"Secrecy" of the Staff Board

[KidBeano]

It was only a matter of time.

Ok, so, it's hard to have not seen the slightly heated discussions recently about the staff boards. In light of Chainy locking his thread, I thought instead of clogging up the URPG Chat thread, this is probably a better option. But I will say this once, and once only (in big, bolded text for your convenience):

If all you are going to say is something along the lines of "I'm a mod, I know better, quit bitching", kindly gtfo.

Now that that's over with, these seem to be the current points for each side.

Against Staff Boards
1. A lot of the stuff that is discussed in the staff boards is inappropriate for that section. Quite a lot of the time, it's felt that these sort of topics are quite clearly Trainer's Court-worthy, as they rely on the members being happy as well. However, it's important to note that this isn't saying "eradicate the staff boards and post everything in the Trainer's Court", because as mods have said, this would just end up being untidy. Rather, a suggestion similar to the one in point 2 should be implemented.
2. Members are kept in the dark for a considerable amount of time for some issues. A suggestion has been to create a "Weekly Report" thread, to which Bumble and Ataro both said they liked the sound of, and they would bring it up. Ironically, I have seen no thread in the Trainer's Court about it, so I can only assume it's been brought up in the staff boards (which evidently brings us back to point 1).
3. It's not just members that feel this way. I'll be pretty blunt - one thing you can't deny is that someone who has access to the mod boards is leaking information from it. They obviously think this information is not worthy of being kept private. Haze, an ex-mod, has also made points that he feels the staff boards are too private.

For Staff Boards
1. Some discussions aren't suitable for members' eyes from the get-go. Some of the mods feel that, using the expansion as an example, posting information about it too early would've been detrimental to the actual result of an expansion, due to getting people's hopes up, the idea being shot down, etc... However, counter-arguments include that the URPG is mature enough to handle rejection.
2. It's impossible to please everyone. An implementation that one person loves, another person might hate. Not everyone can be kept happy by every decision.
3. Stfu and listen to the mods. To anyone who is thinking of saying this, please refer to the size 5 bolded text at the top of this post.

---

Civilised discussion would be nice here. :3 We're all equals.

I'm sure most people know my stance on this. The Weekly Report thread, where it just gives members an idea of what's going on in the staffboard (no details, just "We're discussing the idea of an expansion", then "We have a couple of contacts, but nothing is set in stone yet, so don't jump to any conclusions"), just to keep us updated with progress.

Also, bans/promotions SHOULD be private. I don't think anyone really disputes that.

[LS the Door Mat]

what about the unbanning of our good friend ketamine

[ChainReaction01]

It's good to see that you're posting this. I'd like to think that if any URPGer had a problem with the system they'd be able to come forward and talk about it.

Okay, I'm gunna go through your initial post and give my opinions on what's in there:

Against Staff Boards
1. A lot of the stuff that is discussed in the staff boards is inappropriate for that section. Quite a lot of the time, it's felt that these sort of topics are quite clearly Trainer's Court-worthy, as they rely on the members being happy as well. However, it's important to note that this isn't saying "eradicate the staff boards and post everything in the Trainer's Court", because as mods have said, this would just end up being untidy. Rather, a suggestion similar to the one in point 2 should be implemented.
2. Members are kept in the dark for a considerable amount of time for some issues. A suggestion has been to create a "Weekly Report" thread, to which Bumble and Ataro both said they liked the sound of, and they would bring it up. Ironically, I have seen no thread in the Trainer's Court about it, so I can only assume it's been brought up in the staff boards (which evidently brings us back to point 1).

Firstly, I'd like to say that the possibility of an "update thread" or sorts has been brought up in the Staff boards. However, everything has been put on hold while we deal with the leaking that's been going on.

Next, I want to address something. People are acting like the Staff board is this big vault of secrets. In reality, it's not. A weekly update thread would be useless, because it is not uncommon for the Staff board to lay unused for weeks at a time. Granted, it's been more active recently what with the leaking and the expansion, but in times of "peace" it lays silent an awful lot of the time. If there was to be an update thread, I'd say make it fortnightly, and even then a good third of the posts would just be "nothing to report".

For Staff Boards
1. Some discussions aren't suitable for members' eyes from the get-go. Some of the mods feel that, using the expansion as an example, posting information about it too early would've been detrimental to the actual result of an expansion, due to getting people's hopes up, the idea being shot down, etc... However, counter-arguments include that the URPG is mature enough to handle rejection.

