Thread: Encounters

Okay, as everyone knows a good roleplaying campaign is made up of many factors. The overreaching storyline, the choices, divided paths, etc. But one of the most enjoyable parts is the encounters (or battles, skirmishes, fights, whatever you want to call them). As Pokemon is largely a battle-based game the way Encounters play is a very important subject, and I've been brainstorming ideas. I will now present (a part) of my favourite one. I think that the encounter system we should use should be a little bit more strict that the somewhat loose system that is implemented in the National Park.

The system that I propose we use (with edits, additions, etc) is kind of a fusion between the system seen in some tabletop RPGs and some tactics-based video games. The Encounter field would be a grid of squares that can be arranged in any particular sequence. For example, a basic grid would look somewhat like this (except probably much larger):



Whether it's tilted or not is a minor point, it's just easier in my experience. Anyway, random squares can be removed or added to vary up the environment and change the way the fights happen, like so:



You can also raise or lower tiles to create slopes and raised squares. How this affects gameplay I'm not sure yet, but it could be something as easy as Pokemon on the higher ground get a slight attack multiplier or something. Anyway, a grid with slopes might look something like this:



There could also be multilayer battlefields, like say underground tunnels that Digging Pokemon could access, or up in the sky where Pokemon could use Fly, Bounce, etc to dogfight. But I'll expand on that later - the ideas I want to share in this post are going to make it big enough.

Let's say the encounter is taking place on the most recent grid. A Pokemon (or a Trainer) would move around on the grid, repositioning themselves to try and gain a tactical advantage over their opponents. My next point is this movement. We can either allow diagonal travel or disallow it. For example, if a Pokemon had the ability to move two squares, then the left example is with diagonal travel, and the right example is without. Red squares are the squares the Ralts could move to.



Again, this is largely a minor choice. Experience tells me that disallowing diagonals would be a better choice, but that's open for discussion.

Now as for attacks, each attack could have its own length/range/whatever, and I'll be talking about how moves and stats affect encounters later on. For now, you can imagine how attacks work. Depending on whether or not we allow diagonals, the attack aiming system could be very different. But here are a few examples assuming we don't allow diagonals (and the actual specifics can be hammered out later):

Thunderbolt (Attack in a line, hit everyone)


Hypnosis (Attack a single square nearby)


Thunder Wave (Area of effect attack, green squares are range of centre of attack)


Psychic (Attack a single square at range)


There may be other possibilities, I'm working on a comprehensive list of moves and their effects. Anyway, there are other things related to this grid that I want to talk about (like an action order, deciding who moves at what time, etc) but there's just one last choice that I want to lay out on the table for now. In these campaigns, I think there has been an underlying assumption that Trainers will be able to bring in more than one Pokemon. If they can't, then this doesn't need to be discussed. If they can, then I would suggest each Trainer is only allowed one Pokemon on the field at a time, and here are the two ways we could implement Trainer involvement:

The Trainer is also a character on the grid like the Pokemon, able to move around and distribute healing items to the Pokemon. The Trainer wouldn't be able to fight, however, so this adds tactical complexity in form of bringing the Trainers with the Pokemon (allowing for healing but open to risk) or having them stay back (battle won't fail because a Trainer has been too badly wounded but Pokemon may faint). Using items would work like a Pokemon attacking, most likely a single square nearby (items cannot be thrown at Pokemon).

The other option is we implement a home base kind of area to where Pokemon can retreat to receive healing or to be swapped in-out. For example, on our grid:



So Pokemon could only be swapped or healed in the area. At the start of the battle, Pokemon could be placed anywhere in the home area, allowing for strategic planning (for example a Gardevoir carrying Wish and Heal Bell could stay backwards somewhat, acting as a support, while the Infernape can get in close and dirty and a Jolteon could fire Thunderbolts from afar).

Anyway, that's probably enough for one post. I'll talk later on about my ideas regarding how the battle itself actually works, and later on a part-by-part move list, explaining how some moves may be radically different under this system as opposed to normal battling (for example Teleport could move the Pokemon instead of attacking). I'll also talk about the mechanics and advantages of moving (for example, if we implement a facing direction, striking from behind has increased critical ratio).

