Too many Pokemon in the Pokemart?
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  1. #1
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    Default Too many Pokemon in the Pokemart?

    A lot of people have mentioned this on AIM in the past, but I don't think it was ever posted on the forums. A good few are of the opinion that there are too many Pokemon in the mart and some mart choices are a little random and seemingly unnecessary. IMO, it'd be a lot cleaner if the mart was reduced to starters, route one rodent and bird, fossils, pseudolegends, pikaclones and Eevee. There are a lot of Pokemon in the Mart that are Simple rank, so if they weren't in it, there'd be a lot more stories too, which is always a plus. Here's a quick proposed list if people like the idea. Pokemon remaining in mart in bold


    Bulbasaur - $10,000
    Charmander - $10,000
    Squirtle - $10,000
    Pidgey - $7,000
    Rattata - $7,000

    Sandshrew - $8,000
    Nidoran ♀ - $9,000
    Nidoran ♂ - $9,000
    Zubat - $6,500
    Meowth - $8,000
    Bellsprout - $6,500
    Geodude - $6,500
    Doduo - $7,000
    Seel - $8,000
    Grimer - $8,000
    Shellder - $8,000
    Voltorb - $8,000
    Exeggcute - $8,000
    Goldeen - $6,500
    Pinsir - $11,000
    Ditto - $8,500 - debatable
    Lapras - $11,000 - debatable
    Eevee - $10,500
    Omanyte - $13,000
    Kabuto - $13,000
    Dratini - $13,000



    Chikorita - $10,000
    Cyndaquil - $10,000
    Totodile - $10,000
    Sentret - $7,000
    Hoothoot - $7,000

    Ledyba - $8,000
    Spinarak - $8,000
    Chinchou - $7,000
    Pichu - $6,500
    Cleffa - $6,500
    Igglybuff - $6,500
    Togepi - $6,500 - debatable
    Mareep - $6,500
    Hoppip - $6,500
    Aipom - $8,000
    Sunkern - $8,000
    Wooper - $8,500
    Misdreavus - $9,000
    Pineco - $7,000
    Snubbull - $8,000
    Shuckle - $9,000
    Heracross - $11,500
    Teddiursa - $8,000
    Slugma - $8,000
    Corsola - $9,000
    Phanpy - $8,000
    Tyrogue - $9,000
    Smoochum - $8,000
    Elekid - $8,000
    Magby - $8,000
    Larvitar - $13,000


    Treecko - $10,000
    Torchic - $10,000
    Mudkip - $10,000

    Poochyena - $6,500
    Zigzagoon - $7,000
    Taillow - $7,000

    Wingull - $7,000
    Azurill - $6,500
    Plusle - $8,500
    Minun - $8,500

    Numel - $8,000
    Trapinch - $9,000 - arguable
    Lileep - $13,000
    Anorith - $13,000

    Shuppet - $8,500
    Duskull - $10,000
    Wynaut - $6,500
    Spheal - $8,000
    Bagon - $13,000
    Beldum - $13,000



    Turtwig - $10,000
    Chimchar - $10,000
    Piplup - $10,000
    Starly - $7,000
    Bidoof - $7,000

    Shinx - $7,000
    Budew - $6,500
    Cranidos - $13,000
    Shieldon - $13,000

    Pachirisu - $8,000
    Buizel - $7,000
    Bonsly - $6,500
    Mime Jr. - $8,000
    Chatot - $8,000
    Gible - $13,000
    Skorupi - $10,000
    Mantyke - $8,000


    Snivy - $10,000
    Tepig - $10,000
    Oshawott - $10,000
    Patrat - $6,500

    Lillipup - $7,000
    Purrloin - $10,000
    Pansage - $9,000
    Pansear - $9,000
    Panpour - $9,000
    Pidove - $6,500
    Blitzle - $10,000
    Woobat - $6,500
    Yamask - $9,000
    Tirtouga - $13,000
    Archen - $13,000

    Emolga - $7,000
    Karrablast - $9,000
    Ducklett - $9,000
    Axew - $13,000
    Shelmet - $9,000
    Rufflet - $10,000
    Vullaby - $10,000
    Deino - $13,000


    Chespin - $10,000
    Fennekin - $10,000
    Froakie - $10,000
    Bunnelby - no idea why this isn't in current mart anyway
    Fletchling - $7,000
    Dedenne - $7,500
    Tyrunt - $13,000
    Amaura - $13,000
    Goomy - $13,000


    Just to note, with these suggestions there are still 53 lines of Pokemon in the mart, meaning there are about 1/3 of nonlegends available in mart, which is a lot more manageable imo. Really interested to know how people feel about this!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Too many Pokemon in the Pokemart?

