Thread: Keeping the Keldeo Tournament double pay scheme?

How about a set weekend where the money gets doubled.

I think many of yous have the wrong idea about my point, it was a way to maintain the activity that keldeo brought, not give newbies a better start etc.

What makes you think URPG Won't drop back into the slump it was in before If we continue under the same conditions?

What are we going to do when/if it happens again?

And the argument about URPG economy is silly, all doubling battle payments will do is put a little more cha-ching in peoples banks. which isn't a problem, the mart won't run out of pokemon/TMs/Items.

also

Originally Posted by Monbrey

Despite everything I've just said, I'm not totally against this idea. What I would suggest is maintaining increased payouts for specific areas where we want to increase battling activity. Given that 6v6's pay a standard of $2,000/$1,000 anyway, I'd be in favour of increasing all Gym battles to a higher payout bracket, so they stand out and become the more highly contested battles that they used to be. Dojo's too, thus allowing the new players access to the increased income.

I can't remember, but don't gyms already pay more than standard amounts?

Originally Posted by Monbrey

Originally Posted by Airik

Ok your not going to like this but a pokemon doubles tournament

Good luck finding anyone willing to ref doubles.

Hi.

I think the reason we've actually got battles done now is because there have been more passed ref tests. Before, there were barely any tests, because the testers were either offline when you were online, and on the rare occasion you caught them online, it was stupid o'clock either for them or for you. That, or they just couldn't be bothered :3 Because of this, the refs that have developed a "cba to ref anymore" attitude have been replaced with more eager refs. although, y'know, the double pay probably helped

While I wouldn't be fully happy with the pay being doubled permanently, I do think that maybe we could have it as an annual (MAYBE semi-annual) thing - 2 weeks during the holidays where all pay (possibly barring basics) is doubled. It doesn't have to be a tournament, just something where the event is announced in advance, then set into motion, then officially closed.

Originally Posted by Fawkes.

And the argument about URPG economy is silly, all doubling battle payments will do is put a little more cha-ching in peoples banks. which isn't a problem, the mart won't run out of pokemon/TMs/Items.

Well, no, that's not the point. If anything, the mart not running out would be one of the contributing factors as to WHY the economy would unstabilise.

Think about it - if I suddenly found a legal way to create genuine money, and created billions of pounds a second, what's that going to do? It's going to reduce the worth of everything because money is a more common thing. Something that costs £100 now, if I doubled the current amount of money in the economy, would effectively cost £50. The only practical solution to avoid inflation is to change the Mart prices, which effectively makes the pay doubling redundant.

More money means more powerful mons being bought. Fully-TM'd Blazikens and Dragonites suddenly become worthless because every URPG member and their dog has one (an extreme case, yeah, but just emphasising the point). It disrupts the trading aspect of URPG.

Originally Posted by Fawkes.

Originally Posted by Monbrey

Despite everything I've just said, I'm not totally against this idea. What I would suggest is maintaining increased payouts for specific areas where we want to increase battling activity. Given that 6v6's pay a standard of $2,000/$1,000 anyway, I'd be in favour of increasing all Gym battles to a higher payout bracket, so they stand out and become the more highly contested battles that they used to be. Dojo's too, thus allowing the new players access to the increased income.

I can't remember, but don't gyms already pay more than standard amounts?

They pay $2000/$1000 regardless of the battle size, equal to that of a standard 6v6.

Originally Posted by Central African Republic*

I do think that maybe we could have it as an annual (MAYBE semi-annual) thing - 2 weeks during the holidays where all pay (possibly barring basics) is doubled. It doesn't have to be a tournament, just something where the event is announced in advance, then set into motion, then officially closed.

This I'd be fine with too I guess. The simple fact is that tournaments of any sort will generally have some sort of higher payout scheme implemented. The advantage of the one I just ran was that it was bracketless, enabling people to battle as often as they could to earn the extra cash. That won't be happening all the time, but if we're going to look at running more SUCCESSFUL tournaments, bracketless seems to be a good option.

I'm just going to state right now that a permanent doubling of battle payouts isn't going to happen. If you have ideas for events or anything else where doubling would be appropriate, I'll consider it.

Originally Posted by Central African Republic*

Well, no, that's not the point. If anything, the mart not running out would be one of the contributing factors as to WHY the economy would unstabilise.
Think about it - if I suddenly found a legal way to create genuine money, and created billions of pounds a second, what's that going to do? It's going to reduce the worth of everything because money is a more common thing. Something that costs £100 now, if I doubled the current amount of money in the economy, would effectively cost £50. The only practical solution to avoid inflation is to change the Mart prices, which effectively makes the pay doubling redundant.

Hey while we're relating URPG money to Real life money, lets also decrease the value of urpg money, for every member to join! since every new member adds more money to this "economy".

Seriously we shouldn't relate URPG money to Real Life money. We have an unlimited amount of URPG money.

Originally Posted by Fawkes.

Seriously we shouldn't relate URPG money to Real Life money. We have an unlimited amount of URPG money.

And if you give everyone in a game of Monopoly 10 extra $500 notes the game doesn't play the way it's meant to. I know its fake money, but the system is based on and runs under the same principles as a real life economy.

>unlimited
>needs to be doubled

I think it would just make more sense to set a static price for all battles. None of this tier sillyness, since almost everyone does 3v3/4v4 as it is. I rarely see anyone doing 6v6 unless it's in a gym battle or people personally enjoy 6v6 more. It's more work for the ref, yes, but you can just pay out more to refs for 6v6's.

Our biggest issue is finding refs, not the payouts for battling. I couldn't even tell you how much of an issue it is to find a ref, at ANY time of day. I know I've had to hold out on gym battles quite a few times due to lack of refs. It isn't even that there is a lack of refs, since I could name at least 10 people on AIM right now that can ref. Will they? Probably not.