The reason I give for keeping potential expansions in the dark is the following: The first step is always scouting a forum / it approaches us. If we then post this in a thread, URPG members are gunna go check it out. It's only natural. They're gunna go sign up and have a look and maybe even start advertising the URPG. So then, what happens if the forum decides they don't want us? Our members just clogged up their forum for no reason, and potentially stole some of their members (or some of their time, at least). That doesn't make the URPG look good, and looking good is the only way we expand. I agree that once it's concrete and threads are being moved over, there could be an announcement, but there was going to be in Harry's State of the URPG announcement which was delayed for various reasons.

From your post in General Chat:

Just one thing I wanna comment on Chainy's post:

"Your URPG Leaders are always open to discussion if you have any questions or concerns regarding topics such as the recent expansion plans or URPG improvements. Just as you pitch ideas to us, you are equally welcome to ask what ideas we are planning, and we will answer as openly and honestly as we can without compromising what we are working towards. We are not politicians - we are a committee of your peers. We work to benefit everyone and your input and feedback is appreciated in this process."

So that's why the mods outrighted lied to us and dismissed the expansion as nothing more than a rumour to begin with? Ok. All it would've taken for people is a "Yes, we're looking into an expansion". Doesn't promise anything, doesn't compromise the project. If you wanna respond, don't do it in here. Do it here or get me on AIM.

I'm very interested in exactly when we supposedly denied the expansion. If you're talking about when TE leaked, we never actually denied anything, we just didn't comment. If you're talking about some other time, please give me a link.

Something I want to point out. The meeting log of our initial meeting is up everywhere, you can search it out if you want. Anyway, here is literally everything that was discussed:

Request: Contest stats being merged with normal stats.
Request: Creation of a Leader-esque Contest League.
Discussion of TPW as a potential expansion.
Discussion of GTS+ as a potential expansion.
Vote on expansion.
Discussion of other, later potential expansions.
General agreement there is enough Staff for now.
Request: new Park addition, Mystery Zone.
Request: Endurance Run as a Main RP option.
Reminder that Staff issues are to be kept private.
State of the URPG address to be given out soon.

So, following that:

Request: Contest stats being merged with normal stats. Probably should have been discussed openly.
Request: Creation of a Leader-esque Contest League. Possibly could have been discussed openly.
Discussion of TPW as a potential expansion. Should not be discussed openly for the reason I outlined above.
Discussion of GTS+ as a potential expansion. Should not be discussed openly for the reason I outlined above.
Vote on expansion. Should not be discussed openly for the reason I outlined above.
Discussion of other, later potential expansions. Should not be discussed openly for the reason I outlined above.
General agreement there is enough Staff for now. Promotions/bans, everyone agrees should be kept private.
Request: new Park addition, Mystery Zone. Was brought up in public.
Request: Endurance Run as a Main RP option. Was brought up in public.
Reminder that Staff issues are to be kept private. General reminder.
State of the URPG address to be given out soon. Public announcement: was going to reveal TPW expansion.

If we'd had things our way (i.e. the leaks hadn't started) Harry would have released the State of the URPG two weeks ago and the TPW expansion would have been officially-released knowledge. So, in this regard, the leaks are slowing official updates while we attempt to plug them.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that what's up there is literally everything that's been discussed in the past month or two by the staff (with the exception of the leaks, because they hadn't started yet), and all of it except the Contest stuff is either very-early expansion planning, stuff that shouldn't be made public, or stuff that already had been discussed in public.

[KidBeano]

It's good to see that you're posting this. I'd like to think that if any URPGer had a problem with the system they'd be able to come forward and talk about it.

Okay, I'm gunna go through your initial post and give my opinions on what's in there:

Against Staff Boards
1. A lot of the stuff that is discussed in the staff boards is inappropriate for that section. Quite a lot of the time, it's felt that these sort of topics are quite clearly Trainer's Court-worthy, as they rely on the members being happy as well. However, it's important to note that this isn't saying "eradicate the staff boards and post everything in the Trainer's Court", because as mods have said, this would just end up being untidy. Rather, a suggestion similar to the one in point 2 should be implemented.
2. Members are kept in the dark for a considerable amount of time for some issues. A suggestion has been to create a "Weekly Report" thread, to which Bumble and Ataro both said they liked the sound of, and they would bring it up. Ironically, I have seen no thread in the Trainer's Court about it, so I can only assume it's been brought up in the staff boards (which evidently brings us back to point 1).

