Preevolution Moves

Currently you can't get any moves for a Pokémon that its evolution gets by a simpler method (Murkrow TM Swagger when Honchkrow gets it leveling up, Happiny BM Metronome when Chansey gets it by TM). It also says that for split evolutions where some get it leveling up you can only give it that move if you evolve it into the other one. But what happens if I give my Ralts SM Wish, then trade it to someone who wants a Gardevoir? I suggest that we implement a system where you can give any move a Pokémon learns to it, regardless of how its evolution gets it, and if it evolves you either get the TM back in your bag or get a refund/switch to another daycare move (for BM/MT/SM).

Thoughts?

Some examples of these:

Riolu: SM Aura Sphere
Happiny: BM Metronome
Murkrow: TM Swagger, TM Dark Pulse
Ralts: TM Protect (to Gallade), SM Wish (to Gardevoir), MT Helping Hand (to Gallade)
Eevee: TM Sunny Day (to Leafeon), TM Swift (to Espeon)
Poliwag: TM Submission (to Poliwrath), TM Swagger (to Politoed), BM Mind Reader (to Poliwrath)
Slowpoke: TM Hidden Power (to Slowking), TM Swagger (to Slowking)
Totodile: SM Hydro Cannon
Cyndaquil: SM Blast Burn
Chikorita: SM Frenzy Plant

These are just some I happen to know/could easily find. There are likely others.

People should just pay attention to what they're buying. ^^

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Originally Posted by Roulette

People should just pay attention to what they're buying. ^^

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But what if you WANT that move? Should you just be unable to get it? Swagger could be useful for Murkrow with Psych Up, for instance.

I think a refund would be fair. You could post in the Mart and be like "evolved Murkrow w/ Swagger", and do some quick addition and get that approved. It seems to me like a small enough issue that doing something like that shouldn't be a big problem.

And COME ON Roulette, nobody pays attention to what they're buying. Half the time I buy TM ThunderBolt for things that already have it...

I dont see why this couldnt happen. When BW came out we were allowed to refund moves that became Level up, and although that was because of the release of a new game, the principle of refunding something that is ultimately unnecessary and can cause confusion is still there.

After I overcame the initial "Oh faaaaantastic, someone posted in the Trainer's Court!" reaction, I don't think this is such a bad idea. I don't actually give a damn about battling with pre-evo's but the change still makes sense for those that do.

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Originally Posted by Ash K.

Currently you can't get any moves for a Pokémon that its evolution gets by a simpler method (Murkrow TM Swagger when Honchkrow gets it leveling up, Happiny BM Metronome when Chansey gets it by TM).

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Why would you want to pay $6,500 for the TM when you can get the BM for $5,000?

I can agree with stuff like buying a TM then asking for a refund/switching it/whatever if the evolution gets it via level up, but not Pokemon learning moves they don't know (like Gardevoir and Wish, or Chikorita and Frenzy Plant). If someone wants a Gardevoir, then show a bit of common sense and don't trade for a Ralts that has Wish. :s Or, an easier solution, don't allow Ralts and Kirlia to get Wish and all the other mons this applies to. Because let's be honest here, are Ralts/Kirlia really going to be used, even with Eviolite?

Also, I don't see the point in the Ultra Dex saying, for example, that Chikorita can learn Frenzy Plant only to then say "(Meganium Only)". Only put it in the Meganium section, then.

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Originally Posted by PichuBoy

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Originally Posted by Ash K.

Currently you can't get any moves for a Pokémon that its evolution gets by a simpler method (Murkrow TM Swagger when Honchkrow gets it leveling up, Happiny BM Metronome when Chansey gets it by TM).

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Why would you want to pay $6,500 for the TM when you can get the BM for $5,000?

I can agree with stuff like buying a TM then asking for a refund/switching it/whatever if the evolution gets it via level up, but not Pokemon learning moves they don't know (like Gardevoir and Wish, or Chikorita and Frenzy Plant). If someone wants a Gardevoir, then show a bit of common sense and don't trade for a Ralts that has Wish. :s Or, an easier solution, don't allow Ralts and Kirlia to get Wish and all the other mons this applies to. Because let's be honest here, are Ralts/Kirlia really going to be used, even with Eviolite?

Also, I don't see the point in the Ultra Dex saying, for example, that Chikorita can learn Frenzy Plant only to then say "(Meganium Only)". Only put it in the Meganium section, then.

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The current rules of URPG don't allow you to give a BM to something that learns it as a TM, even if the BM is cheaper (NOT SAYING THIS NEEDS TO BE CHANGED, THAT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ISSUE).

