Proposal: Increase Gym Mon Limit

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    Angry about Outer Heavens ChainReaction01's Avatar
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    Default Proposal: Increase Gym Mon Limit

    Hooray, it's time for me to bitch about Gyms again xD

    Seriously though, this has been batted around in Staff for a bit, and overall we're pretty neutral so we're bringing it out into the community for you guys to have your say.

    Basically, the state of Gyms at the moment is that a Gym Leader can have up to 12 Pokemon on their roster. This proposal is quite simply a request to raise the limit to, say, fifteen. There's even been mention of simply removing the limit and allowing Gyms to use as many Pokemon of their type as they want (still obeying the Owned to Rent proportion rule that's in practice). That's a little too far out to be considered right now - I just want to get everyone's opinion on raising the limit to 15 (or some roughly equal higher number).

    I am for it because I would like to see Gyms made a bit harder, and the only way I can see to make them harder without something as drastic as a second WC is to increase the pool that Leaders can work with. It's true that Dragon might not be able to take much advantage of this increase, but every other type can field a unique roster of 15 Pokemon. It also seems a little unbalanced to me that Gym Leaders only have 12 Pokemon to work with where their challengers can have anywhere up to fifty or so, but then again GLs control the battle circumstances.

    Anyway, tl;dr, what do you guys think of upping Gym Pools to 15 Pokemon to make them that little bit harder?
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    Default Re: Proposal: Increase Gym Mon Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by ChainReaction01 View Post
    Hooray, it's time for me to bitch about Gyms again xD

    Seriously though, this has been batted around in Staff for a bit, and overall we're pretty neutral so we're bringing it out into the community for you guys to have your say.

    Basically, the state of Gyms at the moment is that a Gym Leader can have up to 12 Pokemon on their roster. This proposal is quite simply a request to raise the limit to, say, fifteen. There's even been mention of simply removing the limit and allowing Gyms to use as many Pokemon of their type as they want (still obeying the Owned to Rent proportion rule that's in practice). That's a little too far out to be considered right now - I just want to get everyone's opinion on raising the limit to 15 (or some roughly equal higher number).

    I am for it because I would like to see Gyms made a bit harder, and the only way I can see to make them harder without something as drastic as a second WC is to increase the pool that Leaders can work with. It's true that Dragon might not be able to take much advantage of this increase, but every other type can field a unique roster of 15 Pokemon. It also seems a little unbalanced to me that Gym Leaders only have 12 Pokemon to work with where their challengers can have anywhere up to fifty or so, but then again GLs control the battle circumstances.

    Anyway, tl;dr, what do you guys think of upping Gym Pools to 15 Pokemon to make them that little bit harder?
    These mons that are useful in rare situations are very helpful with moves like roar out there.

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    Default Re: Proposal: Increase Gym Mon Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    These mons that are useful in rare situations are very helpful with moves like roar out there.
    No one is saying you HAVE to stock your Gym with 15 mons, it's just an option to have. I don't see how adding this would make Gyms any worse - it's a choice that some of the Leaders may choose to utilise, especially some of the worse-off ones like Ground or Fighting or Ghost.
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    Default Re: Proposal: Increase Gym Mon Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by ChainReaction01 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    These mons that are useful in rare situations are very helpful with moves like roar out there.
    No one is saying you HAVE to stock your Gym with 15 mons, it's just an option to have. I don't see how adding this would make Gyms any worse - it's a choice that some of the Leaders may choose to utilise, especially some of the worse-off ones like Ground or Fighting or Ghost.
    Unfortunately, when it comes down to selecting a gym leader when there are multiple applicants, the applicants will most likely feel pressured to add pokemon to their lineup for a more, "complete", lineup in hopes they will be chosen.

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    Default Re: Proposal: Increase Gym Mon Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChainReaction01 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    These mons that are useful in rare situations are very helpful with moves like roar out there.
    No one is saying you HAVE to stock your Gym with 15 mons, it's just an option to have. I don't see how adding this would make Gyms any worse - it's a choice that some of the Leaders may choose to utilise, especially some of the worse-off ones like Ground or Fighting or Ghost.
    Unfortunately, when it comes down to selecting a gym leader when there are multiple applicants, the applicants will most likely feel pressured to add pokemon to their lineup for a more, "complete", lineup in hopes they will be chosen.
    That can be fixed. If this was to be implemented, we could say that "adding more Pokemon won't necessarily mean you will be chosen". Us League Organisers aren't complete tards.

