I don't think people simply dislike Bronies due to sexism...in fact, a lot of people who dislike Bronies do so because they feel they are the sexist ones.
I mean, the show was made to be a strong show for female girls, yet a large majority of the fanbase (the older male part) claim that the show is made for them, and even the term "Brony" is a gender-inclusive nickname. Plus I've seen a lot of people with kids legitimately worry about their daughters and nieces watching My Little Pony since the creepy side of the fanbase, with "clopfics" (once more, I can't think of any fandom who actually has a specific name for their porn) and such are pretty widespread and easy to come upon on Google. I know you have this problem with other fandoms, Pokemon and Sonic to name two, but neither one of those I feel is as hardcore and mainstream. Most of the Sonic ones are usually awkwardly made by younger folks experimenting and such or people with mental disabilities, but Brony fandom, from what I've seen, has even the "normal" folks spreading around pornography and other child-unsafe material.
It's not that it's guys liking something "girly", it's that most of the fans I've seen try and claim the show is actually made and aimed for adult males. And that's the same problem I have with older Pokemon fans who try and make the series all about them, for the record. That "Brony Study" posted a few posts back is one such example...sure, there have been sociological studies done on fandoms before, I read one about Star Trek the other day, but it's usually done objectively by someone OUTSIDE the fandom and the fandom doesn't utilize it in order to counter the haters.
If it does seem to pop up a lot, it's usually a sarcastic point. Most fans I know (and I consider myself a pretty invested fan at this point and have interacted with quite a few of them irl) do not seriously think this show is meant solely for males.
From the context I understand how that study was conducted, the psychologist who did the study was outside the fandom initially, but got enamored by the show through studying it by the end.That "Brony Study" posted a few posts back is one such example...sure, there have been sociological studies done on fandoms before, I read one about Star Trek the other day, but it's usually done objectively by someone OUTSIDE the fandom and the fandom doesn't utilize it in order to counter the haters.
Because of the fact that particular psychologist is a fan of it now, it does give the appearance of bias, though the study was conducted mainly out of curiosity; because of how new the fandom was with both the positive and negative reactions to it. He and his partner in the study do have the credentials to back it up, so I imagine out of professional stature they kept the study unbiased.
As for 'defense' I particularly don't see any need to defend myself for liking something, but that's because I'm comfortable with who I am. However not everyone can feel as though they stand on solid ground. There are different people out there that feel they might need a crutch through supporting 'studies' and 'inserted themes of masculinity' because they're afraid to be classified as the outcast through liking the show. With ponies it's very easy to get treated like that. I think it's the same reason, like you stated, older pokemon fans do that too; so their hobbies don't get perceived as immature and should 'just go away.'
They feel a drive to legitimize it so people around them DON'T have to bash them and they can continue to like what they want in peace, but driving that point too hard ends up working against their favor as we see from fans who go a bit too over the top. :/
So for that reason we get people like you've described.
Which reminds me, in order to answer @matt0044; 's question, I forgot to add one of the larger points that the rational fans aren't observed because they'll normally stay out of the crossfire. I don't blame them, flame wars are pretty aggravating and a needless waste of energy. It's typically the heated folks that will take time to respond. But yeah, it's hard to visualize the saner people if they're not there to pop up. At least we know they're there.
There are from specialized blindbag sets being released now. I managed to snag these at Target the other day.
Last edited by Rayne; 11th August 2012 at 10:29 AM.
-In Simple Harmony-
Ah, I see. I have that Rainbow Dash figure as well. But I got my figures in a set that includes all six main ponies plus six special edition ponies who are named Beach Berry, Sweetsong, Skywishes, Coconut Cream, Peachy Pie, and Gardenia Glow. :PThanks! There are from specialized blindbag sets being released now. I managed to snag these at Target the other day.
But why the heck doesn't that Apple family set include Apple Bloom?! That's just not right!
Now I have to give away my old Pony blind bag toys to get those new ones because I already the mane six versions.
Those look interesting. My sister would like them.
Originally Posted by French Narrator
i am so excited for earthbound release :DOriginally Posted by Shigesato Itoi
I agree with Rayne that whatever side of the fandom thinks that the show is actually for adult men, it's small and most of them are tongue-in-cheek. The worst I've ever heard sincerely is that the show is designed to appeal to parents as well as kids - which is true - but I think the majority of fans are aware that it's a kids' show first and foremost. Whenever there's a significant adult periphery demographic for a kids' show, there's always an element that feels like they have to explain their interest by denying that it's really for kids. (The phenomenon even has its own TV Tropes page.) It's nothing unusual and the brony fandom doesn't even have that much of it compared to some others (like the Pokemon fandom itself, for example).
