Thread: Why Do Our RPs Lack Staying Power? (Let's Solve This)

Anither point I'd like to add is player freedom. I for one certainly wouldn't keep with an RP where I feel like I'm being railroaded into doing what the plot says. I prefer to move the tracks of the plot over to the players rather than try and force the players to the tracks.

I like to flesh out a world and then allow players to play, thus essentially creating their own plot. Is this a good idea?

@Summer Camp: At least from a theoretical standpoint, very definitely yes. Speaking from experience, railroading the plot of an RP is a terrible, terrible idea, because players get frustrated that their choices don't mean anything. Moreover, if the players have little say in the plot (and therefore little say in the overall direction of the RP), the RP becomes ever more dependent on the GM. And that makes it very uninteresting.

I'd reckon that the best method for RP guidance and GMing in general is the 'unspoken threat and speculation' method: give a very general plot in a detailed world, let the players come to their own conclusions, and shape the plot in a logical fashion from what you like about that speculation. It's subtle and understated, but combines the best of a player-driven and a GM-driven RP. Players (or rather player characters) have a tangible say in what happens, while the GM prevents the RP from collapsing into pointless, meandering fluff and anarchy.

Of course, the above applies to story- and plot-driven RPs, which have some sort of quantifiable conclusion planned. If you're aiming for a more slice-of-life, interaction-focused RP like most academy RPs, then GM involvement is wholly unnecessary.

Originally Posted by Summer Camp

I like to flesh out a world and then allow players to play, thus essentially creating their own plot. Is this a good idea?

From my experience, it's usually not a good idea. Players can make a plot, and often do. But it's the GMs job to have events that characters react to. It's good to have a plot. I would suggest deviating from it if it would make sense. Like, if you planned to have a town destroyed, but the players figured out a good way to defend it, then I would suggest keeping the town alive. But you should have some idea of what's going to go down, and begin with a kind of end in mind.

As Renewal and Pi have said, sandbox RPs are notoriously challenging to execute effectively and almost always require far more GM guidance than is immediately apparent.

Another problem I have when it comes to roleplaying is that sometimes I simply am not certain how I should go about a situation. It's not that I don't know how my character would react; it's more about me being paranoid that what I want my character to do is not within the GM's plans. It's just that when I do make a mistake, I feel really stupid about it. I'm not sure if this is anyone's fault in particular, but it's just something that sometimes happens to me and it discourages me from joining very plot-orientated RPs just to avoid such a situation from happening.

I agree with the points raised here... its hard to try find a balance of keeping order whilst keeping it fun and not too dictatorial.. (it really sucks when people constantly go off topic and confuse people)

The way I see it, an RP is where you can be someone different. You can act out being a pokemon trainer, a evil wizard, even a talking dog. This naturally brings a problem. Most people want to make the RP about their character! In an attempt to prove this, they start god modding. When a GM calls them on this, the guilty player often leaves the RP. It's a thousand times worse when the GM is the one god modding. Often times it is difficult to call them out, seeing as they can kick you out. After all, what they say goes, right? Wrong. An RP is a delicate system. No one should have the ability to god mod, no matter if their a GM or a guy who doesn't post much. And like KrimsonNomad said, never travel in a group. You have to wait for other people to do what they planned in that area before you can move on. If you are able to, go solo. If you know someone is an active poster, you can go with them. Keep the group to only you two. This way you can just complete one or two things before going on. Remember; a group isn't the best tool to flesh out a character. In my expierence going solo is better, simply because you don't have a group to wait for. You can flesh out your character in thoughts and actions, which is difficult with a group setting.

Originally Posted by kenshin akagi

The way I see it, an RP is where you can be someone different. You can act out being a pokemon trainer, a evil wizard, even a talking dog. This naturally brings a problem. Most people want to make the RP about their character! In an attempt to prove this, they start god modding. When a GM calls them on this, the guilty player often leaves the RP. It's a thousand times worse when the GM is the one god modding. Often times it is difficult to call them out, seeing as they can kick you out. After all, what they say goes, right? Wrong. An RP is a delicate system. No one should have the ability to god mod, no matter if their a GM or a guy who doesn't post much. And like KrimsonNomad said, never travel in a group. You have to wait for other people to do what they planned in that area before you can move on. If you are able to, go solo. If you know someone is an active poster, you can go with them. Keep the group to only you two. This way you can just complete one or two things before going on. Remember; a group isn't the best tool to flesh out a character. In my expierence going solo is better, simply because you don't have a group to wait for. You can flesh out your character in thoughts and actions, which is difficult with a group setting.