    Besides, 15 isn't much more than 12 anyway. I'm willing to bet most Gyms don't use more than their usual eight or so. This is allowing niches, for those who want to have them. How is Leaders having more choice in how they defend their Gym a bad thing? If they add loads of crap and begin failing because the crap gets roared in / used wrong, kick them out. No problem.
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    Default Re: Proposal: Increase Gym Mon Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by ChainReaction01 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChainReaction01 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    These mons that are useful in rare situations are very helpful with moves like roar out there.
    No one is saying you HAVE to stock your Gym with 15 mons, it's just an option to have. I don't see how adding this would make Gyms any worse - it's a choice that some of the Leaders may choose to utilise, especially some of the worse-off ones like Ground or Fighting or Ghost.
    Unfortunately, when it comes down to selecting a gym leader when there are multiple applicants, the applicants will most likely feel pressured to add pokemon to their lineup for a more, "complete", lineup in hopes they will be chosen.
    That can be fixed. If this was to be implemented, we could say that "adding more Pokemon won't necessarily mean you will be chosen". Us League Organisers aren't complete tards.

    Besides, 15 isn't much more than 12 anyway. I'm willing to bet most Gyms don't use more than their usual eight or so. This is allowing niches, for those who want to have them. How is Leaders having more choice in how they defend their Gym a bad thing? If they add loads of crap and begin failing because the crap gets roared in / used wrong, kick them out. No problem.
    Just telling them that it won't influence our decision won't be enough for them. People don't work like that.

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    Default Re: Proposal: Increase Gym Mon Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChainReaction01 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChainReaction01 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    These mons that are useful in rare situations are very helpful with moves like roar out there.
    No one is saying you HAVE to stock your Gym with 15 mons, it's just an option to have. I don't see how adding this would make Gyms any worse - it's a choice that some of the Leaders may choose to utilise, especially some of the worse-off ones like Ground or Fighting or Ghost.
    Unfortunately, when it comes down to selecting a gym leader when there are multiple applicants, the applicants will most likely feel pressured to add pokemon to their lineup for a more, "complete", lineup in hopes they will be chosen.
    That can be fixed. If this was to be implemented, we could say that "adding more Pokemon won't necessarily mean you will be chosen". Us League Organisers aren't complete tards.

    Besides, 15 isn't much more than 12 anyway. I'm willing to bet most Gyms don't use more than their usual eight or so. This is allowing niches, for those who want to have them. How is Leaders having more choice in how they defend their Gym a bad thing? If they add loads of crap and begin failing because the crap gets roared in / used wrong, kick them out. No problem.
    Just telling them that it won't influence our decision won't be enough for them. People don't work like that.
    Then we won't choose em. If we warn people that un-necessarily stacking their lineups means they won't get chosen, and they do it anyway, and it goes to someone else / we don't choose anyone at all, they'll learn.

    I don't see how this is a really valid defense for not upping it anyway, you're basically saying we shouldn't because potential leaders might be idiots. What about the non-idiot leaders who currently have Gyms who would really like the option to add more to their line-up?
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    Default Re: Proposal: Increase Gym Mon Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by ChainReaction01 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChainReaction01 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChainReaction01 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    These mons that are useful in rare situations are very helpful with moves like roar out there.
    No one is saying you HAVE to stock your Gym with 15 mons, it's just an option to have. I don't see how adding this would make Gyms any worse - it's a choice that some of the Leaders may choose to utilise, especially some of the worse-off ones like Ground or Fighting or Ghost.
    Unfortunately, when it comes down to selecting a gym leader when there are multiple applicants, the applicants will most likely feel pressured to add pokemon to their lineup for a more, "complete", lineup in hopes they will be chosen.
    That can be fixed. If this was to be implemented, we could say that "adding more Pokemon won't necessarily mean you will be chosen". Us League Organisers aren't complete tards.

    Besides, 15 isn't much more than 12 anyway. I'm willing to bet most Gyms don't use more than their usual eight or so. This is allowing niches, for those who want to have them. How is Leaders having more choice in how they defend their Gym a bad thing? If they add loads of crap and begin failing because the crap gets roared in / used wrong, kick them out. No problem.
    Just telling them that it won't influence our decision won't be enough for them. People don't work like that.
    Then we won't choose em. If we warn people that un-necessarily stacking their lineups means they won't get chosen, and they do it anyway, and it goes to someone else / we don't choose anyone at all, they'll learn.

    I don't see how this is a really valid defense for not upping it anyway, you're basically saying we shouldn't because potential leaders might be idiots. What about the non-idiot leaders who currently have Gyms who would really like the option to add more to their line-up?
    So how are you utilizing your 12 mon lineup as is?

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    Angry about Outer Heavens ChainReaction01's Avatar
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    Default Re: Proposal: Increase Gym Mon Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    So how are you utilizing your 12 mon lineup as is?
    Me personally?

