An Honest Question
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  1. #1

    Default An Honest Question

    Hi friends!

    It's definitely a magical time as we approach the eve of the URPG's 15th anniversary. I'll have been in this crazy, wonderful dreamscape with all you lovelies for officially two years in just a month, and I thought there was no better time than now to ask this question.

    What do I do in the URPG if I don't like battling?

    The answer seems obvious: write stories, enter park runs, draw portraits, join contests! But all of these rewards from these activities, Pokemon, money, and items, ultimately all goes towards a system geared towards battling.

    I accumulate wealth and Pokemon from what I do participate in. The system for battling that it's designed for, the amount of hard work for the specific Pokemon or item, is just perfect! But I end up donating most of my stuff through the Gift Stations just because I don't like battling and I want others to enjoy the system for what it currently is. That has always been my choice and has ALWAYS been a joy, but I begin to wonder if I've reached my URPG end-game.

    I'm not saying there's a flaw in the system. I'm thinking that there's an entirely different system that could run in conjunction with the one we have now, one whose extrinsic incentives don't go towards battling. A system that capitalizes on the specific talent that the URPGer brings to the game.

    Think about: the extrinsic motivation for winning the SWC/WWC, the pinnacle of achievement for URPG writers in the competition that most closely parallels battling's Champion Battle, is a Legendary Pokemon meant for battle. I think it's absolutely wonderful! It's the result of fifteen years of tradition and is the greatest honor. I just think that it doesn't inherently capture the nature of the victory or propel the writer forward, internally, towards writing itself.

    What new system am I talking about, one whose rewards don't go straight to battling? I'd feel terrible leaving without a possible solution, so here's part two!

    It centers around this: URPG's outward expansions have always inspired me. I wonder what incredible things would occur if we expanded inward together, uniting the Art, Story, and RP sections.

    Imagine a separate section where you propose a plot-line for a story. Another author comes in, and two artists decide to join in to illustrate the story at intervals involving the Pokemon. A team of curator and grader unite, using their specific skills to not only award or decline the team based on the awesome standards we have now, but also on how cohesive the final product was considering such different talents. Everyone benefits; perhaps the author who proposed the storyline excels at making storylines but the author he works alongside is a master at description. Maybe the artist had no muse until that moment and decided to step up to the challenge. This isn't even counting the actual rewards yet.

    Imagine that for just a moment, the concrete role of Zorayda or a certain 80-year-old-beloved-Grandma as ranger are dropped for just a moment. And in that place, ranger and trainer work together to create new characters that they made together for a specific plot that they put together themselves. Or imagine that they mirror what's being written and illustrated in the above-mentioned project. It's complicated, but I think it'd potentially be more rewarding / exciting / engaging /challenging for everyone involved.

    Envision a system where you pay an artist to commission a piece of artwork for your story. A system where elder rangers are paid to mentor voluntary new rangers in the park. A system where the creator of that plot-line mentioned above gets paid additionally for having the original idea, and everyone else does too for teamwork. A system where you accumulate currency for a craft's domain based on how much you specifically put towards that craft.

    And this system flows alongside the system we have now - double the rewards, the same amount of effort?! It just makes me wonder how many more artists, authors, and RPers would come to URPG specifically for that craft, and not just the battling. It makes me wonder if they'd stay, with a new way to measure their achievement without Pokemon or items. It makes me think that battling would increase dramatically too - more Pokemon being acquired, more battles, more growth. The convergence of talents and ambitions in a community whose members already care so much for each other would lead us on an even sweeter path. I think we could walk that path together.

    TLDR;;

    1. I have all this money and all of these mons, but I dislike battling! What do I do now? Is this my URPG end-game?
    2. consideration of opportunities to unite the Story, Art, and RP Boards to make URPG a more interconnected game

    I was going to write this on PWN but I'm not sure how the community would respond to my Deadpool gif

    Last edited by Smiles; 14th May 2014 at 12:42 AM.
    URPG

  2. #2

    Default Re: An Honest Question

    I completely agree.
    I've been meaning to post similar since, uh, almost a year ago. The URPG game content does seem at odds with itself with having competitive battling at the core and inviting creative players with the other sections, and I'd proposed solutions in adding cooperative battling and light RP content in Boss Fights and expanded Dungeons, with a future possibility of inward expansion to link up related sections.
    Unfortunately extensive real-life difficulties have prevented me from working on these, as well as testing out Boss Fights with the PXR Opening and 15th Anniversary events.