If you've managed to get through this massive post, I salute you xD. Please discuss, point out errors, add improvements, etc. I'll edit them in / make new posts as we go. Try not to move too far ahead, let's hammer this out part by part. Jumping forwards past the bare roots is how projects like this fail.

Anyway, thanks again. Discuss! :D

That is seriously epic. Great job on it. My only concern is having multilayer floors layed out. IMO it looks cluttered and kind of complicated. I think just going through the dungeon one floor at a time would be easier to follow and understand (well for me and inexperienced members). I really like the PMD style you made the areas though :D

Thanks, hopefully my encounter ideas will be fleshed out a bit in the following posts. Regarding your worries about multilayer encounters, if you're talking about the part where I mentioned underground and skyward sections, then I agree with you. I would strongly advise that those extra grids be left to Moderate / Advanced campaigns, I just thought I'd mention the possiblity now. However, if you're talking about the slopes and higher squares on the shown grid I reckon they should be left there for the tactical value, but perhaps limited in the Beginner campaigns.

Anyway, I've gotten really enthusiastic about this, so I'm going to do a short post now instead of waiting. First I'll talk about Pokemon and their stats and how stats will affect the battle. Then once that is done I'll talk about posibilities regarding Pokemon movement.

I believe that, for most cases, Pokemon stats will do roughly the same things that they do normal URPG battles, i.e. Sp.Atk and Sp.Def used for special attacks, ATK and DEF for physical attacks, and HP for raw health/stamina. However, Speed will likely be somewhat different. This brings up the question of how turn orders will work.

For those of you who have never played a tactics game, the turn order is the particular order in which each of your units move. There are four ways I can see this being implemented:

Pokemon turn frequency is based solely on Speed stat, or using the Speed stat in some way. No other considerations are taken. This means that fast Pokemon (say, a Golbat) could move four times before a slow Pokemon (say, a Shuckle) could move once.

In a "round", every individual Pokemon is guaranteed a turn before the round ends. The order of the round depends entirely on the Speed stat, or using the Speed stat in some way. This means that the faster Pokemon will still move before the slower Pokemon, but every Pokemon will still get the same amount of turns.

In a "round", every individual Pokemon gets a turn, but inside the round itself the Pokemon that gets to move alternates teams. So, a Pokemon from the Trainers will move, and then an enemy Pokemon, and then a Team Pokemon, etc etc etc. This means that no one team will get shut out by extremely fast Pokemon.

In a "round", each team moves all their Pokemon in any order they want, completely ignoring Speed stats, taking turns to do so. Once all the Pokemon have had one turn, the round then swaps to the other team, who then moves all their Pokemon in any order.

The last option is the simplest, and it works to great effect in a couple games I have played, but it has some flaws, such as potentially allowing overpowered teams to shut out the opponents before they even get a move. My personal favourite is the third option. As for deciding which Pokemon can move, it can either be according to the Speed stat or Trainer choice, whichever.

Anyway, back to the stat discussion. The last Stat (apart from Evasion, Accuracy, etc which will also work mostly the same way) is Speed, and depending on which turn order we use it may be used there. But I also think that Speed should be used to determine the number of squares a Pokemon can move. I've been working on a formula (that is imperfect as of yet, I'll post it when it's hammered out more) that uses the Speed stat to determine this. Quick side-note: I think that moves that increase Speed should NOT increase the number of squares a Pokemon can move, or if they do then very little. The main advantage of raising a Speed stat should involve the turn order.

This brings us to movement. This part is small, just an addition to the last post. Some larger Pokemon (Onix, Wailord, etc) should take up more than a single square, a 2x2 or 3x3 grid for example. This means that they may not be able to walk along the thinner passages that can be seen in the example grid above. Lastly, I believe for realism purposes that fish Pokemon (Goldeen, Sharpedo, etc) should be confined to water tiles. I don't think I've mentioned them before, but it's rather simple. Some tiles on a grid could be designated as a different type as seen in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, such as Water tiles, Lava tiles, etc. Only certain Pokemon can move on these tiles.

Next post I'll probably talk about the way encounters themselves work, diving deeper into the turn order mechanism and how Pokemon would actually fight in the encounters.