Whats wrong with the RP being about your own character? nothing. SO long as your characters story is one of many things adding to the overall plot. This is how LoD works now. My main character Jericho is central tot he plot because of his past and everythign. so yes he is almost op, and all that, but no one else bothers to try this too. I want ppl to go and make their characters curical to the plot. then maybe they'd feel important enough not to leave.

LoD also has its main plot, but I really want ppl to go and make their own instead of waiting for me to make the plot come to them. and I dont meant he normal plot. they need to make their characters special, and make them be required for the story.

I find RPing to be the equivilant of writing a book with more then one author, but if some characters dont bother to do enough and be important enough they just get lost among NPCs.

also with groups. my latest RP. is only three RPers and four characters. both being people I trust to be active and myself of course, and after the first part I plan to make them go solo at points. the better they RP the better rewards they get IC. simple as that. rewarding players is another great thing to do. make them wanna keep going.

Originally Posted by KrimsonNomad

Whats wrong with the RP being about your own character? nothing. SO long as your characters story is one of many things adding to the overall plot. This is how LoD works now. My main character Jericho is central tot he plot because of his past and everythign. so yes he is almost op, and all that, but no one else bothers to try this too. I want ppl to go and make their characters curical to the plot. then maybe they'd feel important enough not to leave.

LoD also has its main plot, but I really want ppl to go and make their own instead of waiting for me to make the plot come to them. and I dont meant he normal plot. they need to make their characters special, and make them be required for the story.

I find RPing to be the equivilant of writing a book with more then one author, but if some characters dont bother to do enough and be important enough they just get lost among NPCs.

also with groups. my latest RP. is only three RPers and four characters. both being people I trust to be active and myself of course, and after the first part I plan to make them go solo at points. the better they RP the better rewards they get IC. simple as that. rewarding players is another great thing to do. make them wanna keep going.

Orright. First off, lemme point something out: Not everyone wants omni-powerful characters. If a character doesn't have any flaws or shortcomings, they're hard to relate to. That's a Mary Sue. Further, if a character is too powerful, things get boring, fast.

Second, it's kinda the GMs job to make plots. Players should be allowed to, sure, but the GM is kinda supposed to make these things happen. One that doesn't is kinda shirking their jobs.

Plus, if you're the GM, isn't it kinda bad to steal the spotlight from players? They're supposed to be the ones the story's about.

Besides, if everyone's trying to make their character the main one, then it becomes a huge competition. And then everyone's too focused on making their character strongest to write well.

Originally Posted by Pi Face

Plus, if you're the GM, isn't it kinda bad to steal the spotlight from players? They're supposed to be the ones the story's about.

An excellent observation. I've been in RP's before where the GM promptly created an 'all-about-me' character and stole the stage - I mean sure, the GM was having fun, but the rest of us kinda felt like we weren't needed, the GM might as well have just written a novel about his uber-important character if that was what he wanted to do.

That Pi is a lot of good points.

Firstly yes, OP is not OK. but power is. If someone has powers you need to balance them. I also wish Jericho didn't have to be a main character, but again I feel like no on has fully stepped up to point where I don't need to make Jericho so important. Like I said I carry a lot of weight. I literally was discussing mary sues with someone earlier.

The character inquestion was given power by 1 of 8 almighty immortal nature beings, sounds OP right? well its not.

the power is not mastered by the character, the spirit which gives him the power now shares his body and has a mind of his own, the power comes with a job, and then there are his mortal flaws like anger, hate, and love(he's blinded by it, and cares too much for one person to a point where he'd literally kill for her.). he also has generic weaknesses.

ok with plots I'm thinking more like mini arcs. the major plot ill focus on but if you got an idea i wanna hear it.

yeah it does suck having to control stuff. So often I want my RPers to do stuff, and I don't to force them, but sometimes do of course. So instead I just solo along the plot and make it about me. you wanna be part of it do something. thats the worst thing I can do really, but if you aren't gonna try and do stuff for the plot why join? this goes back to battles. LoD had lots of trouble with training. Ppl would train in fights and stuff so then charaters who were very trained just went alone.

Ok if i said main im sorry, but every character needs to be worth while. If you join an RP and not contribute your just dragging it down.

free to dicuss.