    I like the idea of cooperative creativity projects, but it would likely need some kind of (figuratively?) material reward to keep players invested - there's apparently a poor track-record for sections without these. It could be a good way to open up avenues of themed content, based on the combined projects. Park sections with creatively altered rules, Write-a-Roll-esque prompt writing and drawing events, cooperative battling content and more.

  3. #3

    Default Re: An Honest Question

    I agree with these, just a few things I'd like to say:

    The 15th anniversary was actually January 11, 2014.

    PWN could never complain about anything you did, except for resigning as Admin.

    Contests totally make use of all that stuff too, like battles. Except proper contests aren't battles.
    URPG Official, Senior Referee, Chief Judge, Elite Four Member, Johto LO, Mistralton City Gym Leader, Celestic Town Division Head, Kumquat Island Gym Leader
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    "When you can have anything you want by uttering a few words, the goal matters not, only the journey to it." -Rhunön the Elf (Eldest: Inheritance Book 2)
    "You might think it’s to help you be a better battler. Really it’s just to make your battles less painful for the poor referee that has to face-palm every turn." - Monbrey

  4. #4

    Default Re: An Honest Question

    I'm sorry, I just don't really get this. Pokemon is a battling video game. That's what Gamefreak made it to be. I don't really understand what you're looking for. I don't quite see the connection between creating a book and having the URPG be more fun. I think the kind of thing Blue was working on is more of a step in the right direction, but I don't think that "creating alternatives to battling" is really anything that can be accomplished within the confides of this game.

    If you think about it, URPG is unique in the way it associates rewards with things that people are already doing. Fanfiction, RolePlaying, Artwork these are all facets of Pokemon fanbase that people are creatively involved with already. These are the outlets people use to enjoy Pokemon without battling, taking advantage of the creatures and imagination of the world, rather than the actual games.

    However, there's something that I think you are missing out on here. There's a lot of room for creativity in battling. Whether you try different types of battles : Double, Triple, Rotation, Sky, Gameboy, whatever. The battles don't have to be super competitive, they can be fun. In my opinion, this is what FFAs were initially set out to be: fun outlets of battling that weren't meant to be super competitive, or at least significantly less so than a typical battle. Unfortunately, it seems as though people have realized how much of a cash-cow they are and started just doing any means necessary to win. In my opinion, that competitiveness is really what is running the URPG dry.

    Another thing you could try is doing a regular battle, but without such typical pokemon. How about instead of battling with Blaziken/Greninja/Dragonite you try actually using different Pokemon and different stratgies and being creative? And I don't mean doing something like: Blaziken/Greninja/Linoone. Actually use 3 Pokemon that no one has ever considered before. There are so many facets of the URPG metagame that have gone untapped. This is what I've started doing recently and honestly it's improved my URPG experience 100%. Who cares if you win the battle? Just battle a lot and you'll make up for it anyway.

    This is probably not the answer you're looking for, but I think it's an answer to a lot of URPGers who are struggling with the cut-and-dry nature of the game right now

  5. #5

    Default Re: An Honest Question

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueTowel View Post
    I completely agree.
    I've been meaning to post similar since, uh, almost a year ago. The URPG game content does seem at odds with itself with having competitive battling at the core and inviting creative players with the other sections, and I'd proposed solutions in adding cooperative battling and light RP content in Boss Fights and expanded Dungeons, with a future possibility of inward expansion to link up related sections.

    I'd love to get involved with the dungeon system and help out in any way that I can!

    Unfortunately extensive real-life difficulties have prevented me from working on these, as well as testing out Boss Fights with the PXR Opening and 15th Anniversary events.

    I like the idea of cooperative creativity projects, but it would likely need some kind of (figuratively?) material reward to keep players invested - there's apparently a poor track-record for sections without these. It could be a good way to open up avenues of themed content, based on the combined projects. Park sections with creatively altered rules, Write-a-Roll-esque prompt writing and drawing events, cooperative battling content and more.