    Ya, I've always thought there were too many Pokemon in the mart too. I think that the idea of having a lot of Pokemon in the Mart is a very outdated idea (as evidenced by how few Pokemon are in the Mart from Gen VI), going back to pre-Art/park when stories (and occasional events) were literally the only way to get Pokemon not in the mart. Now that there are a lot more options for members to obtain Pokemon, I think that it wouldn't be out of the question to do an overhaul of the Pokemart.

    In terms of specifically which Pokemon: Personally, I would like to see fossils be removed from the Pokemart, and then make them less difficult to get from the underground and lower their story rank. I think that would make the underground actually worth going to (I have a lot of grievances about this, but I'll save for another time). Also, I think that it isn't really necessary for them to be Complex rank. I honestly think the only reason they are complex is because they are available in the mart, so if removed from mart they could easily be dropped to Hard/Medium (I mean it's not like any of them are really that good, though I guess they are "rare" in game).

    Some more notes on Syn's list:
    • Pichu/Cleffa/Igglybuff/Togepi/Azurill (aka the baby "fairies") because they are all sort of beginner-esque Pokemon that offer several competitive Pokemon in their final forms
    • Ditto should stay, but Lapras should go. Ditto is a niche Pokemon that just makes sense to me as a Mart Pokemon. Honestly, never understood why Lapras was mart to begin with ("because they give you a Lapras in game!!!" ya they also give you a Riolu egg and a Larvesta egg).
    • Poochyena/Shinx/Lillipup/Purrloin/Blitzle. I think all of the quadruped early game Pokemon should be available, they are all defined by GameFreak as "Beginner Pokemon" so making them available easily is obviously not an issue.
    • I don't see why Trapinch needs to be mart. It isn't really a "pseudo," nor is it that good.
    • Pansage/Pansage/Panpour - Beginning game Pokemon that aren't very good, but also are usable.
    • Pachirisu - You got the other Electric Rodents, probably just missed this one.
    • Budew - This one I'm not really sure on, but it is a very early Pokemon in D/P/Pt, though it sort of breaks the mold of early game Pokemon. I could go either way with this.
    • Ledyba / Spinarak - For consistency's sake, I think if they do get removed from the mart they should definitely be bumped down the Easiest rank since they are the only beginning bugs that are simple (for whatever reason). Also, consider bumping them regardless since it makes little sense to me. (Maybe original thinking was three stage Bugs would be easiest and two stage simple? But Kricketot and Burmy have since both been added to Easiest. An alternative would be to bump those two up to Simple)


    Anyway, those are my thoughts on this. I think it's a little unfair to new members, but since we're opening a new branch maybe it wouldn't be that bad? I understand there are a lot of logistical concerns to this, but I've always thought it was a good idea.
    Last edited by Elamite; 29th January 2014 at 02:49 PM.

  3. #3
    ._. Synthesis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Too many Pokemon in the Pokemart?

    I don't see it so unfair for them really since most of the mons that I suggested are Simple rank, which even new members can write for easily enough. I agree with the baby Pokemon too, although they could be included if we ever did a Daycare or way to get Eggs, or just some Easter events. Fossils being removed make it a lot harder to get Rock types which a lot of newer members like to go for as a gym type. I'm not overly against it though.

    Also, something I forgot to note was Pokemon have been removed from the Mart before so it isn't unheard of, and could really be a right step when moving towards a new branch and promoting other methods of obtaining Pokemon.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Too many Pokemon in the Pokemart?

    Doing this massively screws up the type balance available in the mart. For instance, I don't see a single Ghost that's getting kept. I'm actually much less against this than I thought I would be. More stuff should be added to the Berry Store if the mart is being thinned down though.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Too many Pokemon in the Pokemart?