Discuss, criticise, brainstorm, applaud, do those things that committees usually do xD

now my main problem with that would be, if we made the maps randomly or had set scenes for each mission then say if the mission was a beginner mission and so this map is actually quite small only a bit bigger then your exaple if not the same size. What would happen is if that map had say a higher section every so often but didnt leave enough room for say a 3x3 pokemon like a Agron was used the pokemon would not be able to move seeing as their would be no opening for it to get through as the whole pokemons body would have to stay on the same level i assume. But that can be fixed quite easily.
Can i just suggest that perhaps you take into idea the shapes of pokemon, for example and Onix/steelix these two pokemon are quite long and so instead of taking up a 2x2 or 3x3 area they could take up a 3x1 or 2x1 area, with you being able to curve that length only once for exmple the onix could be turning around a corner. to make a right angle length.

Onother idea that could be implementing could be would attacks hurt more if the pokemon is attack from the sides or behind, and attacks hurt less if the attack was taken head on? And have ranged attacks such as psycic just work like a normal attack? Btw got this question from final fantasy tactics advanced 2.

another question i put towards you is about the water/lava tiles. if say a goldeen was on a water tile how would it get from one to another if they were not conected as if their area is small then you could have the problem of the water pokemon not being able to reach its opponent to use moves, whilst its opponent would stay far enough away to avoid attacks but be able to hit with long range attacks, use your example again psycic. Another thing about tiles is that say it was a water tile a non water pokemon would non be able to go accross it perhaps maybe grass mons? what if a map had a river running straight through the middle with no gaps you could not travel to the otherside? I suggest for this question that in a mart we have an item could Bridge this item could be used by both land and water pokemon to cross gaps, for land pokemon accross water and for water pokemon accross land.limits would have to be used though as the bridge should only be able to go in a straight line not in diagonals. these water and lava tyles would be able to be used by flying types wont they as they can fly over? One more thing sorry, in your examples you show hightened section of the maps and suggest they get a slight increase on attack when attacking from that position. What about flying pokemon? they would be above those positions and would therefore by logic and fairness also get this advantage? or not? Would their be a disadvantage on pokemon on land atttacking upwards at flying pokemon?

Another item about altitude and tiles.What about pokemon who can levitate? even those without the ability levitate some who can do it just cause they can. would they reside in the same level as flying types or ground? can they pass over water and lava?

I like you idea I really do and i think its almost perfect but could use a bit of help. with all these questons i think i have maybe annoyed you and discoredged you but I dont mean to i just unavoidable seem to say things and question even if i do it ina realy poor way grammaticly and writing terms i mean. I think what you have come up with is great and i wouldnt be able to do this and so i say keep it up and more to come soon

Firstly, I would like to say that post was in no way discouraging or annoying. They are all good points that need to be thought of and pointed out.

Regarding the shapes and sizes of Pokemon, yes the above grid was just an example, and it wouldn't be perfect for an Aggron. That grid would probably be the smallest one possible. But then again, that says something about researching your campaigns in advance and not bringing large Pokemon if they're not suitable for the encounters. A usual grid will be fine for large Pokemon maneuvering, with perhaps maybe one section or shortcut large Pokemon can't access. These probably won't feature in Beginner missions. However, the turning thing could get real messy. In most grid-based games units are perfect squares because problems can develop when it comes to facing directions and movement with oblong movements. Besides, we still haven't decided whether or not to include facing directions.

While we're on facing directions, yes another possibility is increased damage as opposed to increased critical hit ratio. Both of those are just some of the options, but again this depends on whether or not we implement a facing mechanic. And btw, FFTA2 is an awesome game xD

Regarding the water/lava tiles, yes it may be tricky for a Goldeen to move around, but I'm pretty sure that Goldeen learns Bounce, so that could be implemented as a temporary land movement or something. The real question here is realism vs usability. Can we live with a fish flying around ala Pokemon Stadium so it can be used wherever, or on the other side of the coin is it worth the realism to nerf a significant portion of Water types? Personally, I say fish-types should be limited to water tiles with exceptions, but perhaps that could be a discussion topic. I like the idea of buying land passage items, perhaps that could work well with the game model of Trainers moving around like Pokemon. The Trainer's job is to heal the Pokemon and make sure it gets where it needs to go and the Pokemon does the fighting.

Regarding flying Pokemon and levitating Pokemon, they could move over water and lava tiles. As for attacking and positioning, I hadn't thought of that. I guess you could say that they are always hovering one or two squares above the tile they're currently on. But don't worry about this for now, we haven't yet discussed the possiblity of high giving combat bonuses.

