanced!

    As food for thought, I have here the two initial trials I ran for the Missions back on PE2K.

    They never were finished (being trials and all, that's to be expected) but it can give you an idea of how it's supposed to work.

    I tried to vary the two missions slightly, and how each group reacted generally gave way to how I responded. Possible improvements include having another Dungeon Master to help out and keep the plot moving as well as not dragging out every little detail.

    Still, the quality here is decent and it's the general direction we probably want to go. Also, each team had a cool name.

    Mission Trial: Eccentric Lunatics
    Mission Trial: Fabulae Textores

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Pokemon Missions: Advanced!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trilobyte View Post
    Well, the plan was to post said draft. However, things came along (said things being distractions/ref requests) and such has resulted in delays. However, the status effects draft will be up sometime early next week.
    Disregard this message here, life sucked cocks.

    Status draft will be up within the next 48 hours if lucky.

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  3. #33
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    Default Re: Pokemon Missions: Advanced!

    Looking forward to this more and more; the regular RPs don't have enough plotline for me to really enjoy. I think that if there was a goal we were all striving for, it would lead to more cohesion in the posts, and hopefully more regular posters.
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  4. #34
    Head of the URPG HKim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokemon Missions: Advanced!

    Okay, we'll get to Trilobyte whenever he's ready.

    In the meantime let's discuss a few ideas. Feel free to say anything you want. We all want to make this the best section it could be and that only works when everyone is involved. I have only one perspective, ultimately, and you have all the rest. So let's get started.

    Additionally, as we settle various aspects of Pokemon Missions, I'm going to edit it into the front post or create a new thread for it so we can mark our progress! Let's aim for the top!


    Leveling

    I like the idea with the leveling system, though I'm not sure how we could implement it where each level gives you extra powers like most games. After all, this is about roleplaying and your strength is ultimately determined by your RP ability more than anything else. A Cleffa can beat a Garchomp with good RPing.

    I see it as a good way to keep track of one's progress. Your level could be an indication of how many Missions you've accomplished (like maybe finishing 4 or 5 missions earns you a level). Additionally, perhaps we can create prizes for when you reach the next level, such as extra items, money, or even Pokemon at higher positions.

    Additionally, we could make it so that being a higher level earns you more rewards than a lower level. So if a group of 5 people complete a mission (Three Lv. 1 and Two Lv. 2), the Lv. 2's would receive a slightly better prize than the Lv. 1's. I'm actually not sure about this idea yet, but I figured I could throw it out there and see if I'm completely crazy or somewhere on the money.

    The big thing that will appeal to all of us is that we could create Missions that are designed for higher level roleplayers, aka, experienced roleplayers. These mission would be more challenging and perhaps require more dedication and creativity. A greater risk for greater reward. It's the same way how only members with a complete set of league badges can challenge the Elite 4. You earn your way to participate in these Advanced Missions.

    Anyway, that's only one aspect of the RP for now. Let's discuss it, settle it, so we can move on to another!

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    Default Re: Pokemon Missions: Advanced!

    Hmm. I would have actually thought that using lower level Pokemon would provide a greater reward.
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    Angry about Outer Heavens ChainReaction01's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokemon Missions: Advanced!

    I apologise for this massive post, but I'm in a debating class, and I have a fair bit of experience with roleplaying and video games, both playing/roleplaying and creating them.