    I definitely agree with you on themed projects! The awesome WaR Story event Hannah created definitely inspired this greater overall idea in some way. There's just something special that happens when a team gets together to work on an unfamiliar challenge provided by something provocative like WaR. With the multiple dimensions of the URPG's different sections, just about anything is possible. I've been making mental circles figuring out what kind of reward we would have in place simply because that whole system just isn't in place right now, and that's ok. What do players receive if it's not money, Pokemon, or items? I'm thinking along the lines of a different kind of currency for a different system that runs alongside the one we have now, and it's going to be fun to define it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash K. View Post
    I agree with these, just a few things I'd like to say:

    The 15th anniversary was actually January 11, 2014.

    AHHHHHH happy belated birthday URPG! I love you and everyone in it <333

    PWN could never complain about anything you did, except for resigning as Admin.

    Actual tears. Thank you for the support, Ash!

    Contests totally make use of all that stuff too, like battles. Except proper contests aren't battles.

    I really wanted to include contests in some way, but I heard they were all like battles, and actually wanted to wait for you to say something hehehe you saved the day again Ash!
    Quote Originally Posted by Elamite View Post
    I'm sorry, I just don't really get this. Pokemon is a battling video game. That's what Gamefreak made it to be.

    Ah, I fundamentally disagree here. To me, Pokemon Red and Blue is simply not Pokemon without Team Rocket, the mom of the main player, Professor Oak and his grandson, the incredible mythos behind the Pokemon themselves. I always imagined that if Gamefreak intended Pokemon to be a battling video game, we would have a tournament-style game from the start without any of the RPG elements that have become as nostalgic to the games as battles themselves.

    I don't really understand what you're looking for. I don't quite see the connection between creating a book and having the URPG be more fun.

    Haha, we have fundamentally differing ways of seeing things and that's awesome! Creating books / writing things and connecting and cooperating with other people is my whole idea of fun.

    I'm looking for a secondary system of achievement that rewards the writers, artists, RPers, and contestants in the same way the whole system of URPG awards only the battlers. This is a system that would run in conjunction with the system we have now because that's perfect itself! But it would supplement creative works with the intention to encourage even more works, on both an individual and group level.


    I think the kind of thing Blue was working on is more of a step in the right direction, but I don't think that "creating alternatives to battling" is really anything that can be accomplished within the confides of this game.

    Ah - I apologize if I wasn't being clear! I am not trying to create alternatives to battling. I'm proposing that we supplement the system we have now in ways that encourage more growth within that system. Complimenting the cooperative nature of the URPG while encouraging solo projects too.

    If you think about it, URPG is unique in the way it associates rewards with things that people are already doing. Fanfiction, RolePlaying, Artwork these are all facets of Pokemon fanbase that people are creatively involved with already. These are the outlets people use to enjoy Pokemon without battling, taking advantage of the creatures and imagination of the world, rather than the actual games.

    Another fundamentally different way of seeing - I am seeing URPG as a system where Battling, Story-Writing, Role-Playing, Creating Art, and participating in Contests could all be independent factions that simultaneously connect to each other. Right now, everything connects back to Battling - you catch a Pokemon in stories for use in battle which is awesome, but I'm wondering if there's also something else you can win besides the Pokemon, by just writing a story. I enjoy Pokemon without battling but all the rewards I get for it are rewards that go to battling. I'm envisioning a system where the other sections can connect to each other and people get the rewards they have now in addition to rewards that compliment what they're interested in. I absolutely agree that URPG is a unique system! I think we can just make it a slightly more friendly system for people who want to participate in the sections that aren't as heavily capitalized upon as battling is.

    However, there's something that I think you are missing out on here. There's a lot of room for creativity in battling. Whether you try different types of battles : Double, Triple, Rotation, Sky, Gameboy, whatever. The battles don't have to be super competitive, they can be fun. In my opinion, this is what FFAs were initially set out to be: fun outlets of battling that weren't meant to be super competitive, or at least significantly less so than a typical battle. Unfortunately, it seems as though people have realized how much of a cash-cow they are and started just doing any means necessary to win. In my opinion, that competitiveness is really what is running the URPG dry.