Originally Posted by KrimsonNomad

free to dicuss.

Well, now that I have your permission.

The character inquestion was given power by 1 of 8 almighty immortal nature beings, sounds OP right?

Yes.

well its not.

Oh.

the power is not mastered by the character, the spirit which gives him the power now shares his body and has a mind of his own, the power comes with a job, and then there are his mortal flaws like anger, hate, and love(he's blinded by it, and cares too much for one person to a point where he'd literally kill for her.).

Everyone has "anger, hate, and love." I'm not sure providing basic humanity counts as a weakness.

he also has generic weaknesses.

Oh good.

yeah it does suck having to control stuff. So often I want my RPers to do stuff, and I don't to force them, but sometimes do of course. So instead I just solo along the plot and make it about me. you wanna be part of it do something. thats the worst thing I can do really, but if you aren't gonna try and do stuff for the plot why join?

Players expect the Game-Manager to, well, manage the game. Obviously they need to DO stuff, but the plot is (hopefully) bigger than them and contains elements that will move forward with or without them, prompting them to respond.

RP'ing is about both acting and reacting, and many RP'rs come to the table prepared primarily for the latter. They expect the GM to generate a complex world for them to interact with and a compelling plot for their characters to react to.

Ok if i said main im sorry, but every character needs to be worth while. If you join an RP and not contribute your just dragging it down.

All characters are worthwhile, as long as (like you said) they contribute to the story. They don't have to drive the plot, but the RP'r does need to be involved, yes. That doesn't mean all the characters have to be equally powerful or influence the plot equally, just being a compelling character should be more than enough.

cant qoute on my 3ds.

Mortal is used like moral wounds. This character has terrible rage and can't control himself at times. The tiniest shred of his hate can lead him to murderer and his grudges last until death. like I said he's wildly in love, and too much so. so its half normal.

those general weakness are more solid things. ex. his powers dont work in the desert, they tie to emotion, they have charging and cooldowns, etc.

alright well big isnt a problem. What is that idk how to reveal plot without giving it away. I'm a man of many secrets.

I'd be fine with a compelling character if they kept up. ex. one character in LOD, Tempest, could have been amazing but just dropped off the face of the earth.

Alright, I'm not going to be just tossing in my two cents here. I'm going to be tossing in my whole wallet.

Firstly, there is one thing about RPs that, on both a literary and conceptual standpoint, serves to differentiate itself from true prose. That thing is the teamwork, the sense of inter-connectedness between both the GM and the participants, as well as between the participants themselves. If the members of an RP don't get along with each other or are otherwise prone to doing things that others find annoying or distracting, then the whole thing is doomed to failure.

I know that this might sound just a bit idealistic, and I know that this may seem difficult, but probably the most important thing for an RP's survival is that all of the participants feel connected with the story, with the other characters, with the participants themselves. Ultimately, the goal of an RP is to work together to create a story. If each of the characters are off doing their own thing in the RP, then you're not creating one story. You're just having multiple people write their own stories.

For the regular members of the RP: Make your characters interact. I know for a fact that I'm guilty of having characters that don't tend to interact much, if at all. Fix it. The relationships between characters can contribute immensely towards making the story compelling. Having a character who sits isolated from his surroundings makes for a schism in the storytelling, and can end up making the person controlling the character look like they care more about their own character than the others.

For the GMs: Convince the participants to interact with the story in some way. Put them into teams, place them in a social setting, give them an immense world to play around with, give them a challenge that can only be overcome as a group. If you don't give the characters opportunities to become a part of the story, then once again, all you're doing is breaking the story into multiple, less enjoyable ones.

Make sure that the players feel like they have a place in the story. Many an RPer has dropped out due to not feeling like their character even matters in the grand scheme of things, making them feel like dead weight. Allow each of the characters their own time in the spotlight, and don't shove them aside in favor of this awesome plot idea.

To that same extent, remember that, while the GM is who runs the RP, the players ultimately write the story. It's your duty as a GM to provide the players structure and support in order for the story to go on, but if every single major event happens due to the GM's hand, up to the point where the players don't even bother trying to do anything because they know that the GM decides everything anyways...then you're doing something wrong.

At the same time, players, don't try to steal the show. There is another extreme on the scale of character importance, and you would be wise not to tip the scale in the other direction. Although you do have your importance in the overall story of the RP, don't be a glory hound and try to steal all of the fame. Don't try and make the events gravitate around your character. Remember that RPs are a team effort, not just a mish-mash of people who all happen to have the same goal.