Firstly, I'd like to say that the possibility of an "update thread" or sorts has been brought up in the Staff boards. However, everything has been put on hold while we deal with the leaking that's been going on.

Fair enough.

Next, I want to address something. People are acting like the Staff board is this big vault of secrets. In reality, it's not. A weekly update thread would be useless, because it is not uncommon for the Staff board to lay unused for weeks at a time. Granted, it's been more active recently what with the leaking and the expansion, but in times of "peace" it lays silent an awful lot of the time. If there was to be an update thread, I'd say make it fortnightly, and even then a good third of the posts would just be "nothing to report".

Ok, I see what you mean, but sometimes no news is good news, right? At least we'd then have written proof if you were posting "Nothing to report" for a month, then announced some big thing which "the mods have been discussing over the past month". And when it does get up to massive updates (B/W, the expansion, etc...) then at least it'll have use then. You could maybe even use it to tease us a little bit. "Got something really interesting lined up in the next couple of weeks. Watch this space ;)"

For Staff Boards
1. Some discussions aren't suitable for members' eyes from the get-go. Some of the mods feel that, using the expansion as an example, posting information about it too early would've been detrimental to the actual result of an expansion, due to getting people's hopes up, the idea being shot down, etc... However, counter-arguments include that the URPG is mature enough to handle rejection.

The reason I give for keeping potential expansions in the dark is the following: The first step is always scouting a forum / it approaches us. If we then post this in a thread, URPG members are gunna go check it out. It's only natural. They're gunna go sign up and have a look and maybe even start advertising the URPG. So then, what happens if the forum decides they don't want us? Our members just clogged up their forum for no reason, and potentially stole some of their members (or some of their time, at least). That doesn't make the URPG look good, and looking good is the only way we expand. I agree that once it's concrete and threads are being moved over, there could be an announcement, but there was going to be in Harry's State of the URPG announcement which was delayed for various reasons.

Everyone keeps giving the "URPG members will spam the forum" reason - that's not the point I'm making. I'm NOT saying give us every little detail "We've found out that TPW might be interested in having us expand there", but rather "We've got some potential candidates for expansion, but nothing solid yet." Personally speaking, that'd be enough, just to at least know whereabouts progress is, even if the details of the progress aren't said. It's like when you're installing a program on the computer. You get the % complete, and also sometimes the "Installing: File X in Folder Y". You really couldn't care less about File X and Folder Y, you just care that it's at 54% completion.

From your post in General Chat:

Just one thing I wanna comment on Chainy's post:

"Your URPG Leaders are always open to discussion if you have any questions or concerns regarding topics such as the recent expansion plans or URPG improvements. Just as you pitch ideas to us, you are equally welcome to ask what ideas we are planning, and we will answer as openly and honestly as we can without compromising what we are working towards. We are not politicians - we are a committee of your peers. We work to benefit everyone and your input and feedback is appreciated in this process."

So that's why the mods outrighted lied to us and dismissed the expansion as nothing more than a rumour to begin with? Ok. All it would've taken for people is a "Yes, we're looking into an expansion". Doesn't promise anything, doesn't compromise the project. If you wanna respond, don't do it in here. Do it here or get me on AIM.

I'm very interested in exactly when we supposedly denied the expansion. If you're talking about when TE leaked, we never actually denied anything, we just didn't comment. If you're talking about some other time, please give me a link.

I am talking about when TE leaked, this post in particular. I know it's not "We're not expanding", but it's still chalking it up to nothing more than a rumour, and implying nothing is really happening. And when reading between the lines is the only thing we have to go by, it's hard not to misinterpret.

Something I want to point out. The meeting log of our initial meeting is up everywhere, you can search it out if you want. Anyway, here is literally everything that was discussed:

Request: Contest stats being merged with normal stats.
Request: Creation of a Leader-esque Contest League.
Discussion of TPW as a potential expansion.
Discussion of GTS+ as a potential expansion.
Vote on expansion.
Discussion of other, later potential expansions.
General agreement there is enough Staff for now.
Request: new Park addition, Mystery Zone.
Request: Endurance Run as a Main RP option.
Reminder that Staff issues are to be kept private.
State of the URPG address to be given out soon.