Ralts is allowed to get Wish as an SM because Gallade doesn't get Wish any other way and there was a Ralts somewhere that came with Wish. Chikorita got Frenzy Plant as an SM in XD: Gale of Darkness, while Meganium learns it as an MT (which imo should be allowed to be given anyway because either way it's a daycare move).

As for the Ultra Dex, at least it's better than when they ONLY had daycare moves under the unevolved, and it makes sense if you're planning for the future, especially debating between split evos.

And also, I forgot to mention it earlier, but there would probably need to be something slightly different in place for Nincada to prevent abuse.

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Originally Posted by Ash K.

The current rules of URPG don't allow you to give a BM to something that learns it as a TM, even if the BM is cheaper (NOT SAYING THIS NEEDS TO BE CHANGED, THAT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ISSUE).

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I am 99.9% certain that is not, and has never been the case. Why? Because I've seen people ask before "Oh, I could've got this BM cheaper as a TM, can I change it?" and be told "Yeah, sure". Not "We're going to force you to do this". Same goes for the reverse.

If Chikorita, Totodile and Cyndaquil get their SMs anyway, then I don't see how this has anything to do with the issue you brought up, because as far as URPG is concerned, BMs/MTs/SMs are the same thing. Complaining that Chikorita can't get Frenzy Plant specifically as an SM is just petty because, again, when are you actually going to competitively use Chikorita or Bayleef in a battle?

If you're debating split evos, here's a thought: don't get any moves until you're certain. Wait until you've evolved it and can't change your mind anyway. Failing that, you could always (shock, horror!) get one of each.

If there was a Ralts specifically that came with SM Wish, why can't Gardevoir get it?

The URPG already pushes it by allowing illegal combos of moves. Anyways, Eviolite aside, practically no pre-evos have viable competitive longevity, so unless you're speficially planning for a mon to use Eviolite, I don't get why you can't just evolve it, and THEN pick the moves. No-one's forcing you to battle with an un-TM'd mon, so it's not like if you evolve it, you'll have to battle before you can TM it.

As for the Nincada problem, if it doesn't learn the move at all, then the TM should be lost and it's the owner's fault for being careless. Otherwise, it should be treated exactly the same.

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Originally Posted by PichuBoy

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Originally Posted by Ash K.

The current rules of URPG don't allow you to give a BM to something that learns it as a TM, even if the BM is cheaper (NOT SAYING THIS NEEDS TO BE CHANGED, THAT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ISSUE).

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I am 99.9% certain that is not, and has never been the case. Why? Because I've seen people ask before "Oh, I could've got this BM cheaper as a TM, can I change it?" and be told "Yeah, sure". Not "We're going to force you to do this". Same goes for the reverse.

If Chikorita, Totodile and Cyndaquil get their SMs anyway, then I don't see how this has anything to do with the issue you brought up, because as far as URPG is concerned, BMs/MTs/SMs are the same thing. Complaining that Chikorita can't get Frenzy Plant specifically as an SM is just petty because, again, when are you actually going to competitively use Chikorita or Bayleef in a battle?

If you're debating split evos, here's a thought: don't get any moves until you're certain. Wait until you've evolved it and can't change your mind anyway. Failing that, you could always (shock, horror!) get one of each.

If there was a Ralts specifically that came with SM Wish, why can't Gardevoir get it?

The URPG already pushes it by allowing illegal combos of moves. Anyways, Eviolite aside, practically no pre-evos have viable competitive longevity, so unless you're speficially planning for a mon to use Eviolite, I don't get why you can't just evolve it, and THEN pick the moves. No-one's forcing you to battle with an un-TM'd mon, so it's not like if you evolve it, you'll have to battle before you can TM it.

As for the Nincada problem, if it doesn't learn the move at all, then the TM should be lost and it's the owner's fault for being careless. Otherwise, it should be treated exactly the same.

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"To find out what BMs, MTs, and SMs a Pokemon can learn, it is recommended you check The Ultra Dex. What way a Pokemon learns a move is prioritized in this order, from highest to lowest: Level Up, TMs/HMs, BMs, MTs, and SMs. This means if a Pokemon learns a move through a higher priority method in any generation, it cannot learn it through a lower priority method. For example, since Abra learns Fire Punch as a TM, it can't acquire Fire Punch as a BM through the Daycare Center. There may be some errors in the Ultra Dex regarding this, so it is best to double check, and report any errors to URPG staff." (Quoted from the Daycare Thread.)

I think this is what Ash was referring to.