Thanks for a wonderful post, keep pointing out flaws and adding new ideas!

Originally Posted by ChainReaction01

Thanks, hopefully my encounter ideas will be fleshed out a bit in the following posts. Regarding your worries about multilayer encounters, if you're talking about the part where I mentioned underground and skyward sections, then I agree with you. I would strongly advise that those extra grids be left to Moderate / Advanced campaigns, I just thought I'd mention the possiblity now. However, if you're talking about the slopes and higher squares on the shown grid I reckon they should be left there for the tactical value, but perhaps limited in the Beginner campaigns.

No, I meant the fact that you were hinting at Pokemon going up for Fly and down for Dig. Personally I don't think that will work out or, as you said, leave it for higher ranks. I love the slopes idea though.

Anyway, I've gotten really enthusiastic about this, so I'm going to do a short post now instead of waiting. First I'll talk about Pokemon and their stats and how stats will affect the battle. Then once that is done I'll talk about posibilities regarding Pokemon movement.

I believe that, for most cases, Pokemon stats will do roughly the same things that they do normal URPG battles, i.e. Sp.Atk and Sp.Def used for special attacks, ATK and DEF for physical attacks, and HP for raw health/stamina. However, Speed will likely be somewhat different. This brings up the question of how turn orders will work.

Raw HP might prove to be kind of awkward as some people can't change the % to HP in the calc (blue button I think). I think if we do speed the way PMD or most other MMORPG's i.e everyone moves one tile every turn and Speed really doesn't come into effect unless moves like Agility are used (2 tiles per turn, can only attack once) or for turn order (fastes goes first).

This brings us to movement. This part is small, just an addition to the last post. Some larger Pokemon (Onix, Wailord, etc) should take up more than a single square, a 2x2 or 3x3 grid for example. This means that they may not be able to walk along the thinner passages that can be seen in the example grid above. Lastly, I believe for realism purposes that fish Pokemon (Goldeen, Sharpedo, etc) should be confined to water tiles. I don't think I've mentioned them before, but it's rather simple. Some tiles on a grid could be designated as a different type as seen in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, such as Water tiles, Lava tiles, etc. Only certain Pokemon can move on these tiles.

Hmm I agree that larger Pokemon should take up a larger tile range but I don't think that they should be restricted because of it. Not being able to squeeze through a gap could prove fatal in some situations. Regardless, it could work if there are two exits to every "room", a one tile one and a larger one. This means that you are less likely to be able to get out of tight situations (pun not intended) if you only have access to a certain exit rather than several.

With regards to water Pokemon being restricted to only water tiles I think that that is a little too restricting unless you can gaurantee that exits will always be next to a water tile (and a fire tile or sky tile if you want to be THAT strict about it :P). Perhaps having a flying, water or fire type should be seen as a benefit rather than a hindrance. So Fire mons can go on lava, water on water, flying on holes in the ground. xD

Well, I'm just gonna come in and give my two cents about this.

What you have presented is a good idea, and I like the general aura of it, and the sense of what it is about, however I would think if you were going to do something like this, you would want a much bigger area for the Pokemon to roam in and so on, to fully account for all Pokemon sizes.

Now, Pokemon like Onix should be about 3 squares or so long, but only 1 or 2 wide, as they aren't massive in width, whilst a Pokemon like Snorlax would be 1 long, and about 2 or 3 wide. Overall, I think the idea you came up with is a really good one, and I would like to see how this develops.

This is a very nice set up. However, I believe that it would have to be larger or Wailord would take up the entire field (assuming a trainer as base length/height). I have one problem with Psychic; it should have a certain limit in length and be sight-based. Water/lava tiles are cool. Flying types should probably be able to travel over them without difficulty, so maybe attacks that go through the air would do more to them (example Twister hitting a Staraptor which was flying over head)? And what are we going to do about immunities? For example, what if a Gliscor was hit by one of those Thunderbolts while in mid-air? Would it ignore the attack or get hit? With the hills, should that be one of the best places to attack flying type Pokemon? Trainers are a good idea. The classic Cleric class of party member. But would you have to buy items at a Pokemart to heal them? Other than that, I think that this will be a beneficial system.