    Quote Originally Posted by "HKim'
    I like the idea with the leveling system, though I'm not sure how we could implement it where each level gives you extra powers like most games. After all, this is about roleplaying and your strength is ultimately determined by your RP ability more than anything else. A Cleffa can beat a Garchomp with good RPing.
    The RPer in me loves this idea, but the gamer hates it. I suppose which way you go depends on how this would be implemented. I mean, I like the idea of using your creativity to overcome stronger foes. That is awesome. But, the thing that stops me is that this is all based on a video game, and without some extreme luck and use of hax, there is NO WAY a Cleffa would be able to overcome a Garchomp. At the very least, there should be a large disadvantage placed against the Cleffa. My opinion is that while creativity should be the driving force, the established stats of Pokemon should be taken into account quite seriously as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by "HKim
    Additionally, we could make it so that being a higher level earns you more rewards than a lower level. So if a group of 5 people complete a mission (Three Lv. 1 and Two Lv. 2), the Lv. 2's would receive a slightly better prize than the Lv. 1's. I'm actually not sure about this idea yet, but I figured I could throw it out there and see if I'm completely crazy or somewhere on the money.
    This brings to mind the Oblivion Enemy-Scaling. For those who don't know what I'm talking about, Oblivion is a fairly-recent video game RPG set in medieval times (with magic, monsters, etc). It used an enemy level up system, where the random monsters you fought were scaled according to your level. This meant that a Skeleton would have (say) 200 health when you were level 3, and (say) 280 health when you were level 7. This sounds fine and fair in theory, but many players complained about the feel of it. And I can understand that. When you start, at level one, you fight off giant rats and skeletons. When you visit the starting dungeon 16 levels later, it is potentially just as hard, and that seems wrong. You've spent all this time theoretically getting stronger, but the enemies level up with you so statistically, you aren't really.

    Looking at this proposal, I'd say that, without further explanation on how they would work, best leave level-discerning rewards out. It seems unfair to me that, on a given Mission, if three people all rp exactly at the same level (assume), particular players earn more rewards simply because they've played more often.

    The big thing that will appeal to all of us is that we could create Missions that are designed for higher level roleplayers, aka, experienced roleplayers. These mission would be more challenging and perhaps require more dedication and creativity. A greater risk for greater reward. It's the same way how only members with a complete set of league badges can challenge the Elite 4. You earn your way to participate in these Advanced Missions.
    I like this. This is a much better version of above. Instead of having prizes depend on player level, have them depend on mission difficulty, and bar off the harder missions. Use levels to determine when rpers can attempt the harder ones. This way, you wouldn't have level 10 RPers getting insane amounts of loot from continually grinding quick, low-level quests. Your profit would increase only by attempting the harder missions: playing the first Mission would yield the same amount of loot at lv1 as it would at lv10 (assuming rp quality is the same).

    Just my two cents, I've been watching this potential addition very closely and I will continue to do so. I want to see how close it will/may be to some of the Pokemon rps I've run/participated in.
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  7. #37
    Head of the URPG HKim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokemon Missions: Advanced!

    Quote Originally Posted by AiedailEclipsed View Post
    Hmm. I would have actually thought that using lower level Pokemon would provide a greater reward.
    A rewards system will need to be worked out later. In terms of what I think might work best, I want to design it so that the reward is based off the overall quality of the role playing in the group, the level of the challenge, and if all the objectives were completed or not.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChainReaction01 View Post
    I mean, I like the idea of using your creativity to overcome stronger foes. That is awesome. But, the thing that stops me is that this is all based on a video game, and without some extreme luck and use of hax, there is NO WAY a Cleffa would be able to overcome a Garchomp. At the very least, there should be a large disadvantage placed against the Cleffa. My opinion is that while creativity should be the driving force, the established stats of Pokemon should be taken into account quite seriously as well.
    Certainly true. That example was probably far too extreme and I apologize. The roleplaying will generally follow the common sense model that we've seen in the anime and gameboy games unless there is a good, rp reason for it.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChainReaction01 View Post
    Instead of having prizes depend on player level, have them depend on mission difficulty, and bar off the harder missions. Use levels to determine when rpers can attempt the harder ones. This way, you wouldn't have level 10 RPers getting insane amounts of loot from continually grinding quick, low-level quests. Your profit would increase only by attempting the harder missions: playing the first Mission would yield the same amount of loot at lv1 as it would at lv10 (assuming rp quality is the same).
    Reading through your comments and thinking it over, I think this is the best model to follow. It might be unfair to reward players more than others just because of their level. Let the mission determine the reward.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChainReaction01 View Post
    Just my two cents, I've been watching this potential addition very closely and I will continue to do so. I want to see how close it will/may be to some of the Pokemon rps I've run/participated in.
    And I certainly appreciate the comments. The more we discuss this, the more we can improve it. Feedback never hurt anyone (probably).

    The rate of leveling is another matter of discussion. The random number I pulled out of my head is that you level every 5 missions, but that might be a little too high. We could go with three. An active member could probably finish 3 missions within a few months and advance. That might be the better number.