    Another thing you could try is doing a regular battle, but without such typical pokemon. How about instead of battling with Blaziken/Greninja/Dragonite you try actually using different Pokemon and different stratgies and being creative? And I don't mean doing something like: Blaziken/Greninja/Linoone. Actually use 3 Pokemon that no one has ever considered before. There are so many facets of the URPG metagame that have gone untapped. This is what I've started doing recently and honestly it's improved my URPG experience 100%. Who cares if you win the battle? Just battle a lot and you'll make up for it anyway.

    I think you're absolutely right and that you're picking up on a strong issue! But from my perspective (relevant to this thread) what you're suggesting is akin to telling somebody who doesn't like fishing to just try a new line or a different kind of bait. I have never been a fisher - I think that trying new ways of doing things is very important to our growth. But I have tried fishing and just realized that all of my creativity lies somewhere else. I'm suggesting that we try a slightly different way of doing something that could greatly benefit URPG in not just the Story, Art, RP, and Contest Sections but definitely the battle section too.

    This is probably not the answer you're looking for, but I think it's an answer to a lot of URPGers who are struggling with the cut-and-dry nature of the game right now

    Right on! I think the answer is something that we're all going to find together. and you might have given a different answer to many people! Thanks for reading and replying!
    URPG

  6. #6
    Head of the URPG HKim's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Honest Question

    Excellent post, Smiles. I certainly agree with many of your points.

    The URPG has always looked to expand and grow as a system and as a community. Ironically, despite years of development beforehand, it took the expansion of the URPG to Bulbagarden to finally launch the internal developments of the National Park and Contests sections. I think that over the last few years, URPGers have grown accustomed and interested in exploring new ways for us to interact with each other within the existing framework. Missions, Dungeons, and Adventures are good examples of ideas we wanted to look into that could go alongside Battles.

    The truth is, I truly believe that our system can be taken a step further, as long as we have the will and vision to see it through.

    I'm not entirely sure we can combine every creative section together, but I think I get the gist of the idea. If we were to make it so that Creative Projects were an end goal in and of itself, then we might be able to create a non-strategic system that URPGers may embark on during their journey. This idea could certainly be rewarding, in a number of ways (accomplishment and physical rewards for the creators, enjoyment for the viewers, etc.) I imagine that creativity can include not just the methods mentioned above, but also other avenues of expression such as Audio and Video. Voice acting parts of a story or RP could prove to be interesting indeed (and I still have a mostly modified version of A Christmas Carol featuring URPG members).

    I think the key here is to brainstorm various ideas. There more options we have floating around, the better ideas we'll have to choose from.

    As I see it, one possible way is to set it up like an adventure, similar to how we base URPG Battles on. Battles uses a gym badge system that leads to the Elite 4. In the same vein, we can have awards that are achievable in a linear fashion, perhaps resulting in being able to face greater challenges with greater rewards. Another way of measuring this could be in the form of rank, which we see often enough in video games.

    Another option would be to leave the system a little looser, allowing for collaborations to be done in the same way Art or Stories are created with the resulting piece speaking for itself. I'm not sure how we track progress, but I imagine we can integrate some sort of Achievement system.

    And I'm sure there are other ideas as well.

  7. #7

    Default Re: An Honest Question

    I kind of agree with this. I'm really still a beginner because even though I kind of started a while ago, I haven't been able to get anywhere because my team just isn't up to par battle standards, and I'm having a hard time making money and improving my team. Therefore, I'm stuck in a bit of a loop where I want to acquire more Pokemon and items but am having difficulty doing so because I can't get any money.

    If there could be a system where we could gain as much money as we could by battling, I would definitely be more active in URPG.

  8. #8

    Default Re: An Honest Question

    The obvious combination of writing and RP is writing a story and environment for people to RP in - playing the Game Master. It would be collaborative writing between players and GMs, and GMs could work together on larger storylines and events. Art is trickier to add in, but work could be commissioned for group RP's, providing header pictures to assist GMing, such as a visual of a cyborg Hawlucha, a raging Hydreigon in a warehouse or anything the GM imagines. Artists could also provide pieces for the park, such as mapping it out picture by picture, or for events in a similar manner to group RP.