Also, while there are definitely reasons other than sexism for disliking ponies and I think everyone here has acknowledged that, I'm pretty sure that when it comes to the adolescent and young-adult males who make fun of the bronies on 4chan or YouTube, or the people who decide programming for the Jerry Springer show, it's probably not coming from a place of concern about young children stumbling across clop, it's because they want to ridicule guys for liking a girly show.
And lastly, while I'm not a clop fan, they are perfectly within their rights to create it, and if a parent is concerned about their kid stumbling across something like that it is their responsibility to monitor their kids' web access so that doesn't happen. There are very few good justifications for censorship, but lazy parenting is definitely not one. Most people seem to accept that there are parts of TV - certain channels or time-blocs - that are allowed to be "adults-only," and it's your own damn fault if you let your kid watch something like Mad Men or most HBO shows and it freaks them out. Why can't people accept this with the Internet as well?
Last edited by Faye Valentine; 11th August 2012 at 05:59 PM.
I personally think people who make pornography of a kid's show aimed and meant to be a strong source of character building for young girls (a rarity, as fans of MLP like to point out themselves) should be arrested or fined at the very least, though. It's harmful, and monitoring a child constantly isn't that easy...I think it's a serious problem and the people who make it are entirely to blame.
Thankfully I read a story the other day about Hasbro sending a Cease and Desist letter out to the dude who was making and selling MLP plushes with anal-holes...once again, stuff like this is why I think the whole Brony thing is weird. That just doesn't happen anywhere else.
Yes, that thing doesn't happen anywhere else but not everybrony is in on this. In fact, most aren't and disapprove of it very much. The Bronies overall aren't in some hive mind as you'd be quick to assume but they're just a bunch of individual males who like this one show/franchise that is said to be outside their age/gender demographic. Just like us Pokemon fans (minus the gender thing).
And it's rule friggin' 34. Pokemon has porn made of it. Digimon too. Hell, Barney as well. MLP isn't and wasn't going to be immune to it either.
I don't mean to come off a rude. I'm just telling you how it is.
The reason that clop isn't illegal is because you are, in fact, wrong; it harms absolutely no one. Child pornography is illegal because children are abused to make it, as is porn that abuses (real) animals and such, but other kinds of pornography are legal, no matter how "sick" some people find it, because it doesn't hurt people to make it (or if it does, they're adult humans who are being hurt with their consent). Pastel-colored talking ponies are not real so there is no way you could hurt them in making porn of them. (And one could make the argument, like a lot do with animated child porn, that if these people are truly into bestiality - and I think it's debatable whether or not someone who is into cartoonish talking horses of human levels of intelligence would be attracted to actual horses anyway - that it's a good deterrent to them going after the real thing.) Whether people can be hurt "morally" or in other subjective criteria is a constantly moving goalpost, which is why those kinds of arguments have never held much weight in free-speech cases. At the end of the day, if you find something "sick," it is your responsibility to not watch it or keep your kids from watching it, and that's all it can ever be in a truly free society.
Because think about it: nearly all of us have an interest or two that some would-be censor out there finds morally abhorrent. (If you think you don't, you aren't looking hard enough.) Time and time again, people have united with efforts to censor things that they found sickening, only to find the laws they helped create used against them by the next over-zealous guardian of morality. That's why the First Amendment has to be absolutely objective and blind. If it isn't, there is no end to the slippery slope, because as I said before, the kind of goalposts you want to erect are the ones that are very easily moved.
Also, Hasbro has also shut down people profiting off of non-sexual My Little Pony toys and no, this isn't actually the first time that someone has made "adult" merchandise of a little girls' show. (Hell, some of the stuff from that link is actually officially licensed.) Also, if you're talking about the toy I think you are, the guy who made it did it as a joke to make the fandom look bad.
ETA: Just wanted to reiterate, in case this post made it unclear because of how strong my defense of it is, that I really don't like clop myself; however, I am really really really anti-censorship and that conviction doesn't mean a lot if I only stand up for works I like.