    Poliwrath for Swift Swim in the rain. Machamp for No Guard + Fissure. Blaziken for Speed Boost abuse. Breloom for Spore and Toxic Heal stalling. Hariyama for opening and phasing. Medicham for raw power. Infernape for the speed and diverse movepool. Lucario for the Flying-neutrality. Electivire for anti-flying. Gallade for statusing. Scrafty for Psychic-killing. Mienshao for backup speed and scouting.

    If I was able to add some more mons, I know I'd add Conkeldurr for sheer physical might + excellent revenge killing, and Hitmonlee to play around with Unburden (I really need the speed xD). I'd even consider a second Nape or Blaziken. Maybe even Hitmontop for Rapid Spin.

    I'll also point you to Winter, when she gets a chance to reply here. She definitely needs more space, for Torterra and Stunfisk in particular (Grass and Electric STAB respectively). There's probably other stuff too, like Hippowdon as a secondary Sandstorm inducer or something.

    I haven't talked to many other people directly about how their Gyms work (they're not surprisingly reluctant about the topic xD) but you still haven't answered my question: how does giving Gym Leaders the option to include more Pokemon make the Gyms worse in any way, barring potentially retarded applications (which would be ignored)?
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    Default Re: Proposal: Increase Gym Mon Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by ChainReaction01 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    So how are you utilizing your 12 mon lineup as is?
    Me personally?

    Poliwrath for Swift Swim in the rain. Machamp for No Guard + Fissure. Blaziken for Speed Boost abuse. Breloom for Spore and Toxic Heal stalling. Hariyama for opening and phasing. Medicham for raw power. Infernape for the speed and diverse movepool. Lucario for the Flying-neutrality. Electivire for anti-flying. Gallade for statusing. Scrafty for Psychic-killing. Mienshao for backup speed and scouting.

    If I was able to add some more mons, I know I'd add Conkeldurr for sheer physical might + excellent revenge killing, and Hitmonlee to play around with Unburden (I really need the speed xD). I'd even consider a second Nape or Blaziken. Maybe even Hitmontop for Rapid Spin.

    I'll also point you to Winter, when she gets a chance to reply here. She definitely needs more space, for Torterra and Stunfisk in particular (Grass and Electric STAB respectively). There's probably other stuff too, like Hippowdon as a secondary Sandstorm inducer or something.

    I haven't talked to many other people directly about how their Gyms work (they're not surprisingly reluctant about the topic xD) but you still haven't answered my question: how does giving Gym Leaders the option to include more Pokemon make the Gyms worse in any way, barring potentially retarded applications (which would be ignored)?
    Because why fix something that isn't broken?

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    Dewgongongongong FrozenChaos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Proposal: Increase Gym Mon Limit

    I think if this was implemented, someone applying should only be able to list 12, or whatever the current max is if I'm wrong, and after a while of showing skill (or lack thereof), THEN they could add more if they want. Perhaps.
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    Default Re: Proposal: Increase Gym Mon Limit

    Why don't we worry about something that is more of an issue?

    Like dragons being in water gyms or a lapras being in a dragon gym, while other gyms virtually have no wild card pokemon to put in their roster?


    Line up amount is fine. It's part of the gyms duty to be able to defend the gym with the pokemon they have selected. Giving them more options would just take away part of the challenge, same with wild cards.

    We have little to no competitive battling happening in URPG anymore, why do people keep trying to make it worse? xD


    Also, since we're on the topic of gyms. Remove wild cards

    That is all

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    Default Re: Proposal: Increase Gym Mon Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by LS the Door Mat View Post
    Why don't we worry about something that is more of an issue?

    Like dragons being in water gyms or a lapras being in a dragon gym, while other gyms virtually have no wild card pokemon to put in their roster?

    What is wrong with Kingdra in water gym ;)

    Line up amount is fine. It's part of the gyms duty to be able to defend the gym with the pokemon they have selected. Giving them more options would just take away part of the challenge, same with wild cards.

    We have little to no competitive battling happening in URPG anymore, why do people keep trying to make it worse? xD


    Also, since we're on the topic of gyms. Remove wild cards

    I agree with this.


    That is all

    Your friendly neighborhood Door Mat,

    LS
    I wouldn't mind being able to use 15 Pokemon, but doesn't really matter to me.
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  14. #14
    Dewgongongongong FrozenChaos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Proposal: Increase Gym Mon Limit

    I agree, I feel wild cards are a major handicap.
    I'm not inactive. I'm just hiding in the tall grass waiting for someone to trigger "A WILD FC APPEARED!."

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    Default Re: Proposal: Increase Gym Mon Limit

    I think 12 Pokemon is all you need. For a lot of gyms most of the Pokemon that aren't already in their gym are kind of crappy. I can only see this benefiting a few types and those types (like water and flying) don't really need help.
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