    I think one of the things we have going for this system is that the URPG already runs on an economy that relies on both income and expense. A created reward for effort and work that allow members to better enjoy their experience. The same system can be applied here. We can reward members for good roleplaying and pay dungeon master's for their work guiding the members through a mission. Add in the fun that roleplaying generally brings to the table, and we have the incentives for a good section.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Pokemon Missions: Advanced!

    I can't believe it took me so long to notice this...

    This sounds like an incredible amount of fun. I've always loved D&D style RPs, but it's hard to play when no one else wants too... In any case, this really appeals to me. The possibility of earning cash, items, and maybe even Pokemon through RPing is definitely something I can get into. I assume that Dungeon Master will be a new attainable position?

  9. #39
    Head of the URPG HKim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokemon Missions: Advanced!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryoku View Post
    I can't believe it took me so long to notice this...

    This sounds like an incredible amount of fun. I've always loved D&D style RPs, but it's hard to play when no one else wants too... In any case, this really appeals to me. The possibility of earning cash, items, and maybe even Pokemon through RPing is definitely something I can get into. I assume that Dungeon Master will be a new attainable position?

    I'm tempted to go about this in two ways, possibly using both methods.

    The first is the way we're all familiar with. You take a test to become a Dungeon Master (or whatever we name it) and if you pass, you can run adventures without oversight.

    The second method involves something closer to petitioning. An interested member or two can compile an adventure they want to run and petition the Dungeon Headmaster for the chance to run it. He can review the adventure, their general rp history and resume, and then decide whether or not he'll allow them to run the adventure.

    The second method has the advantage over the first of allowing newer members to jump in to running an adventure without necessarily becoming a rank-and-file positioned member. However, that adventure is likely to be more closely monitored and unlike a Dungeon Master, the rewards of the adventure will be determined by a higher ranked party. It's a give and take sort of thing.

    I want to make it so that it is rewarding to members to run adventures for others. They shouldn't be extremely long (except in certain particular cases) so as to keep the momentum moving forward. If a campaign is very extensive, the storyline plots can be divided into their own missions. If there are a lot of people interesting in running RP's, then there will also be greater participation in this section. After all, I think people generally enjoy it when someone moves the plot along, revealing the next step in a glorious adventure.

  10. #40
    Trainer Ordinaire evanfardreamer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokemon Missions: Advanced!

    Quote Originally Posted by HKim View Post
    I'm tempted to go about this in two ways, possibly using both methods.

    The first is the way we're all familiar with. You take a test to become a Dungeon Master (or whatever we name it) and if you pass, you can run adventures without oversight.

    The second method involves something closer to petitioning. An interested member or two can compile an adventure they want to run and petition the Dungeon Headmaster for the chance to run it. He can review the adventure, their general rp history and resume, and then decide whether or not he'll allow them to run the adventure.

    The second method has the advantage over the first of allowing newer members to jump in to running an adventure without necessarily becoming a rank-and-file positioned member. However, that adventure is likely to be more closely monitored and unlike a Dungeon Master, the rewards of the adventure will be determined by a higher ranked party. It's a give and take sort of thing.

    I want to make it so that it is rewarding to members to run adventures for others. They shouldn't be extremely long (except in certain particular cases) so as to keep the momentum moving forward. If a campaign is very extensive, the storyline plots can be divided into their own missions. If there are a lot of people interesting in running RP's, then there will also be greater participation in this section. After all, I think people generally enjoy it when someone moves the plot along, revealing the next step in a glorious adventure.
    I'd say go with the first method, but I don't necessarily think we should let them run without supervision. "Oh, hey, you come across four Pokeballs with Dragonites in them, congrats." While I don't think it's exactly likely, I'd still like to see a little more control kept on things - I'm not very familiar with the National Park or how they determine what events/Pokemon/items are in an area, so I don't know if there's an oversight board, or committee that determines that sort of thing.