    Well, to clarify, I didn't mean unfair as in "Pokemon are now so hard to get!!!" I meant every member who joined before suddenly has more valuable Pokemon. Not to mention the fact that URPG is already kind of hard for beginners. Also, I don't think we should say Rock Gyms should be easily available just because beginners have had Rock Gyms in the past... Kinda feels like the whole one type deserves special treatment argument (akin to Wildcard).

    To address Ash's displeasure with type balance:

    I see two sides to this: on the one hand, I don't really think type imbalance is that big of a deal. I mean ghost/dark types are notoriously difficult to get in game so logically they would be the same in the URPG. Like, there's a reason that Bug Pokemon are so easily obtained, it's because a lot of them are not very good. Plus, there aren't an equal amount of Pokemon for each type, so why should there be an equal amount of each type available in the mart?

    However, I could see how "forcing" (not really forcing but bear with me) members to get Pokemon types they don't like could seem unfair. Therefore, I'd like to offer a solution. Why not go ahead with the list Syn has above (of mostly beginner Pokemon, starters, and the pseudo legendaries) and then offer 1 Pokemon of each type. In Syns suggested list the only type missing is Ghost... I don't see why something like Yamask couldn't stay in the mart.

    In my suggested list (the biggest drop of which was the fossil pokemon):

    Bug (which is the easiest type to get Pokemon from, though I think Pinsir would be a good one to keep), Ghost (see above, Yamask) & Ice (besides Glaceon, but something like Spheal would be fine to keep)

  6. #6

    Default Re: Too many Pokemon in the Pokemart?

    Yeah, I didn't necessarily mean it had to be exactly equal amounts of each, just that it's unfair for any type to be missing entirely. Also, isn't Lillipup and/or Purrloin first route (at least in B2W2) and Poochyena first route?

    As far as I can tell, Poison is also absent. Perhaps something like Zubat should stay, because that's really easy to get in game too.

    Another crazy idea is to keep the babies.
    URPG Official, Senior Referee, Chief Judge, Elite Four Member, Johto LO, Mistralton City Gym Leader, Celestic Town Division Head, Kumquat Island Gym Leader
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    [18:13] alaskapigeon1: and you have OCD that rivals monk's
    "When you can have anything you want by uttering a few words, the goal matters not, only the journey to it." -Rhunön the Elf (Eldest: Inheritance Book 2)
    "You might think it’s to help you be a better battler. Really it’s just to make your battles less painful for the poor referee that has to face-palm every turn." - Monbrey

  7. #7
    URPG Moderator Monbrey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Too many Pokemon in the Pokemart?

    Not seeing a strong argument for why this would be good other than "More stories/art/park". I'm not opposed either, I'd just like to see more discussion.

    Could someone do a breakdown of what ranks the proposed removed Pokemon fit into? Would probably help to know what difficulties we'll be forcing people into if this did happen.

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    Default Re: Too many Pokemon in the Pokemart?

    Although more stories/art is a really good reason, another one is the list we have now has a lot of Pokemon that just don't fit in. Pinsir, Lapras, Chatot and such make no sense to be in the Mart.

    Regarding type balance, I don't think there is a need to go out of our way to include one of each type. Like Smores said, types like Dark, Ghost and Ice are hard to get in-game and less numerous than other types, so making them not available from the Mart doesn't seem that strange to me. Forcing them in because of types probably leads to "you didn't include my favourite of whatever type" and potential "bias".

    Including the babies could work. I don't really feel strong for or against it tbh.

    Monbrey, regarding ranks, the vast majority are Simple, with a few Medium and Hard. One Demanding and maybe two Complex.

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    Default Re: Too many Pokemon in the Pokemart?

    Simple 35
    Medium 22
    Hard 10
    Complex 3
    Demanding 1

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    URPG Moderator Monbrey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Too many Pokemon in the Pokemart?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synthesis View Post
    Although more stories/art is a really good reason, another one is the list we have now has a lot of Pokemon that just don't fit in. Pinsir, Lapras, Chatot and such make no sense to be in the Mart.
    This is based on the assumption that EVERY Pokemon in the mart needs to fit a strict set of rules or pattern for eligibility. There are some givens (such as the starters/pseudos etc) that get a spot. The rest are chosen at random, general Pokemon that we'd like to make available easily. The only difference with Gen 6 was that due to the smaller total number in the generation, we decided not to include randoms after the given spots were filled.

