Heights Discussion
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Thread: Heights Discussion

  1. #1
    Angry about Outer Heavens ChainReaction01's Avatar
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    Default Heights Discussion

    So I thought this might as well be moved over as well because it's a few different (but important) points that group neatly under the title "Heights" or "Ascension" or "Vertical Movement". Anyway, the three points are: jump/fall height, height advantages, and Flying Pokemon. So, in that order:

    Currently, the jump/fall height is 2 for both jumping and falling. Seeing as I'm an advocate of somewhat-realism, I think that this needs to be addressed. For example, there is no way that a Wurmple can jump as high as a Rapidash. So I think that each Pokemon should get their own Jump stat in addition to a Range and Size stat. I would be happy to go through and assign probationary ones like I have for the movepool. Generally speaking, however, the jump height would be 2, and this would change slightly, for example a jump stat of 1 for Sunkern and a jump stat of 5 for Hitmonlee. Incidentally, any given Pokemon's fall height would be one greater than their jump height. If they're pushed off and fall more than is safe, damage will be dealt to them. But anyway, the whole point of introducing a height mechanic is tactical value, and what is the point of tactical value?

    Well, the best idea for HOLDING THE HIGH GROUND (Star Wars reference LOL) I have heard is from Magikchicken (told you I wouldn't claim credit :P). His idea was the following:

    If an Adjacent attack is used on a Pokemon on a lower plane than you, an Attack (and Special Attack, I guess) multiplier is added (say, an extra 5-10%).

    If the Pokemon on the higher ground is using a ranged attack, the range increases according to how many planes above the target's plane the user is.

    I really like this idea, especially the ranged attack part. This means that if, say, a Metagross is using Psychic and the potential target is one plane lower than him, Psychic's range would be 5 squares instead of 4. This very neatly emphasizes the strategic value of bringing long range Pokemon into battle and fighting for control of the highest point on the map, because then the holders of the hill could rain death down onto the larger portion of the map. But again, I would be interested in ideas and opinions regarding this.

    Lastly, I wish to address an excellent point made by kanga. He brought up the fact that Flying-type Pokemon would be flying, i.e. they wouldn't be on the ground, they'd be above it. Well, here are my two ideas regarding this:

    Similar to FFTA2, flying units sit on the ground unless they are moving. This is the simplest option and perhaps the best, but then there is no extra strategy (this isn't necessarily a bad thing, keep in mind). However, this isn't realistic, and my driving aim is to get this thing as close to Pokemon-realism as possible, which brings me to my second option.

    Flying type Pokemon have an extra phase in addition to Move, Action, and End. They have a fourth called Toggle Flying. Basically, what this means is once a turn if a Pokemon is flying then it can land, and if it is land-bound it can take off into the skies. Incidentally, a flying Pokemon would be hovering one plane above its location tile. This would be a minor addition and preserve the realism. However, this also makes them somewhat overpowered, as if the above height bonuses are put into play then all non-flying Pokemon are at a major disadvantage. So here are the three sub-options, all of which I like equally:

    * When a Flying Pokemon attacks, their attacks are treated as if they are not flying.

    * To combat Flying Pokemon never landing, Flying Pokemon are given a slight Defense / Special Defense buff when not flying (say, 5-10%).

    * Every Flying Pokemon has another stat, let's call it Stamina. The number on their Stamina stat is the number of turns they can fly. Once their Stamina runs out, they have to move around like normal Pokemon until it recharges. They cannot take flight until it has fully recharged. It recharges at a rate of one Stamina per turn. However, if a flying Pokemon lands before their Stamina is completely drained, then they can take off without it being fully recharged, and it still recharges at a rate of one Stamina per turn.

    So there it is. Please discuss at length.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Heights Discussion

    Just to save you a little trouble, Jump is one of the Pokeathelon stats (rated between 1 and 5 conveniently enough) that you could use as a starting point, I think that Stamina is also one of the stats which could serve for flying types.

