Since both threads were pretty much talking about the same thing, I merged them.
It depends on the show
Neither; I speak Japanese
Since both threads were pretty much talking about the same thing, I merged them.
Dubs. Complaining about 'bad' voice acting when the voice acting in the original is unintelligible and thus worse is a very strange arguement for subs.
I should make it clear that I like Localizations more than translations. There is a difference. While a straight up translation can never be superior to the original, localizations can. Thats right, i like it when dubs change character names and stuff.
A good example is Transformers Cybertron. From what I know, the original japanese is a decent show. What makes the dub exceedingly superior is that they change all the names to more familiar ones while in the original, all of them are new characters despite looking identical to older ones. Another thing is the typical anime tropes present in the original. Characters randomly gain new powers and no one treats this as strange. Characters regularly go all DBZ and gain abillities that they never had before for Deus Ex Machina purposes. The dub desperately tries to tie in these powers to objects and beings already existing in the lore, such as Megatron getting new powers because of Unicron, etc. Characters act surprised at all the strangeness. The original also made excessive use of transformation stock footage. The dub adds dialouge where the characters explain shit or ask why they always do these long transformation scenes. All this makes the dub far superior even though there is absolutely nothing terribly wrong about the original.
Although I can see that progress has been made I genuinely cannot tolerate most dubs. Why? Because they always sound like they're trying too hard to be expressive, to me. No idea why but I can rarely take them seriously. I've always preferred subs and while I've dipped my toes into the water that is dubbing I simply cannot and will not watch dubbed anime, no matter how many chances I've tried to give it.
Out of curiosity, have you ever seen a series like Gravitation or Digimon Adventure/Adventure 02? Both dubs aren't that great, imo. Both suffer from characterization issues. For example, there's Shuuichi in Gravitation. His character is supposed to be incredibly optimistic, energetic, and hyper, not only in his actions, but in his voice. His original voice actor did that very well. For the dub, his voice was dull and monotone, like he was shot up with Ritalin. Terrible portrayal of the character. There were other characters who didn't sound right for the roles either based on their personalities, but he stood out the most for me since he was a main character.
As for the Digimon Adventure/Adventure 02 series, I'm not going to get on the voice thing too much (even though Iori [Cody] sounded like a nine-year-old chain smoker), but I will complain about the actual writing and characterizations. Most were pretty much wrong. My favorite character for the most part was Koushirou (Izzy). I liked his background and all that. One thing to be noted that just like with Iori and Hikari (Kari), he's incredibly polite and well-mannered. He isn't the type to insult you or make snarky comments. He's also into computers and also curious about how things work. The dub made him way smarter than he actually was (he does not study physics or play science-related games for fun), they made him kind of a smart alleck (like he knows he's "smarter than everyone else"), and worse of all, for me, for 02, he was rude. That was much too out of character for me, and he wasn't the only one who was changed up character wise. Jou was ignored (to me HE was the smart one because he focused his energies on school and was really into math and science). The series had character bashing that wasn't there for the original towards Daisuke (Davis), which really wasn't warranted, Mimi became an airhead for the dub just because she had the "popular girl" status, etc. For that reason and probably older series, it may be the reason why some would just prefer subs to dubs. They're seeing the series in the way that it was intended.
For the record, I am not trying to make you watch subs or anything, just thought I'd point that out because of what you said about the voice thing.
I still have to say, though, with the whole dub/sub thing, it really really just depends on the series for me, even though granted, I haven't seen a dub of anything in ages (I barely watch anything anymore). Like, for instance a series like Noir works better in English since English voice actors can pull off the accents better, but the original is okay too. Then there are some series where the dub seems awful to me...like Fushigi Yuugi.
I tend to prefer subs over dubs, because very rarely are dubs able to convey the same feeling of the characters/story compared to the original. The CLANNAD dub, for instance, sounds terrible to me because hardly any of the voices seem to properly represent the characters and story like the original japanese voices do.
Not to say that all dubs are bad though. Lucky Star is one of those few anime that got a good dub; the english cast is able to properly convey the same hilarity and feeling that made the original great. I've heard the Hetalia dub is also pretty good compared to the original, some saying it's better, mostly because the english cast goes all out with the funny accents, which makes everything all the more enjoyable. Oh, and I prefer the Funimation DBZ dub to the original, one of the main reasons being that Goku doesn't sound all squeaky in it.
Now I prefer original Dragon Ball to the dub since I hate seeing things cut, but the only thing I'd change is Goku/Gohan/Goten's voice actress. I think I get what they were trying to do (and don't get why they even bothered doing that with Goten since he was far from ever being "innocent"), but for me, it just doesn't work. I wish they would've changed the voice actress when Goku/Gohan/Goten became adults for the original. The voice suited them fine when they were kids and in their early teens.