    As to the newer members, while I'd be in favor of them having some freedom, I also think that there's a community aspect to this game that is critical to its success; the time needed for an investment of a 'salaried' position helps them integrate with the board(s) and gives us plenty of time to make sure they're a good fit for the position they are aiming for. It also helps solidify their interest in the game; I can't say I'd be as active as I am now (or as vocal) if I hadn't put forth the effort to become a Grader, and now feel like I have some input in the overall game.

    As to rewarding for the members, what about their wages being one-fourth the total value of gains that the party of adventurers get? This would be the cash value of items and buyable mons, or the average character length needed for a story in Pokedollars for non-mart mons. That way, their reward is on par with what they would have gotten if they were actually participating in the adventure.

    I would also say set a limit on the total value available based on level of the adventure; say, for first level, limit it to 30k worth of TM's and Pokemon that they can be rewarded with, with the specific rewards being left up to the DM. Second level could be 50k, 3rd could be 75k, etc. All numbers have been pulled from a specific darkened crevice and were based on an assumption of short-ish adventures; we could theoretically make it more scaling, with the total reward amount depending on the quantity of posts. Or say, perhaps, that every post in the thread gives you $1000 towards rewards, and once there's been 10 posts, the DM could find a way to reward a player with a Dratini, or something along those lines.

    (BTW, totally tossing my name in the hat for a DM position if we choose that model :D)
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    Default Re: Pokemon Missions: Advanced!

    Quote Originally Posted by HKim View Post
    I'm tempted to go about this in two ways, possibly using both methods.

    The first is the way we're all familiar with. You take a test to become a Dungeon Master (or whatever we name it) and if you pass, you can run adventures without oversight.

    The second method involves something closer to petitioning. An interested member or two can compile an adventure they want to run and petition the Dungeon Headmaster for the chance to run it. He can review the adventure, their general rp history and resume, and then decide whether or not he'll allow them to run the adventure.

    The second method has the advantage over the first of allowing newer members to jump in to running an adventure without necessarily becoming a rank-and-file positioned member. However, that adventure is likely to be more closely monitored and unlike a Dungeon Master, the rewards of the adventure will be determined by a higher ranked party. It's a give and take sort of thing.

    I want to make it so that it is rewarding to members to run adventures for others. They shouldn't be extremely long (except in certain particular cases) so as to keep the momentum moving forward. If a campaign is very extensive, the storyline plots can be divided into their own missions. If there are a lot of people interesting in running RP's, then there will also be greater participation in this section. After all, I think people generally enjoy it when someone moves the plot along, revealing the next step in a glorious adventure.
    i like both of the ideas and i would suggest using both of them however the second one has a few risk. i could see many abusing the 'power' that they have, by obtaining high rewards that a dungon master would not give them and not being monitored as often as needed. also there is the incative problem. if a dungon master is invative or unable to take contuie the mission, another Dungon master could be requested to take over. However if its somone running there own mission, it would be harder for smone to know what was going on to take over the role.

    if anyone understand what i am saying, please feel free to right it in a way that others can as well.
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  12. #42
    Angry about Outer Heavens ChainReaction01's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokemon Missions: Advanced!

    Regarding the ability to attain "Dungeon Master" status:

    Personally, I much prefer HKim's second method over his first (a petitioning review system over a simple signup). For example, the road to Referee is (if I remember) a quiz and then a test, both of which the answers can be figured out/calculated, and there is a clear wrong/right. And this is fine, because battling is a numbers and strategy game. The road to Ranger (National Park), however, is a quiz and then an rp sample. The rp sample's quality is discussed by a board of high-ranking Rangers, and they decide as a group whether or not to instate the applicant as a Ranger.

    I think the second option is much more suited to Dungeon Master applicants, because there are so many more variables when it comes to rping.

    In battles, moves have set damage and accuracy, and they happen or not according to dice rolls and will do the exact same amount of damage every time. In the Park (and theoretically, this too) the quality of the posts should determine the effect of Pokemon attacks.

    I mean, I like to think that a low quality Surf will usually beat a high quality Water Gun, but that's just because I enjoy the maths behind Pokemon. Regardless, the DM will have to decide on the effect attacks have, and that's something that there is no correct answer for. There are many different ways it could be done.

    That's why I feel there should be some kind of review stage: there is no simple, clean-cut way of damage calculation that can be applied like in battles. The outcomes need to be fairly determined by the DM (like the Rangers in the National Park) and each person's definition of "fair" is different, thus necessitating this review stage.