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    Default Re: Too many Pokemon in the Pokemart?

    Just throwing this out there, but you might want to look at the actual viability of the Pokemon in question, as opposed to rank. How many people actually go about buying Bonsly or Geodude or Chatot or Misdreavus or Sunkern or Snubull?

    These are 'mons for new people, because they're easy to acquire and hook the new player on the game, because it gives them the ability to have multiple 'mons early and with considerably less effort.

    Quite frankly, the majority of the ones you've proposed to stop selling aren't that powerful and I don't see why they shouldn't be in the mart, for that very reason. We, as older players, don't want to buy them. Think about the new people, instead.

    Credit to HikaruIzumi for the awesome avatar!

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    URPG Moderator Monbrey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Too many Pokemon in the Pokemart?

    Quote Originally Posted by GliscorMan View Post
    Just throwing this out there, but you might want to look at the actual viability of the Pokemon in question, as opposed to rank. How many people actually go about buying Bonsly or Geodude or Chatot or Misdreavus or Sunkern or Snubull?

    These are 'mons for new people, because they're easy to acquire and hook the new player on the game, because it gives them the ability to have multiple 'mons early and with considerably less effort.

    Quite frankly, the majority of the ones you've proposed to stop selling aren't that powerful and I don't see why they shouldn't be in the mart, for that very reason. We, as older players, don't want to buy them. Think about the new people, instead.
    This post is far too considerate of other people. That's now how Trainer's Court works.

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    Default Re: Too many Pokemon in the Pokemart?

    Quote Originally Posted by GliscorMan View Post
    Just throwing this out there, but you might want to look at the actual viability of the Pokemon in question, as opposed to rank. How many people actually go about buying Bonsly or Geodude or Chatot or Misdreavus or Sunkern or Snubull?

    These are 'mons for new people, because they're easy to acquire and hook the new player on the game, because it gives them the ability to have multiple 'mons early and with considerably less effort.

    Quite frankly, the majority of the ones you've proposed to stop selling aren't that powerful and I don't see why they shouldn't be in the mart, for that very reason. We, as older players, don't want to buy them. Think about the new people, instead.
    With my proposed list there are still 53 families of Pokemon in the Pokemart. That's quite a substantial amount. Now that new players don't have to depend solely on stories (with art and contest and park and eventually dungeons freely available), there's absolutely no need to have an excessive amount like the current 126 families.

    I think you've got the idea all wrong to be honest. Being a white knight can be cool I guess, but quite unnecessary here. New players very often go for the starters or pseudolegends or Eevee. All those options and more would still be available. Very few people buy Pokemon such as Chatot.

    Looking at many of the Pokemon to be removed, I'm limiting everyone, not just new people. Myself definitely included. I don't really own many marts and same with a lot of players who actively take part in most of the URPG sections.

    Also, fyi, making things easier to obtain does not hook people into URPG. If you want them easier to obtain, make them even cheaper than they are and expand the mart selection to include every Pokemon seems like a great way to bolster activity. Sorry dude, but your argument is pretty inaccurate. Think of everyone, instead.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Too many Pokemon in the Pokemart?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synthesis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GliscorMan View Post
    Just throwing this out there, but you might want to look at the actual viability of the Pokemon in question, as opposed to rank. How many people actually go about buying Bonsly or Geodude or Chatot or Misdreavus or Sunkern or Snubull?

    These are 'mons for new people, because they're easy to acquire and hook the new player on the game, because it gives them the ability to have multiple 'mons early and with considerably less effort.

    Quite frankly, the majority of the ones you've proposed to stop selling aren't that powerful and I don't see why they shouldn't be in the mart, for that very reason. We, as older players, don't want to buy them. Think about the new people, instead.
    With my proposed list there are still 53 families of Pokemon in the Pokemart. That's quite a substantial amount. Now that new players don't have to depend solely on stories (with art and contest and park and eventually dungeons freely available), there's absolutely no need to have an excessive amount like the current 126 families.