Also MK, no offense, but it just seems like you're being unnecessarily harsh. You even quoted example when the URPG was laid back and just had a "Yea, sure" attitude, so why would there suddenly be a strict rule about this? People make mistakes, whether it be when you change your move in a battle, fix a story before it's graded, delete a purchase before it's approved, etc. The URPG can tolerate people being imperfect and I think this is just an extension of that.

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Originally Posted by Krummhorn

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Originally Posted by PichuBoy

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Originally Posted by Ash K.

The current rules of URPG don't allow you to give a BM to something that learns it as a TM, even if the BM is cheaper (NOT SAYING THIS NEEDS TO BE CHANGED, THAT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ISSUE).

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I am 99.9% certain that is not, and has never been the case. Why? Because I've seen people ask before "Oh, I could've got this BM cheaper as a TM, can I change it?" and be told "Yeah, sure". Not "We're going to force you to do this". Same goes for the reverse.

If Chikorita, Totodile and Cyndaquil get their SMs anyway, then I don't see how this has anything to do with the issue you brought up, because as far as URPG is concerned, BMs/MTs/SMs are the same thing. Complaining that Chikorita can't get Frenzy Plant specifically as an SM is just petty because, again, when are you actually going to competitively use Chikorita or Bayleef in a battle?

If you're debating split evos, here's a thought: don't get any moves until you're certain. Wait until you've evolved it and can't change your mind anyway. Failing that, you could always (shock, horror!) get one of each.

If there was a Ralts specifically that came with SM Wish, why can't Gardevoir get it?

The URPG already pushes it by allowing illegal combos of moves. Anyways, Eviolite aside, practically no pre-evos have viable competitive longevity, so unless you're speficially planning for a mon to use Eviolite, I don't get why you can't just evolve it, and THEN pick the moves. No-one's forcing you to battle with an un-TM'd mon, so it's not like if you evolve it, you'll have to battle before you can TM it.

As for the Nincada problem, if it doesn't learn the move at all, then the TM should be lost and it's the owner's fault for being careless. Otherwise, it should be treated exactly the same.

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"To find out what BMs, MTs, and SMs a Pokemon can learn, it is recommended you check The Ultra Dex. What way a Pokemon learns a move is prioritized in this order, from highest to lowest: Level Up, TMs/HMs, BMs, MTs, and SMs. This means if a Pokemon learns a move through a higher priority method in any generation, it cannot learn it through a lower priority method. For example, since Abra learns Fire Punch as a TM, it can't acquire Fire Punch as a BM through the Daycare Center. There may be some errors in the Ultra Dex regarding this, so it is best to double check, and report any errors to URPG staff." (Quoted from the Daycare Thread.)

I think this is what Ash was referring to.

Also MK, no offense, but it just seems like you're being unnecessarily harsh. You even quoted example when the URPG was laid back and just had a "Yea, sure" attitude, so why would there suddenly be a strict rule about this? People make mistakes, whether it be when you change your move in a battle, fix a story before it's graded, delete a purchase before it's approved, etc. The URPG can tolerate people being imperfect and I think this is just an extension of that.

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The Daycare Thread also says you must wait 24 hours to receive Daycare moves. It's a locked, outdated thread. The current rules should be in a new sticky, or in the PokeMart thread.

Anyway, check my first post. I said I agree there should be a system to let you trade-in TMs you no longer need (such as Swagger on Honchkrow). However, I DON'T agree that you should be allowed to teach Pokemon moves they cannot learn (such as Wish on Gardevoir). Ash is saying how it's unfair to people who're still deciding, but nothing is forcing you to put moves on your Pokemon as soon as you get them. Wait until you evolve it before putting moves on it, and if it's a perma-basic, then the evolution is irrelevant.

But anyway, because whenever I have a different view, if ends up as MK against the world:

"Oh yes, Ash, this is a great idea! I'm all on board for everything you've posted. :)."

Eh, I see what you mean Ash K. I'd say do it.

Why is everyone so fired up about such a small topic?

I have solved this thread. Offer a refund or allow the person to give the TM to another pokemon (as it is already done anyway -.-). This was posted because Ash K. clearly did not want to buy TM Swagger for his Murkrow.

There. Thread solved. Everybody leave.

EDIT: Some final business.

1. MK's comment about buying BM's over more expensive TMs:

Whoever said "Yeah sure" is wrong. If its available by TM and BM, you're required to buy the TM.


2. MK's comment about the deletion of the Daycare Thread:

That is being left there to avoid confusion by people who are used to the old system. It will be removed eventually. Imo, sooner rather than later.