    Players could have characters with skills that could be used in group RP, Dungeons and Park. Each section could have skills which can only be used in those particular areas, as well as skills which cannot be used in those areas. Players could have limited access to skills through a level based system, which could also limit players from having a character with every skill and allowing for mechanical diversity. These skills could be things like small passive bonuses to non-competitive gameplay elements, like reduced damage taken by their Pokémon from certain sources in Dungeons, Park, Boss Fights and/or Group RP. It would have to be kept to simple values to enable smooth display for GMs to view, as well as in a small number of significant stages to operate effectively within URPG's honour system of not fiddling your stats. A thread to purchase new skills.

    Dungeons could be available in various areas of the creative and cooperative sections. A Group RP might involve an in-character dungeon with a greater focus on the environment than battling Pokémon, a Park dungeon may involve trying to avoid battle rooms as part of an event, and a generic dungeon may be focused on battling Pokémon together and acquiring virtual material possessions such as money and items.
    Generic Dungeons should not completely be out-of-character though. They should not necessarily require all players to use a character, and RP could be as light as copy-pasting generic scenery descriptions from a thread for the most procedural or chilled runs.
    Dungeons have their own section to discuss development, and I'm going to try to focus on getting the post I said I was going to do last year done. @_@

    Boss Fights would pretty much be the same as described before - like Cooperative FFA's. I think the FFA-style ones should be called Epic Boss Fights to reflect their size. Dungeons, Park and Group RP could feature their own Boss Fights as well, but by their sections be smaller by default and scaled to difficulty rather than size.

    Tell me what you think! Feedback is appreciated! This is a game system for you guys so let's make it happen and make it right!! :D

  9. #9
    I ᴅᴏɴ'ᴛ ʙɪᴛᴇ, I ᴘʀᴏʙᴇ Lovecraft's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Honest Question

    It seems an interesting idea, would this theoretical "Dungeon" section have the same staff as the Park one or have a brand new set of staff people?
    Or would it be more like Dark's idea that has kind of faded to black?

  10. #10

    Default Re: An Honest Question

    I made a chart to go with the preceding arguments for expanding the game systems.

    It is clear that the Stories, Art and Park (Roleplay) sections are very light on content. Just about everything involves developing a roster which sees most of its use in Battling and Contests.

    Combining, expanding and building on previous attempts to develop new game content for URPG, and working with player requests, I propose the following updates and projects.


    Battling additions:
    Dungeons
    Already in Development, Dungeons involve cooperative battling in randomly generated 9x9 grids.
    Multiple modes of play would be possible: Battle, Exploration and Roleplay.
    A Battle Dungeon would be the system mostly as it is in the Development forum, involving random typed floors of increasing difficulty. These would have some flavour text that could be copy-pasted from a Dungeons Encyclopedia to keep them from becoming too dryly procedural and disconnected from roleplay, as well as use of Characters. They mostly feature Pokémon to battle, but may involve other challenges to overcome.
    Exploration Dungeons are more in-character and would not use a grid for their layout. Instead, they would use more written description of the environment with clearly presented paths to progress. Players would not have to roleplay, but would have more freedom to choose how they proceed. There would still be as many or more Battle Rooms, but a more open layout with additional pathways that could be utilized with HM moves.
    The third mode of Dungeons, Roleplay, would be more planned out rather than totally randomly generated. They would be in-character and tied to other areas of the Roleplay section, such as Dungeons based on areas of the National Park or to link in with the current Campaign storyline. They may involve unusual objectives such as targetting only specific Pokémon species, avoiding battling non-Bosses, or solving puzzles.

    Epic Boss Battles
    Mostly developed, Epic Boss Battles are large, FFA-like cooperative battles against a single, challenging encounter. They are the natural accompaniment to Dungeons as FFAs are to Battles, providing group content that scales with any number of players.

    Roleplay additions:
    Adventures
    Adventures would be forum-based roleplay similar to the National Park, but with storylines created by Writers.
    Functionally, they would involve shorter and more frequent posts than is typical for the National Park, and would involve navigating a story through roleplaying. They would always require at least two players, or more at higher difficulty.
    Adventures would be graded and approved by senior Roleplay staff, and hosted by someone with the Storyteller job - like a Ranger with more freedom and responsibility, which would likely be the creator of the Adventure.
    They would have multiple difficulty levels, and may require a Park Run to be undertaken before an Adventure can be. One option is to disallow the use of purchased and/or traded Pokémon from a mid-level of Adventures onwards, to encourage writing, arting and roleplaying for new Pokémon.
    Adventures may include challenges and content such as befriending wild or enemy Pokémon featured in them, passing through Roleplay Dungeons or solving scenarios.
    They would need some attention and discussion from Stories and Roleplay staff to ensure challenge and enjoyment are present for both Storytellers and players.