Last edited by Faye Valentine; 17th August 2012 at 11:21 PM.
An interesting note, when this fandom was very young, 2010 young, 4Chan pony haters were actually bombarding /co/ with pony porn to try turn people away from the show. So in effect, much of the pony porn came from outside the fandom. It didn't really work... but that bombardment kinda set some of the precedent for what exists unfortunately as it brought it to the forefront sooner.
So there are probably fan artists out there that concentrate on it because that outlet may have brought them into the fandom that way.
Thankfully most of the 'public' faces of the fandom are good about shying away from posting smut and porn so if someone's really that interested in finding it, they're going to be sneaking around the same shady sites all other porn belongs to. I wander a bunch of MLP sites and very, very rarely encounter it.
Both my younger sisters are into it, in fact most of my family loves it. I don't know about other little girls within the demographic though, but I imagine most bronies can't really be aware of how big the younger demographic is since I think it's a safe assumption that most of the younger deomgraphic wouldn't be allowed or don't have the physical access to get to the content bronies put out there. The younger graphic just doesn't get as much exposure on the internet, thankfully, so hence, they're a rarity.
I actually hadn't heard that yet, but that's great news!Thankfully I read a story the other day about Hasbro sending a Cease and Desist letter out to the dude who was making and selling MLP plushes with anal-holes...once again, stuff like this is why I think the whole Brony thing is weird. That just doesn't happen anywhere else.
Oh boy, yeah I'd rather not get started with the turbulence within the brony community that caused for a while.
But I do know that the artist who commissioned that work honestly didn't care about the fandom. He openly admitted on his DA page that he did it to get lulz out of the brony community since he really doesn't like them and was proud of the negative reaction it stirred up since it was more than he anticipated.
Still, I admire the steadfastness of the community to make light of a negative situation, joking and sketching up with alternate uses for that plush like a Mug Cozy, sock puppet, pencil holder, etc. everything aside from the obvious. That plush was received in quite negative taste by the majority of fans.
Despite the pseudo debate format we have going on here, I'm really glad you're having this conversation as myself or any other users here are happy to discuss some of these details in depth if it helps you, or anyone passing by understand the MLP fans in better context. In some cases I might even agree with you that yes, there are parts of the fandom just out of control. I'm sure you don't see Bulbagarden's MLP fans as the same rabid fans out there (I hope).
It's easy for anyone to see a chunk of the fandom in one particular light this goes for anyone who is or isn't a fan of the show. Some fans don't like other parts of the fandom just as much as some haters don't like the whole fandom.
The fandom is fascinating to me because of how diverse it is, accumulating people from nearly every interest group and watching it all mix together (and that's wherein lie some of the problems too and we get people like you've described.)
But you can't really tell people to leave so you just have to sort of live with it and take it as part of the larger community. At only 2 years old, the fandom is still evolving. Crazy pokefantics existed in 2000 when pokemon was still new and there were just as many haters and bullies against the brand too. Things didn't quiet down until about 3-4 years in after much of the initial hype subsided.
I feel this is what's going on with Ponies right now. In about another year the fandom will quiet down quite a bit, but at least those left will be more palatable fans that actually care about the values of the show, so hopefully it gets less annoying for people out there ^^;
EDIT: Oh wow ^^ GBM pretty much covered the points pretty well as I wrote this.
But yeah, I'm in agreement with much of what she says.
So the soft-take down was probably the best PR move they could have pulled without ousting a fan favorite. So far WhiteDove has been allowed resume posting images of her creations to her DA as long as she doesn't mention selling them there. However, she's continued to do commissions in private which Hasbro is turning a blind eye to.
Last edited by Rayne; 11th August 2012 at 09:38 PM.
-In Simple Harmony-
Pony pornography, huh? I'll admit that I can kinda understand the attraction to them, I am a little bit. A very little bit, don't judge me. But the whole idea of "doing it" to ponies is just sickening to me, I don't agree with it. Ugh. The worst part of the fandom undoubtedly....
I hate furries. It's just sick with ponies. Of course, R34 ponies were unavoidable, but I like my image macros, and not pony pornography.
People are idiots. People like that, who make pony pornagraphy are sick.
Originally Posted by French Narrator
i am so excited for earthbound release :DOriginally Posted by Shigesato Itoi
Last edited by Faye Valentine; 13th August 2012 at 04:02 AM.