    Regarding Sennyo's worries of corruption, yes, this is possible. However, the URPG doesn't seem to have any higher-up power struggles that I can see, and in the one problem case I've seen since joining (names not being used) the problem was swiftly dealt with by the higher-ups and there have been no problems since. The URPG is built on a foundation of trust, and I believe that any DMs that pass a review stage wouldn't skew the campaign in their favour.

    However, the other worry, about inactivity: yes, this is a problem. There is a solution to it, I just haven't thought of one. It's definitely something to think about, but at a later stage.

    Just quickly, regarding campaign creation, I'd keep a fairly tight lid on this until the section itself is running smoothly. Have the higher-ups create three or four campaigns (two/three Beginner ones, and a Medium or so one) and just run them for a while, balancing issues and cleaning up until it runs smoothly. Then, you could create a Campaign Review Council, and these people take Campaign Submissions and review/tweak them until they work fairly.

    I like the idea of basic, ordinary members being able to apply to run a campaign, but in reality, I have reservations about whether this would work. They'd need to be watched closely, and the CRC would probably get an insane amount of campaign applications. Once campaign applications become allowed, imo potential campaign designers have to pass the review stage first. Also, having just ordinary members run campaigns could make wages really, really painful.

    I'm not going to launch into a discussion of wages and rewards, however, just quickly, I don't think the DM wages should correspond to the rewards of the players. This could encourage the DM the make life easier and more rewarding for the players so that the DM themself end up with mawr cashz. I reckon some kind of post payment system like the Rangers use (roughly $500 per post) would be the best way to do things. In any case, wages should be one of the last things to be worked out.

    *looks up* Wow, I talk too much.

    (btw would be interested in helping out and/or being a DM :D)
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  13. #43
    Head of the URPG HKim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokemon Missions: Advanced!

    Sorry for the late response everyone, was away at vacation!

    And I'm glad there are people interested in being DM's, I'll definitely start up a list to keep track of invested parties.

    Anyway, I'll assemble some of the ideas discussed in the near future, but let's talk about the campaigns, that seems like a topic we'd probably all like to input on.

    Like before, we can work it in quite a few different ways.

    Wizards of the Coast, the publishers of Dungeons & Dragons, offer to the players a variety of pre-written adventures for the Dungeon Master to run. Certainly the players will vary from the written course, but generally the story is the same each time it is run. After all, there is only so much the DM can change before it becomes and entirely new tale.

    In the same way, many computer games follow this course. Sometimes there are choices, but often the player follows and single storyline that has been written beforehand. Her friend, who also owns the game, plays through the same story no matter what. Regardless of how many people or how many times the person plays through the game, the story remains the same.

    We could create, at least at first, 4 or 5 story lines for the Dungeon Masters to run their players through. Looking at our talent base here, it would be no challenge to put together an adventure for our eager roleplayers. Anyone can run through the adventure and the DM simply has to look at the written plot to figure out what each step is. If you play World of Warcraft, you could compare it to an Instance. Everyone plays the same scenario and it's easy to implement. That is the first method.

    The second method is one that I think would allow for more creativity. Why create a set of adventures that DM's run over and over again? Why not simply allow members to create THEIR OWN adventures for other members? I think this is the true gem of roleplaying though certainly trickier to put into play.

    Think of it this way. When we write a story or create a character, the idea is our own. We may take elements from other stories, but the unique combination of elements makes it something different entirely. In the same way, when you create an RP on the board, it's a new idea, one worthy of pursuing. That could be the same here.

    A DM could submit an adventure idea to the URPG leadership for approval. If approved, the DM can gather a group of members together to run them through his story, one that is unique and never played through before. The players won't know what's coming, only that this adventure is one that only they shall participate in and no on else. A unique and special experience.

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    Default Re: Pokemon Missions: Advanced!

    Quote Originally Posted by HKim View Post
    Sorry for the late response everyone, was away at vacation!

    And I'm glad there are people interested in being DM's, I'll definitely start up a list to keep track of invested parties.