    I think you've got the idea all wrong to be honest. Being a white knight can be cool I guess, but quite unnecessary here. New players very often go for the starters or pseudolegends or Eevee. All those options and more would still be available. Very few people buy Pokemon such as Chatot.

    Looking at many of the Pokemon to be removed, I'm limiting everyone, not just new people. Myself definitely included. I don't really own many marts and same with a lot of players who actively take part in most of the URPG sections.

    Also, fyi, making things easier to obtain does not hook people into URPG. If you want them easier to obtain, make them even cheaper than they are and expand the mart selection to include every Pokemon seems like a great way to bolster activity. Sorry dude, but your argument is pretty inaccurate. Think of everyone, instead.
    There's a balance between "so frustratingly impossible I'm not even going to bother" and "So easy there's no point anymore".

    *Points to signature* "When you can have anything you want by [posting] a few words, the goal matters not, only the journey to it."

    They are quite right, most of the things you're proposing cutting out are things I see new members buy 10x as often as older members. When's the last time you saw someone who's been around for a while buy Wingull, Poochyena, Sunkern, Lillipup, Ledyba, etc.?

    Many new members might not be very good artists/writers/etc. or might simply have no interest in doing any of those. In almost four years in URPG, I've earned three Pokémon from stories, one from park, and none from art. I'm not sure if I would have stuck around initially if I couldn't get very many Pokémon from the mart. While the opposite does also exist (someone like Felly who refuses to buy anything from the mart) and anywhere in between, we can't ignore any part of that range.

    It's amazing how many of these hypothetically great suggestions (usually involving either Pokémon availability or basic battles) would be such great ideas if not for having to balance new members and old members (not saying we shouldn't balance new members and old members, we definitely have to).
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    [18:13] alaskapigeon1: and you have OCD that rivals monk's
    "When you can have anything you want by uttering a few words, the goal matters not, only the journey to it." -Rhunön the Elf (Eldest: Inheritance Book 2)
    "You might think it’s to help you be a better battler. Really it’s just to make your battles less painful for the poor referee that has to face-palm every turn." - Monbrey

  15. #15
    URPG Moderator Monbrey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Too many Pokemon in the Pokemart?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synthesis View Post
    With my proposed list there are still 53 families of Pokemon in the Pokemart. That's quite a substantial amount. Now that new players don't have to depend solely on stories (with art and contest and park and eventually dungeons freely available), there's absolutely no need to have an excessive amount like the current 126 families.

    Fair enough. 126 families is a lot, I completely agree. And there's plenty of other sections where they can be obtained that would benefit from an activity boost, as you've mentioned before.

    I think you've got the idea all wrong to be honest. Being a white knight can be cool I guess, but quite unnecessary here. New players very often go for the starters or pseudolegends or Eevee. All those options and more would still be available. Very few people buy Pokemon such as Chatot.

    Here's the problem - as you say, many of the Pokemon you suggest we remove are the less popular ones. The ones people are likely to want are still in the Pokemart. Pokemon that people wont buy probably wont be written, roleplayed or... art-ed for either.

    Looking at many of the Pokemon to be removed, I'm limiting everyone, not just new people. Myself definitely included. I don't really own many marts and same with a lot of players who actively take part in most of the URPG sections.

    Also, fyi, making things easier to obtain does not hook people into URPG. If you want them easier to obtain, make them even cheaper than they are and expand the mart selection to include every Pokemon seems like a great way to bolster activity. Sorry dude, but your argument is pretty inaccurate. Think of everyone, instead.

    Think of everyone, fair enough. We shouldn't make decisions to benefit one group of people. But this doesn't limit everyone equally. It hurts the newer players who are trying to build lineups from a single type that the rest of us already have. You said you don't have many marts, but I'd be willing to bet you bought all the Electric Pokemon when you needed them.
    I'm just not seeing any strong arguments to completely remove all these Pokemon. Some could be, others could be replaced. An overall restructure of the Pokemon available in the Pokemart would probably be a good thing. Generation 2 is flooded with Pokemon because of all the babies. But I see no reason that we have to stick to a strict set of rules as to what can and can't be in the Pokemart.

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