So, following that:

Request: Contest stats being merged with normal stats. Probably should have been discussed openly.
Request: Creation of a Leader-esque Contest League. Possibly could have been discussed openly.
Discussion of TPW as a potential expansion. Should not be discussed openly for the reason I outlined above.
Discussion of GTS+ as a potential expansion. Should not be discussed openly for the reason I outlined above.
Vote on expansion. Should not be discussed openly for the reason I outlined above.
Discussion of other, later potential expansions. Should not be discussed openly for the reason I outlined above.
General agreement there is enough Staff for now. Promotions/bans, everyone agrees should be kept private.
Request: new Park addition, Mystery Zone. Was brought up in public.
Request: Endurance Run as a Main RP option. Was brought up in public.
Reminder that Staff issues are to be kept private. General reminder.
State of the URPG address to be given out soon. Public announcement: was going to reveal TPW expansion.

If we'd had things our way (i.e. the leaks hadn't started) Harry would have released the State of the URPG two weeks ago and the TPW expansion would have been officially-released knowledge. So, in this regard, the leaks are slowing official updates while we attempt to plug them.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that what's up there is literally everything that's been discussed in the past month or two by the staff (with the exception of the leaks, because they hadn't started yet), and all of it except the Contest stuff is either very-early expansion planning, stuff that shouldn't be made public, or stuff that already had been discussed in public.

I think someone said Mystery Zone wasn't discussed in public, but idk. Either way, that's my fault for assuming it wasn't, since I don't use the Park. I suppose I'd have seen it if I was a frequent user :3

[ChainReaction01]

Ok, I see what you mean, but sometimes no news is good news, right? At least we'd then have written proof if you were posting "Nothing to report" for a month, then announced some big thing which "the mods have been discussing over the past month". And when it does get up to massive updates (B/W, the expansion, etc...) then at least it'll have use then. You could maybe even use it to tease us a little bit. "Got something really interesting lined up in the next couple of weeks. Watch this space ;)"

I see what you're saying, and I'm not against an update thread, I just don't think it'll be of much use.

I am talking about when TE leaked, this post in particular. I know it's not "We're not expanding", but it's still chalking it up to nothing more than a rumour, and implying nothing is really happening. And when reading between the lines is the only thing we have to go by, it's hard not to misinterpret.

It's gone from "outright lied and dismissed the expansion" to "chalking it up to rumour". That's a pretty serious drop. And like I explained last post, the reason we didn't officially announce anything was that it was going to be in Harry's State of the URPG address, which was coming out in like a week. The reason that it didn't was that the leaks started, and we've been concentrating on that.

I think someone said Mystery Zone wasn't discussed in public, but idk. Either way, that's my fault for assuming it wasn't, since I don't use the Park. I suppose I'd have seen it if I was a frequent user :3

Mystery Zone was discussed in public. Anyway, my point is that barring the Contest stuff all of the meeting's discussion was either already discussed in public or not yet ready for it, which reinforces my overall point that in reality, the Staff doesn't do much in private, and the things that we do keep secret don't stay that way for long.

[WinterVines]

The mystery zone may have been talked about in one of the chats instead of the forums, but still, that information was up in the air and could have been talked about. You can always ask some of us if we've been thinking of anything new/if you want to give ideas and input.

Also, Monbrey brushed some things off as rumors because we wanted to keep the situation contained, not give leakers more fuel to work with.

And, we did have a expansion discussion before, and a lot of people were in support of it. Just because we weren't able to act on it that second didn't mean it wasn't going to happen eventually, so news of expansion shouldn't have been that big of a surprise. Without the leaks, you guys probably would've learned about PW (if they hadn't released info early on us) shortly after it was leaked, in the Address.

I'm okay with an update thread if it's absolutely necessary, but like Chainy's been saying, it would be very blank. If you want to know that badly what we're thinking about/discussing, it'd be a lot easier for those few people to just ask us directly, and then we can tell you what's up if we can. I can volunteer to be your to go if you like :3

[AmericanTreeFrog]

It was only a matter of time.

Ok, so, it's hard to have not seen the slightly heated discussions recently about the staff boards. In light of Chainy locking his thread, I thought instead of clogging up the URPG Chat thread, this is probably a better option. But I will say this once, and once only (in big, bolded text for your convenience):

If all you are going to say is something along the lines of "I'm a mod, I know better, quit bitching", kindly gtfo.

Now that that's over with, these seem to be the current points for each side.

------ I don't care about this above ^

Against Staff Boards
1. A lot of the stuff that is discussed in the staff boards is inappropriate for that section. Quite a lot of the time, it's felt that these sort of topics are quite clearly Trainer's Court-worthy, as they rely on the members being happy as well. However, it's important to note that this isn't saying "eradicate the staff boards and post everything in the Trainer's Court", because as mods have said, this would just end up being untidy. Rather, a suggestion similar to the one in point 2 should be implemented.