    As for the point about Flying types, I like the idea of their attacks effectively coming from ground level, as this is particularly appropriate for physical attacks. Might be an idea to give the option for having Special Attacks benefit from the height bonus at the expense of accuracy (choice is the user's at the each attack, so they can switch) - if this option is used the accuracy modifier will also be applied to never miss moves (like Magical Leaf), as it represents the user mis-targetting as they fly (other accuracy modifiers will not apply to the never miss moves)
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  3. #3
    URPG! GliscorMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heights Discussion

    I like Stubb's idea of using Pokethalon stats as base for Stamina, Jump, etc. It may be easier to do as you said about Flying Pokemon, but most Pokemon like Altaria tend not to land. Ever. Maybe they choose whether they are flying or not?

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  4. #4

    Default Re: Heights Discussion

    i like what is wriiten here but i have a point about flying. you wrote and i quote
    that Flying-type Pokemon would be flying, i.e. they wouldn't be on the ground, they'd be above it.
    this wouldnt be exeactly true for some pokemon like Chrizard, dodou, slamance,tropicus,etc. they would most likey fly short distance but would most likey land and attack on the ground. a good exaple is how most movie show a dragon under attack. the creature usally flies and drive, as well as breathing fire but it would land to give the heroes a fighting change. Also the pokemon anime and a few manga almost always show the larger and more powerful flying type fighting on the ground, while the smaller pokemon, like spearow and those ofter based on a bird, contsantly in the air when they fight.
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    Angry about Outer Heavens ChainReaction01's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heights Discussion

    Yes, I like the idea of using the Pokethlon stats, that would work.

    Regarding Sennyo and Gliscorman's points, that why one of the Flying Pokemon ideas is the Toggle Flight phase I described, which allows them to be either flying or on the ground as their Trainer / the DM dictates.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Heights Discussion

    i have thought of another idea ( that mainly come from the idea of warhammer and one of the idea above) which is that flying type have a "hit and Run" abblity so a flying type could charge in, attack, wait unitl there fighting oppents retailate and straight after move out of the combat again. also you could give flying types the abblity of a second move after every thig else is complet yet before the next turn starts ( that is if this system is based on a turn system)
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    Angry about Outer Heavens ChainReaction01's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heights Discussion

    Just because it belongs in here, the Jump stat is no longer being implemented. Furthermore, I think that for simplicity's and fairness' sake Flying (and Levitating) Pokemon can just sit on their grids and act like normal Pokemon.

    Any problems with this?
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    URPG! GliscorMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heights Discussion

    I want mah Gliscor ta be immune ta Ground!!!!1 Grumble... I guess it could work.

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  9. #9
    Angry about Outer Heavens ChainReaction01's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heights Discussion

    Oh, Flying type Pokemon will still have their Ground immunities.
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    The Hero You Never Needed Neonsands's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heights Discussion

    Perhaps if a Flying type is in their toggled flight mode, they could take an extra percentage of damage from super effective moves: i.e. Electric, Ice, and Rock. Just an option to think of.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Heights Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Neonsands View Post
    Perhaps if a Flying type is in their toggled flight mode, they could take an extra percentage of damage from super effective moves: i.e. Electric, Ice, and Rock. Just an option to think of.
    Good idea, but seeing as the Jump stat isn't going to be implemented, giving some Pokemon the ability to move upwards without ramps would probably be a game-killer.
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  12. #12
    URPG! GliscorMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heights Discussion

    I was thinking that they could take extra damage from all attacks directed towards them if they were Flying.

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  13. #13

    Default Re: Heights Discussion

    I think Perhaps just let them be normal pokemon as suggested as option 1

    option 2 is that the only time a flying type has its immunities to ground when in flying mode but whilst on the ground the super effectives such as electric those that are X4 are halfed to X2 on the ground and those at X2 are halved to X1 normal effectiveness whilst on ground but whilst in air everything is as normal. On ground you are vunurable to Ground attacks.

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