If my opinion matters in the slightest, I think our issue lies in incentives, not exactly the low payouts for battling. Why not host more tournaments? Make things more newbie-friendly, maybe? I have a few ideas I could bounce off Monbreys head sometime when he's available, or whoever is in charge now. For all I know it's some giant yellow and orange monkey named Steve that shits candy.

Originally Posted by Monbrey

Originally Posted by Fawkes.

Seriously we shouldn't relate URPG money to Real Life money. We have an unlimited amount of URPG money.

And if you give everyone in a game of Monopoly 10 extra $500 notes the game doesn't play the way it's meant to. I know its fake money, but the system is based on and runs under the same principles as a real life economy.

>unlimited
>needs to be doubled

Reducing the amount of battles needed to buy a TM from 4 to 2 isn't the same as giving someone £5000 in a game where £450 is the highest material value.

This is just a suggestion to maintain the same level activity Keldeo brought. Going back to the same conditions we were in before will only result in the same outcome as before, an activity slump.

if not this idea, then yeah, pick another less extreme one, thats cool. But please come up with a more permanent solution other than tourneys being held more often.

Personally I don't see an issue that really needs to be fixed anymore. Activity has increased. If it drops off again it drops off again. I think a lot of the people that came back will likely stay for a while because they enjoy URPG. That is why they came back after all. Eventually some people will go in active again, but few stay away forever. URPG kind of has this magnetic pull and after a while away you want to come back.

Asside from that, I notice new starter requests here on BMG almost daily. Even if only say one in ten actually stay and do things, that is still about three people a month if you assume a thirty day month and one new person daily like it seems to have been. So any oldies we lose we likely gain in newbies. Not to mention many of us can and have introduced new people to URPG as well. There are four members of URPG here because I introduced them to it. Two of which joined during the BMG expansion like I did and two joined during the slump. Beyond that one of them also introduced a friend. Including myself there is six active members already. Toss in all the refs, graders, rangers, judges, staff member, and plain old other player that are around and we have a decent sized active community that isn't going anywhere.

The FFA had nearly fifty participants. I think there was close to thirty taking part in the lotteries. And that was with only have a few hours to sign up for them. There are more active people here and most other forum based RPs have. We aren't going to die. Everything is going to be okay. You can stop panicking now.

Now, on to something helpful. Seasonal tournaments with a theme based on the season. For example maybe some sort of ice themed winter tournament. They could even work something like the Keldeo tournament where in the winner earns a Legend for a short amount of time that fits the season. Kyurem would make a good winter prize for example, or even Regice. Perhaps even do two tournaments. A bracket style one that has perhaps a cash and/or TM prize and a point tournament like the Keldeo one with Pokemon as the prize. Something like first place gets legend and complex, second place gets hard, third place gets medium. For the cash/TM bracket one something like first place gets 10k and four TMs, second place gets 8k and two TMs, and third place gets 5k and one TM.

This is a good idea if you're interested in undermining the work everyone put before it.

Ok, I give up, dumb idea

Originally Posted by Fawkes.

Ok, I give up, dumb idea

Whether the idea is ultimately rejected or not, people should not hesitate to make suggestions. *pats fawkes on head*

Originally Posted by Fawkes.

Ok, I give up, dumb idea

I honestly didn't think it was a dumb idea. I tell people when their ideas are dumb. But making it permanent totally removes it's usability as a rewards payment scheme. I'm happy to keep it around and use it more often on events/tournaments/whatever, because it's a really good way to FOCUS the activity. If it becomes a standard people will stop battling once they have all their TM's anyway, which will take half the time.

Heh, good thoughts all around.

I certainly agree that while a double reward system might improve things in the short run, it's not likely to change things much in the long term. It'll simply set a new norm in terms of wealth. That being said, I do have to wonder if that might not necessarily be a bad thing. The system was built when there were only 150 Pokemon and a lot fewer TM's and items to purchase. Then again, such a change would require us to modify a lot of the economy pay-scales we already have in place and I don't think that's such a great idea given how Black & White 2 will be released soon. Not to mention such a change would be hard to balance.

Speaking of BW2, I believe the release will likely draw a lot of activity to the URPG. We know that we're all Pokemon fans and most of us will likely purchase the game. That passion will ultimately transfer over to our small community here. Additionally, the game's release will likely draw an influx of new members to the forums which host us (mainly BMG) and that gives us the opportunity to recruit new members. Ultimately, I feel activity will pick up. It's not like activity is down at any rate. I've been tracking the numbers and we're doing pretty much the same we always have, and strangely enough, always seem to sit at 6 percent of forum activity (for all forums).

I approve of increased rewards and prizes for fun activities such as tournaments and encourage members to pitch and/or host them. Events are always fun and bring people together in entertaining ways. I think the real fun of Keldeo, as opposed to standard tournaments, is that anyone could participate even if they weren't going to win. There was no elimination and no limit to the number of battles. As such, people took the time to compete with each other. Such a simple system with few restrictions is a good model for success.

Originally Posted by HKim

I approve of increased rewards and prizes for fun activities such as tournaments and encourage members to pitch and/or host them. Events are always fun and bring people together in entertaining ways. I think the real fun of Keldeo, as opposed to standard tournaments, is that anyone could participate even if they weren't going to win. There was no elimination and no limit to the number of battles. As such, people took the time to compete with each other. Such a simple system with few restrictions is a good model for success.

This is exactly what I hoped to achieve out of running the bracketless system, and it was great to see everyone getting involved. There were something like 267 battles in total between over 50 people, which just goes to show how many active URPGers there are at the moment.