Anything that gets done in the URPG can be considered Trainer-Court worry. Instead of having a load of people argue back and forth and a thread descend into a flame-fest, the URPG has opted for a Staff that resolves matters. It's a practical approach and it hasn't failed so far. If anybody is unsatisfied with anything that gets decided then they can come here. Making a weekly thread is a waste, and as Chainy said, not enough activity happens in the Staff board to warrant a thread.

2. Members are kept in the dark for a considerable amount of time for some issues. A suggestion has been to create a "Weekly Report" thread, to which Bumble and Ataro both said they liked the sound of, and they would bring it up. Ironically, I have seen no thread in the Trainer's Court about it, so I can only assume it's been brought up in the staff boards (which evidently brings us back to point 1).

I addressed this above.

3. It's not just members that feel this way. I'll be pretty blunt - one thing you can't deny is that someone who has access to the mod boards is leaking information from it. They obviously think this information is not worthy of being kept private. Haze, an ex-mod, has also made points that he feels the staff boards are too private.

Just because someone thinks something should be made public at a moment in time doesn't make them right. It is strictly their opinion, same as it for the staff. Haze being an ex-mod doesn't give his arguement any more credit than anyone else, I'm sure some ex-mods don't agree with Haze just as I'm also sure some do.

For Staff Boards
1. Some discussions aren't suitable for members' eyes from the get-go. Some of the mods feel that, using the expansion as an example, posting information about it too early would've been detrimental to the actual result of an expansion, due to getting people's hopes up, the idea being shot down, etc... However, counter-arguments include that the URPG is mature enough to handle rejection.
2. It's impossible to please everyone. An implementation that one person loves, another person might hate. Not everyone can be kept happy by every decision.
3. Stfu and listen to the mods. To anyone who is thinking of saying this, please refer to the size 5 bolded text at the top of this post.

---

Civilised discussion would be nice here. :3 We're all equals.

I'm sure most people know my stance on this. The Weekly Report thread, where it just gives members an idea of what's going on in the staffboard (no details, just "We're discussing the idea of an expansion", then "We have a couple of contacts, but nothing is set in stone yet, so don't jump to any conclusions"), just to keep us updated with progress.

Also, bans/promotions SHOULD be private. I don't think anyone really disputes that.

Anyway, almost everything the staff brings up is eventually distributed to the public to make them aware. Nobody is kept in the dark about the issues that affect the URPG. Often cases a problem for the staff is brought up in a public thread or in the AIM chats then the staff talks about it. It's not like the staff just makes out of the blue changes and expects the rest to abide by them.

[Roulette]

However, counter-arguments include that the URPG is mature enough to handle rejection.

Fairly sure that this whole mess has proven that URPG is NOT mature enough to handle some things. If you get mad every time something doesn't go exactly how you want, you're only proving that you're no better than a selfish child. Let the mods and officials do their jobs. This is a busy time for them, and we don't need people whining about things while they're trying to get work done. Things are kept "secret" for a reason, but its reason is not to harm URPG. The point is to thoroughly discuss whatever the topic is, and find and fix any issues with it before presenting it to URPG. If they didn't do that, you would just bitch about all the problems with whatever it was.

[We Taste Pies...]

Request: Contest stats being merged with normal stats. Probably should have been discussed openly. ATF mentioned it on a whim during the staff meeting. It was barely even worth discussing, most people did this already.
Request: Creation of a Leader-esque Contest League. Possibly could have been discussed openly. ATF first introduced it during the staff meeting. There was no "long term development" to discuss. Its more than likely a prototype for the final product.
Discussion of TPW as a potential expansion. Should not be discussed openly for the reason I outlined above. Then stop referencing it please
Discussion of GTS+ as a potential expansion. Should not be discussed openly for the reason I outlined above. ^
Vote on expansion. Should not be discussed openly for the reason I outlined above. I actually disagree with this one believe it or not, but whatever floats your boat.
Discussion of other, later potential expansions. Should not be discussed openly for the reason I outlined above. Again, I wouldn't mind discussing it with the public.
General agreement there is enough Staff for now. Promotions/bans, everyone agrees should be kept private. Yes.
Request: new Park addition, Mystery Zone. Was brought up in public.
Request: Endurance Run as a Main RP option. Was brought up in public.
Reminder that Staff issues are to be kept private. General reminder. You make us remind you so frequently, I don't see why anyone would need a reminder >_>
State of the URPG address to be given out soon. Public announcement: was going to reveal TPW expansion. I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to...? If you mean TPW publicly announcing URPG, we weren't informed that they were going to do that.