This brings me to my biggest gripe with supporters of subs and that being that most don't even understand Japanese and yet they continuously claim that the japanese voice acting is far superior. They forget even the most basic necessity for comparison, that being a deep understanding of all objects being compared.
In the end, what we are discussing here is personal preference. Maybe the japanese voices are actually not very good compared to actual japanese speech, but in this case that doesn't matter at all; I just like how the japanese sounds more than the english.
You seemed to ignore something that actually is a gripe of mine...characterization changes. I hate when characters are changed for whatever the reason. Rumor for the example I mentioned for Digimon Adventure 02 was that the head writer didn't like certain characters and tossed stuff in that wasn't originally there, like the character bashing that I mentioned and even tried to imply something between one of the characters and his Digimon partner, once again, something that wasn't originally there. I have a problem with stuff like this and would hope that dubs wouldn't do this, but some are guilty of it, although I doubt most series do that now.
Only thing about actual voices that I do find griping is when the voice sounds either too old or too young for the character, but it's usually the former that bothers me and I've felt this way ever since I was a little kid. Oh, and this isn't limited to just "anime" stuff. It always bothered me when a little boy, for instance, sounds like an adult male. It didn't feel realistic to me and this goes both ways...original and dub.Well, in my case, I don't mind subs because I grew up with closed-captioning since my grandmother has lived with my family since I was about four years old and she's hearing impaired. We've used closed-captioning televisions and stuff since I was about 11 or 12 when they were starting to become more commonplace. I hate watching anything without some type of captioning or subtitling because I'm just so used to it. I understand stuff better when I read it anyway, but never mind.This brings me to my biggest gripe with supporters of subs and that being that most don't even understand Japanese and yet they continuously claim that the japanese voice acting is far superior. They forget even the most basic necessity for comparison, that being a deep understanding of all objects being compared.
As for your other gripe, it is just a personal preference. I think it's easy to compare even if you don't fully understand the language. If you're watching something, and the character is supposed to be full of emotion (originally) and then you see the dub and that character lacks emotion in every way possible, even if said character's actions show otherwise, then we have a problem there.
That aside, there are some who do get some Japanese...enough to the point where they can pick up on certain things. I kinda fail in that regard. Unless the show is really kiddy or the plot is simplistic, I can get it okay even without subs (Pokemon comes to mind), but something like Detective Conan with all that technical talk, I definitely need subs or a translation as the only parts of an episode I would get, would be anything involving casual junk. Hm, I've even noticed "mistakes" in the subs for that Ninja Warrior show. Like, the announcer is saying one thing, and I catch what he's saying, and the subs are saying something else.
I prefer the Japanese in pretty much every anime I watch
But as for pokemon, I prefer the english dubs better cuz I'm much more familiar with the english names of pokemon and characters.
It depends. I used to just watch dubs, but once I watched Pandora Hearts subbed, I really liked the Japanese voices. And I get kind of sick of hearing the same voice actors(English) over and over. It wouldn't be so bad if they actually did different sounding voices, but they usually don't. And that ends up annoying me.
I guess I take whichever is available...
Of course, there are certain shows I can ONLY watch in English. Like Death Note. One of the best dubs ever. L's English voice=Sexy.
Even if the dub is horrible(as many actually are) unless you are fluent in Japanese, you have no business saying the Japanese Voice acting is better.
Most of the mistakes in subs that you talk of are because the those who do the subs are often not fluent in Japanese either and some of them just use direct word for word translations.
As for those who say the originals are much more mature and use curse words which the dubs censor, most of the time, you have been a victim of bad subbing. From what I know, the curse word 'Kuso' which I thing means shit is often delibrately translated into more extreme versions. Besides, as someone already pointed out, it takes real skill to write a mature story without resorting to curse words.
I also find that those who are against dubs are much more picky. They complain about 'pointless' changes (Riceball-Donut, I'm looking at you) They rage and curse the dub. But if the chage really is 'pointless' why get so worked up about it? You know what it really is. You know that when the dubbers say a character passed on/away/went to the next dimension, they really mean that they died. This is especailly egregious in DBZ where death means crap and characters die and come back more all the time.
@Blazaking EX I have nothing against subs. I don't say that dubs are better in quality than subs. I'm just pointing out that the arguements people use for liking subs more are very odd and don't make much sense. I watch dubs not because I think they are of better quality. (although I do like most of the changes they made in the anime in the anime that I watch) I watch dubs because I understand the spoken language. Since I don't understand Japanese, the Japanese voice acting when I'm watching subs is just irritaitng background noise.
Subs because the voice actors actually sound like the voice for the animations.
Hang the DJ.