A couple recurring themes:

The grid I made is an example of a very very small encounter. It is by no means the default grid, just an example to show how movements and some attacks would work. The average grid would be at least two-three times the size of the example.

By "raw HP" I simply meant health. No need to convert it into individual Health Points or anything. The battles (or move usages or whatever) would pretty much follow standard URPG calcing unless we implement a height advantage or facing mechanic.

Also, if Pokemon can only move one tile per turn, these Encounters are going to take ages, and not to mention depending on what kind of turn order mechanic we choose then there might not even be a benefit to having a high Speed stats whatsoever. But, it is another possibility that I hadn't thought of, so good stuff xD

Regarding the Water Pokemon thing, I'm not limiting all Water types. Not ones that can feasibly walk around on land like Piplup, Octillery and Kingler. I'm talking about ones that physically would not be able to move around on land short of flopping, like Lumineon and Magikarp. But again, that does nerf them somewhat I admit, so reality and the laws of physics may need to take a backseat here.

Lastly, regarding Pokemon sizes, if there's one thing we should definitely stay away from it is non-cubic Pokemon grid sizes. Seriously, it will end badly. The Snorlax would fit comfortably on a 2x2 grid, and likewise an Onix would as well if it curls its tail around itself, like in the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon sprite (I believe, it's been aaaaaages since I played that game).

Gliscorman, good point about immunities. I think we should follow the National Park immunity system (for example, using a Steel type move on the ground grants temporary immunity to electricity is one of their rules). Under these rules, I'm not sure but I think Gliscor would indeed lose its immunity to electricity while flying, but I'm not sure. Perhaps you can choose whether or not Flying types are actually flying above their grid or seated on it.

Great discussion, guys. Keep it coming!

The steel on the ground has always been a little iffy, but I think that Gliscor's immunity would only take effect if it was touching the ground. A Pokemon's speed should only affect what turn it takes. Example: Gliscor would take action before Shuckle.

This was really interesting to read. I like the idea alot, ill come back and comment again if i think of anything to critic. :P

Just quickly regarding the Speed, if the only thing Speed affects is the turn order, then every Pokemon would be able to move the same amount of squares at the same rate, and it seems a little silly to me that a Caterpie can move just as fast as a Rapidash. But, it is one of the options, and it worked fine in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. The key difference is PMD plays very differently to how this will.

Anyway, because there's been some confusion with the grid size, I quickly whipped up an example that might be more typical (perhaps for a Medium encounter as opposed to a Beginner one):



As you can see, the bigger areas and the empty gaps in addition to the raised tiles and slopes add tactical value to an encounter. For example, the very top of the larger hill is a 1x1 grid, so you wouldn't be able to put a large 2x2 Pokemon (say, a Magnezone (just an example, Magnezone won't necessarily be a 2x2)) wouldn't be able to camp the top and attack from range. Furthermore, Pokemon that don't rely on melee attacks can use the impassable sections to attack without endangering themselves. But that's just an example grid, if someone wants to suggest one just to see what it would look like I'm more than happy to whip one up.

Anyway, this post I quickly want to talk about how the moving and attacking mechanisms would work. Let's say that all the actions a Pokemon can perform is called a "turn". Well, when your Pokemon's turn begins, there are three things you can do: Move, Action, and End. They're all quite simple. The Move stage allows you to move your Pokemon from one grid square to another. The Action stage allows you to use one of your attacks or activate your Ability (if it can be activated manually) and perhaps the PMD mechanic of allowing typeless generic attacks could be implemented too. Lastly, the End stage ends your turn once you've done all you want to do. If we implement a direction facing mechanic, this is the stage where you would choose the direction you are facing before the turn ends. Note that you don't necessarily have to move or make an action, you can simply End your turn as soon as it starts. Lastly, some sources take the stance that you CANNOT move after you have performed an Action. Personally, I think the stages should be done in whatever order the Trainer wants to (Action followed by Move allows for hit-and-run style attacks) but this is an option. Please note that in a turn, you can only do each stage once (unless a Move/Ability/etc dictates otherwise, for example I'm thinking for the basic increased priority moves like Quick Attack these attacks can be done in addition to one other attack, but this is a discussion for another time).