Anyway, what I think time after time you fail to understand is that there really isn't much going on in the staff boards. I would really appreciate if you would stop attacking us with this issue, because I'm a mod, I know better, quit bitching. I know better because I know what the contents of the staff boards are and you do not. What you fail to see is the staff's point of view in this argument. You have repeatedly played the victim, while you fail to give any good reason why this is a "problem". If you would like to be taken more seriously, perhaps gather some kind of support among other members, then talk to us, instead of posting an inflammatory statement about how you assume we're going to pass this off as nonsense without reading it. We are certainly going to read it first before we realize its nonsense

EDIT: I would apologize for my slightly rude rhetoric, but this:


If all you are going to say is something along the lines of "I'm a mod, I know better, quit bitching", kindly gtfo.

Made it quite clear that you did not want an entirely civil discussion, and so, you shall not be granted one.

[Monbrey]

If I may, I can quite easily explain my response to TE.

Do you know why I brushed it off as a rumour? Because to anyone who didn't have direct access to the leaked information, do you know what the expansions plans were? A rumour.

Amongst ourselves, we had confirmed plans to expand to TPW. We had discussed making a statement informing the public of this, perhaphs when we had a solid date to announce or the plan had actually moved forward past the "Yes you can come here!" stage. GTS+ was quite literally nothing but a rumour. TE claiming there would be a double expansion was false, and although we would like to move there eventually, we have no current plans to put that in motion.

As Chainy has already mentioned, if it weren't for all the leaks, we would have been able to focus 100% on the TPW expansion. We would have moved a lot further along with it and probably announced a date by now. Instead we've had to deal with a select few working against the majority.
Either you're right, and they just think the information should be shared, in which case they seem to believe their opinion is somehow more important than the privacy we have instated, in which case they're arrgoant and quite direspectful to Harry and the rest of the staff. Or they have a larger agenda.

So to put it quite simply, I really don't appreciate it that I get criticised for telling everyone that a bunch of rumours is just a bunch a rumours.

EDIT: Also, I disagree with Ketamine's banning. I remember Haze used to openly admit to leaking from the staff boards, yet he went by unpunished. Why should the associate of a 'corrupt' official receive a permanent ban when a full on 'corrupt' official received nothing?

The 'full on corrupt official' hasn't recieved anything yet.

[Alaskapigeon]

Okay, because I like and respect you as a person, I'm going to try to be civil, but keep in mind I use the word 'fuck' as a punctuation mark. So.

Against Staff Boards
1. A lot of the stuff that is discussed in the staff boards is inappropriate for that section. Quite a lot of the time, it's felt that these sort of topics are quite clearly Trainer's Court-worthy, as they rely on the members being happy as well. However, it's important to note that this isn't saying "eradicate the staff boards and post everything in the Trainer's Court", because as mods have said, this would just end up being untidy. Rather, a suggestion similar to the one in point 2 should be implemented.

You don't really provide a lot of examples here. From what I can see of the staff meeting though, I do believe that most of it should've been kept private. I could care less about the contest stuff or the new park zone (sorry judges and rangers, those points weren't uber significant), but the expansion stuff should've been. Even a mention that we might be expanding somewhere would've been bad. Here's my reasoning: every time any major change is mentioned, we do get some good feedback. However, that feedback comes from regular members who are on every day or every other day or something like that. People like the staff themselves, Maverick, Captain Dude, Webbie, you, Buoysel, etc. Then of course, there is the BAD feedback. (Note when I say good or bad, I mean constructive criticism vs. trolling, not positive and negative) People who come on once a month or less suddenly feel the need to speak up and say "THIS DIDN'T WORK BEFORE AND I WAS AGAINST IT BEFORE AND IT'LL FUCK EVERYTHING UP AND I'M AFRAID OF CHANGE". They post, and they spam, and make everyone else nervous and nothing gets done. I don't mind people coming up with reasons against something, if they're smart about it. I didn't like the idea of expanding at first, however, with our current lull in activity, I think it might be a smart idea, however, I agree with other people's statements (such as Xali's) that we have a lot to fix with the main URPG if we really want to keep new members.

2. Members are kept in the dark for a considerable amount of time for some issues. A suggestion has been to create a "Weekly Report" thread, to which Bumble and Ataro both said they liked the sound of, and they would bring it up. Ironically, I have seen no thread in the Trainer's Court about it, so I can only assume it's been brought up in the staff boards (which evidently brings us back to point 1).