    Anyway, I'll assemble some of the ideas discussed in the near future, but let's talk about the campaigns, that seems like a topic we'd probably all like to input on.

    Like before, we can work it in quite a few different ways.

    Wizards of the Coast, the publishers of Dungeons & Dragons, offer to the players a variety of pre-written adventures for the Dungeon Master to run. Certainly the players will vary from the written course, but generally the story is the same each time it is run. After all, there is only so much the DM can change before it becomes and entirely new tale.

    In the same way, many computer games follow this course. Sometimes there are choices, but often the player follows and single storyline that has been written beforehand. Her friend, who also owns the game, plays through the same story no matter what. Regardless of how many people or how many times the person plays through the game, the story remains the same.

    We could create, at least at first, 4 or 5 story lines for the Dungeon Masters to run their players through. Looking at our talent base here, it would be no challenge to put together an adventure for our eager roleplayers. Anyone can run through the adventure and the DM simply has to look at the written plot to figure out what each step is. If you play World of Warcraft, you could compare it to an Instance. Everyone plays the same scenario and it's easy to implement. That is the first method.

    The second method is one that I think would allow for more creativity. Why create a set of adventures that DM's run over and over again? Why not simply allow members to create THEIR OWN adventures for other members? I think this is the true gem of roleplaying though certainly trickier to put into play.

    Think of it this way. When we write a story or create a character, the idea is our own. We may take elements from other stories, but the unique combination of elements makes it something different entirely. In the same way, when you create an RP on the board, it's a new idea, one worthy of pursuing. That could be the same here.

    A DM could submit an adventure idea to the URPG leadership for approval. If approved, the DM can gather a group of members together to run them through his story, one that is unique and never played through before. The players won't know what's coming, only that this adventure is one that only they shall participate in and no on else. A unique and special experience.
    I love this idea. It allows for both freedom of creativity and control over the results; the only caveat I would put on it is to have it set that a DM can't run an adventure they create until they've run at least 2 of the pre-published arcs.

    A possible issue with this would be if there were a limited pool of folks interested in running the missions; assuming that people can't replay adventures they've already run, if we only have 20 people to play in them, there's a finite number of times that people can run those adventures. I don't think it'll be a problem, however, as they only need to run 2 of the 5 before they can do their own; and each person theoretically could be in all 5 different adventures.

    Just a thought to make sure the people who want to run custom adventures have the quality we want them to have before we give them the reins. Though I imagine they should still be free to contribute stuff for custom adventures.
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  15. #45
    Team Rocket recruit Zeferin's Avatar
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    Apr 2010
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    Default Re: Pokemon Missions: Advanced!

    Quote Originally Posted by HKim View Post
    I'm tempted to...a glorious adventure.
    ^yeah, I really didn't want to waste forum space.


    Well, in my own opinion, I would say that I prefer the first method of having a DM (the Name Pending thing) and have them available only through a test of some kind.

    As I have seen it since joining URPG, a well tested, qualified person rules things much more smoother than an average Joe. Examples: I turn to the old Ultra Worlds RP section and also the Battle section of the site.

    Ultra Worlds RP is, in my own bias opinion, an awesome and great idea for this site. The only problem was 1) Not enough people at the beginning and 2) anyone could run their own RP. The first one is a non sequitur in this post, so moving on to the second reason, I believe that because we could let anyone run an RP, some people (including myself) jumped into the water before learning how to swim. Trilroy, on the other hand, has ran a very decent RP and was the closest thing to a certified DM that Ultra Worlds had. Now with the addition of the Trainer's Estate, you can see where hard working, well knowledge RPers make the difference between success and failure.

    Now, moving one to the Battle section, this section show how a well ran, well organized, and a staff of well tested Refs make the difference once again. I know, first hand, that becoming a ref isn't all laughs and giggles: you must know what you're doing and you have to work for it. With the ref quiz and ref test, the way of testing for an official in an area weeds out those that aren't serious about become one.

    Now, not to say that other areas of the site aren't important or relevant to my argument, I just don't want to eat up any more cyberspace than I need to.

    As I finish, I just have to stress how important it is to have people who know what they're doing. It has worked for refs, it has worked for graders, and it has worked for judges. Why wouldn't it work for DMs too?

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