People like good stories. It is difficult to immerse yourself in a poorly-written story, and it's up to the GM to provide a storyline that the other players can have fun in. I'm afraid I'm not able to instruct you guys on good storywriting, but know that bad plots generally lead to bad RPs.

However, try and figure out if you're going to enjoy the RP before joining it. If you don't like storyline of a given RP, then don't join. If you have major problems with the GM or even some of the other participants that you know you won't be able to solve, then don't join. If for any other reason you think that you will not enjoy participating in the RP, DO NOT JOIN. You are by no means required to join a given RP, and the choice if entirely yours. Honestly, if you know that an RP is bad, and then join it anyways and start complaining that it's bad, you only have yourself to blame.

GMs, don't be afraid to boot participants if they're causing problems. One single unruly or problematic person can throw the whole RP out of balance. You need to recognize this and stop the problem before it gets out of hand. Also, try not to complain to, berate, or otherwise insult an RPer, even if they're causing issues. Most of the time, players don't write badly on purpose, and otherwise do not intend ill will upon your story. Give them a clear warning of what they are doing wrong, and tell them that further misconduct will result in being kicked from the RP.

If you yourself have a problem with something in the RP, don't represent it through your character. This can come off as...no, it IS incredibly disruptive, and not to mention just flat out rude to the people who are trying to keep things running smoothly. If there's a problem, just tell the GM.

Please, please, PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT BEING KICKED FROM AN RP DOES NOT ALWAYS MEAN THAT THE GM DOESN'T LIKE YOU. I apologize for the BBCode abuse, but seriously, you would not believe how many arguments have sprouted up as a result of this. If the GM is doing their job right, then they will not insult you, and will try and tell you what exactly warranted the action of booting you. If you are booted from an RP because you're genuinely doing something wrong, take measures to make sure that it doesn't happen again.

On that note, GMs must be able to recognize if something actually warrants disciplinary action. Sometimes, you will get complaints from other users, but it's up to you as the head of an RP to figure out if they are actually in the right when they tell you this. Often times, a Co-GM is useful in figuring these things out.

There is another thing that is extremely important in keeping an RP alive. GMs and players alike need to STAY ACTIVE. If you're going to need to drop out of an RP, make sure to tell the GM so he or she can take measures according to it. If you don't think that you're going to be able to handle keeping up with an RP, then drop out or just don't join in the first place. If you join an RP, you are pretty much telling the GM that you will be an active participant of the RP unless something happens and you tell them.

GMs also need to stay active, lest the whole RP end up falling apart. If you don't think that you can handle running an RP on your own, hire a Co-GM.

Now, on less of a technical outlook and more of an introspective outlook, there are a few other points I'd like to discuss.

Large RPs with loads of information are really intimidating for newer RPers. I'm not condemning the notion of complex RPs altogether, but understand that, sometimes, people prefer just being able to have fun with an RP and not having to worry about the storyline and such. This is why RPs with simpler plots tend to last; because the participants don't have loads of information to absorb.

The concept and structure of our section are fairly alien to some. Let's not kid ourselves; we're a fairly obscure corner of the forums, and as such, a lot of the things we take for granted aren't as widely understood as we'd like to imagine. Don't assume that people know every in and out of RPing. Everyone here was a beginner RPer at some point, and it's our job to make sure that any newcomers here don't end up stepping away due to the rather intricate workings of the section.

If you're having an RP-related problem that you can't seem to solve, don't be afraid to report it to us. I'm not going to lie to you guys; my job feels more like an honorary status that has no real purpose to it. There are plenty of things that happen around here that a moderator could help with, but most of the time it's confined to an OOC discussion thread and generally slips by our (semi)wary glances. Don't convince yourself that you're bothering us by reporting a problem or asking us to step in and help with your RP problems. Honestly, there are days that I wish something bad could happen so that I can actually exercise my position as staff.

There is always room for improvement, and don't be afraid to ask for help improving. We all have our faults as RPers, and some of us have quite a few difficulties managing to work out the things necessary to make a good, thriving RP. The Metronome Forum is here for a reason. Use it. If you want help managing your RP, need help working out a certain plot point, or something else along those lines, there are plenty of different people here, myself included, who would be glad to help you.

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ONE THOUSAND, SIX HUNDRED AND SIXTY TWO WORDS.

HOLY CRAP.