Things that members are kept in the dark on are kept that way because of what I previously mentioned. Sure, I'd like to have TPW confirmed, but it's not like the Staff never mentioned moving. There was a bleeding thread in either the general section or the trainer's court (cba to remember which) about possible expansions months ago, and they even confirmed that they were asking around. Hell, I went and made accounts on all the major forums to scope them out, just in case. It's not like we never hear anything. Do some thread digging.

3. It's not just members that feel this way. I'll be pretty blunt - one thing you can't deny is that someone who has access to the mod boards is leaking information from it. They obviously think this information is not worthy of being kept private. Haze, an ex-mod, has also made points that he feels the staff boards are too private.

Whoever's leaking from the mod board may not be your friend, dude. That person may not have the URPG's best interests at heart either. It could go either way. It could be honest good intentions or heartless trolling. Too soon to say, so I think that point is a bit moot. As for Haze... well, if I say anything on the forums, I'm sure to be attacked, but I can explain that away pretty nicely if you care to IM or PM me.

For Staff Boards
1. Some discussions aren't suitable for members' eyes from the get-go. Some of the mods feel that, using the expansion as an example, posting information about it too early would've been detrimental to the actual result of an expansion, due to getting people's hopes up, the idea being shot down, etc... However, counter-arguments include that the URPG is mature enough to handle rejection.

I agree once again with the previous posters that the URPG isn't mature enough to handle rejection. I mean, you've seen what we do. I'm including myself here. All it takes is one semi snotty rejection note and everyone would be spamming all over the damned place. Aside from that, we have a very large population of trolls. I won't name names, but really think about every, single member, and tell me that you want ALL of them to have access to sensitive information.

2. It's impossible to please everyone. An implementation that one person loves, another person might hate. Not everyone can be kept happy by every decision.

I don't really understand what you're saying here. I mean, maybe somebody said something like this at some point, but it was probably primarily out of being a bit flustered by recent going ons. I don't think this is a real reason for not having a lot of Staff info public.

3. Stfu and listen to the mods. To anyone who is thinking of saying this, please refer to the size 5 bolded text at the top of this post.

Shut. Your. Goddamned. Mouth. This is just aggressive and counter productive. By saying this, you're just basically verbally jacking yourself off because you're implying you're ever so much more civil than the sodding staff, WITH YOUR EARL GREY TEA AND YOUR BLOODY CRUMPETS. In any case, you're really asking for it, and you're lucky that I respect the Staff and BMG management or I'd give you something to write home about, babe.

I'd also like to add a bit of an example of why Staff info is kept private. Think of your government. U.S., U.K., Ireland, Australia, wherever the hell you live. Now think of all the secrets your government has: technology, military knowledge, info on other countries. Would you really want your government to suddenly open a huge library and say, "HEY. EVERYTHING WE KNOW, YOU KNOW." Of course you wouldn't. I mean, obviously, Staff info being leaked wouldn't be so disastrous, but imagine what people could do with that info. Think of the psychopaths, and the serial killers, and the terrorists. Believe it or not, those kind of people are part of the URPG. I've met them. They can appear normal, but on the inside, they're ugly and twisted. Now, they couldn't really raise hell with info from a Pokemon game, but they could screw shit up for us very easily. So I'm done now. Feel free to respond in a civilized fashion, or, if my last comment about the tea and whatnot offended you, let me know so I can come back as the avatar of ST. I miss that guy posting. He really knew how to end a discussion. <3

[Haze]

Anyway, what I think time after time you fail to understand is that there really isn't much going on in the staff boards. I would really appreciate if you would stop attacking us with this issue, because I'm a mod, I know better, quit bitching. I know better because I know what the contents of the staff boards are and you do not. What you fail to see is the staff's point of view in this argument. You have repeatedly played the victim, while you fail to give any good reason why this is a "problem". If you would like to be taken more seriously, perhaps gather some kind of support among other members, then talk to us, instead of posting an inflammatory statement about how you assume we're going to pass this off as nonsense without reading it. We are certainly going to read it first before we realize its nonsense

EDIT: I would apologize for my slightly rude rhetoric, but this:


If all you are going to say is something along the lines of "I'm a mod, I know better, quit bitching", kindly gtfo.

Made it quite clear that you did not want an entirely civil discussion, and so, you shall not be granted one.