Thoughts? (Please note this isn't everything, just everything I've put forward so far xD)

Ok good ideas i think that a good idea to go with it is

Turn 1 the pokemon have their turn in the order of speed the slowest should get to go first.doesnt matter whos pokemon they are. Inside turn 1 that poekmon can do as you say move, attack,end,direction. The problem we are seeming to have is how many tile a pokemon can move. i think that a how many tiles a pokemon can move should be decided by their speed i have just thought of a simple solution you take the pokemons speed for this example jolteons

Jolteons speed is

394 we divide this by 50 is 7.88 we should round this down to 7 (I know not proper rounding but i dont think we should round upwards) the 7 which is what we get after division is how many squares a pokemon can move, the speed should not change from speed boosting moves such as agility. or it could we should vote on it.

another example is donphan whos speed is 218 a slow pokemon

218 divided by 50 is 4.36 rounded down to 4 so he can move 4 tiles.

now this eation is ok for medium sized maps. we can change the dividing number to a larger number for smaller maps in comarison to their size. so for the small map which is only 6x8 you would divide the speed by 70 instead of 70 making it so the pokemon can move less tiles, in comparison to the size of the map it is equivelent to that of the medium map. I think that this could be a easy and good solution the the amount of tiles problem that we have encountered

I love your way of determining the number of tiles a Pokemon is able to move. It's roughly similar to the one I've been working on but more simple. It's easy to calc and from the looks of it the movement lengths would be somewhat accurate. The only thing I'm not so sure about is editing their tile movement length depending on the map. Part of the challenge of each encounter should be changing your battle plan to work around the environment, not simply editing your stats so each encounter is roughly the same.

For example, if there was an encounter on my first example gird, using a slow Pokemon like Donphan would be perfectly alright because you wouldn't need to do much maneuvering. However, in my most recent example map a Donphan might not be the best choice, seeing as it is so slow, so you should change your strategy. Perhaps you use a faster Pokemon, perhaps you stick with the Donphan and buff out its stats on the way to the fight so it can truly destroy its opponents. My point is that having morphing stats can be really painful, and they don't really add anything to the experience. Take your example game of Final Fantasy: Tactics Advance 2. There are many different map sizes in that game, but the movement allowance of each character never changes.

The only other thing I have a slight problem with is your first idea. If I read it correctly, you believe that in Turn 1, the slowest Pokemon should get to go before the fastest Pokemon? Why is this? How and when would this ever happen (excluding Trick Room)? Part of the strategy in choosing your Pokemon should be balancing your stats (or focusing on them as you choose). It's not really very fair to a speed based team to have to put up with a bad first turn for no adequately explored reason. I would be more open to this idea if you supply an explanation behind it.

Wonderful post. I'm loving all of this. Soon I'll doing another info post (one of the lastish ones) talking about status effects and giving an entire up-to-Gen-IV potential move list for people to discuss. That should be up tomorrow morning for me (12 hours time from this post) ish.

Thanks for all the input guys. I'm getting fairly psyched about this xD

Originally Posted by kanga

Ok good ideas i think that a good idea to go with it is

Turn 1 the pokemon have their turn in the order of speed the slowest should get to go first.doesnt matter whos pokemon they are. Inside turn 1 that poekmon can do as you say move, attack,end,direction. The problem we are seeming to have is how many tile a pokemon can move. i think that a how many tiles a pokemon can move should be decided by their speed i have just thought of a simple solution you take the pokemons speed for this example jolteons

Jolteons speed is

394 we divide this by 50 is 7.88 we should round this down to 7 (I know not proper rounding but i dont think we should round upwards) the 7 which is what we get after division is how many squares a pokemon can move, the speed should not change from speed boosting moves such as agility. or it could we should vote on it.

another example is donphan whos speed is 218 a slow pokemon

218 divided by 50 is 4.36 rounded down to 4 so he can move 4 tiles.

now this eation is ok for medium sized maps. we can change the dividing number to a larger number for smaller maps in comarison to their size. so for the small map which is only 6x8 you would divide the speed by 70 instead of 70 making it so the pokemon can move less tiles, in comparison to the size of the map it is equivelent to that of the medium map. I think that this could be a easy and good solution the the amount of tiles problem that we have encountered

I think this will work. In reffing, they tell us to round down, so it works here too. But yeah, the way you have the speed here seems like a good idea to me.