You just proved his statement true. He made a thread in Trainer's Court to bring up an issue, following protocol. What do you, a mod, do in response? Tell him that this is stupid and that you don't take him seriously.

@Alaska - Please, do enlighten us to your feelings about me. =3

Your post has no credibility because of the way you talk. You trash MK for how he's being aggressive, then a talk about how he's jerking himself off with the post. Hypocrisy?

[Alaskapigeon]

@Alaska - Please, do enlighten us to your feelings about me. =3

I didn't want to say this out in the open, because it's really a private matter, but... I guess if you really must know....

Haze, I love you. I've loved you since the beginning. I want you to bear my children, and I know you've been posting like you have because you feel the same way too. To find me, go to a hayfield in Maine and find a rock that has no earthly reason for being there. Underneath it, there is a clue to my whereabouts. Then take that clue to Zihuatanejo, Mexico, and you shall find me there waiting for you. I'll wait forever, baby. <3

EDIT: Also, I didn't post a thread making sure to talk about how I wanted this dicussion to be civil and peaceful and then purposely post something inflaming. I said I'd attempt civility and then degraded into assholery. I think this is just what we expect from me at this point. Eh.

[Xali]

Dear MK, I'm typically one of those that confronts the officials and mods about not doing anything.
However, I do realize they are busy and have plenty of things on there hands. It's taken me a while, but it's finally dawned on me that:

Anyway, what I think time after time you fail to understand is that there really isn't much going on in the staff boards.

Is actually a true statement. We non-officials must simply accept it as it is.
So I basically have just summed up my grievances with "URPG has problems, we must fix them, blah blah blah" and I expect very little to be done about it.

As someone that isn't a big fan of the current bureaucracy, I know where you are coming from. However, I think you're taking things a little too far, even for me.
Chains is right, the weekly update thread would probably be filled with "nothing going on atm, come back next week", so it's rather pointless.

I think what TE did was wrong. I also disagree with the way the officials handled the whole thing, by trying to cover up that it got leaked.
So here's how I see it. The first slap to the face for the common URPGers was the secrecy of " the expansion", to further widen that trust we had in you guys (The officials) you tried to deny there was a leak of said information. What you should've done was admit it, because obviously it still got out. This is common knowledge psychology you guys. It's better to admit one secret, than to try and cover it up with more secrets, which is what happened and and your whole story caved in and you eventually admitted to it. Your efforts were all in vain now that you look in retrospect correct? This wasn't rocket science. Next time, simply admit it. One slap in the face is enough, we don't need 50 million more. (Yeah yeah, exaggeration)

It's fine that the officials keep their pretty empty boards secret, but in the event certain things do pop up and can be discussed openly, then go for it.
Yes, I am aware that not all of those things need to be dished out, but seriously, use common sense at least. You should be able to tell what we can and can't handle.

Now back to you MK, you've got to realize that the officials actually have a point when they say not everyone can handle certain news. Not everyone will be pleased with regulations or amendments to the URPG. We've at least got to try and negotiate, we can't flat out accuse (Unless of course, we have rock solid proofs...which in this case TE provided)

All that being said, WE must ALL remember this is the freaking internet and the URPG is meant to be fun. Let's all lighten up some. What has happened can't be changed much, but for future reference we should look back upon this and not repeat our mistakes.

In closing, MK, weekly updates are truly pointless, although it would be nice to know about certain things (using common sense to decide whether or not we're mature enough to handle it, this goes for the staff) . Officials, don't try to hard to cover up what has been uncovered, it makes you look even worse. Remember, it's the internet, and its fairly difficult to hide stuff here. And finally, Alaska get out of Mexico you nub. Go find your love in a rock under the sea, next to a pineapple with a sponge and snail living in it

[SLCalamity]

Am I the only non-mod who doesn't really care that they 'lied' to us about expansion? It was really freaking obvious :> In addition, it was pretty obvious that there was going to be an announcement eventually. It's not like they would move without telling us eventually. BUT I SEE WHY YOU WANTED IT ANNOUNCED SO I'LL MOVE ON.

Maybe a monthly thread would be pretty cool, or even a generic thread with updates that gets posted in from time to time. Something that will keep us updated with what's happening so we won't have this problem in the future :O

Also, there's no point slamming the staff for banning TE. He was being unhelpful with this problem, and he still has a chance to be unbanned, so it's in his hands really. I'm sure that the ringleader behind this will be punished just as severely when he (OR SHE) is found out.

SO CHILL GUYS. THIS ENTIRE ISSUE IS BORING ME.