    Characters
    The National Park Sign Up and Roles in Dungeons could be combined together to form full-fledged Characters.
    Characters would allow for more roleplaying opportunities throughout the section, as well as providing a Roleplay-section-specific progression path while building a team towards more difficult Adventures and Campaign content.
    Using your Character for Park Runs, Adventures, Roleplay Dungeons and Campaign content would provide points to purchase Skills and Perks from a skill tree and thread.
    Skills would range from active abilities like being able to heal Pokémon in Roleplay content and Dungeons, to small bonuses to their Pokémon's battling ability in Roleplay content, to character bonuses towards performing certain actions when roleplaying.
    Skills would have one rank each and require a different amount of points to purchase, and some skills and perks would require others to be purchased first.
    There could be a cap on how many skills you could earn on a character, making some combinations mutually exclusive. Skills could also have other requirements.
    Perks would unlock rewards such as a choice of one from a list of Pokémon, a sum of money or special items. They would be high cost and in stages, e.g. Easiest+Simple list -> Simple+Medium list -> Medium+Hard list, $5,000 -> $10,000 -> $15,000.
    I'm not sure if there should be a limit on Perks or if they should be by player.

    Campaign
    The peak of the Roleplay section would be the Campaign, a seasonal or yearly storyline created by URPG's best Writers.
    The Campaign would feature content from across the URPG, including Dungeons, Park Events, Adventures, Epic Boss Battles, Stories and Art to tell a larger story, expanding on the world of URPG's National Park.
    Content would be released in stages over the season or year, and player actions, successes and failures would impact the storyline.
    Players would gain access to unique rewards with each storyline that may include skills, items or the chance to try catching or befriending an expansive choice of Pokémon or a minor Legendary (BST ~600 crowd) through roleplay.

    Writing additions:
    Write Adventures
    Writers who have written Stories of a challenging rank, Hard or Complex or higher, and Rangers who have similarly proven their ability to write with quality, would earn the submit new Adventures.
    Adventures are essentially interactive stories with Park-style battling against Storyteller-controlled opponents. Those writing Adventures might have similar freedom to writing Stories, but accommodating players instead of an intended Pokémon to earn.
    Unlike the Campaign, Adventures would not need to be part of the URPG setting, and could be stand-alone or part of a series.
    They would require grading and approval before players could sign up for them. The Writer of an Adventure should always have first right to play Storyteller for their own creation, but could leave it available for others to run.

    Adventures would have a difficulty scale to indicate how long they might be and how developed the players' Pokémon teams or Characters might need to be.
    Similar to Pokémon story ranks, an Adventure would have stages of Easiest to Complex.
    Easiest would be available to help introduce people to roleplaying in URPG.
    Simple would be for players who are just starting out in the section.
    Medium would be where Adventures should begin trying to test players' abilities in roleplaying, navigating the story and Park-style battling.
    Hard would, in short, be harder. Hard Adventures should make players work to succeed.
    Complex would be the high end of Adventures, where players should be challenged to resolve the story.
    Rules regarding their construct and approval systems would need input from Stories and Park sections.

    Write for Campaign
    The end-game for Writers, those who meet the most difficult challenges of Stories in URPG would be able to write the storyline of URPG itself and work together to create the content that tells it.
    Writing for the Campaign would have a wide range of creative possibilities, utilizing any of the game sections thematically. For example, one Campaign Writer might set a section of Story in the Pokémon Contest scene and require participation in Contests from players in order to interact with these elements.
    The Campaign would generally feature Exploration and Roleplay Dungeons, Park Events, Adventures, Epic Boss Battles, Stories and Art, depending on the Campaign Writers' storylines and their creativity in telling them.
    This system would also require input from Stories and Park sections.

    Art additions:
    Art for Adventures
    Successful Artists would be able to create Art for Adventures in two main ways: Inspiration, and Depictive.
    Inspiration pieces would be used to base an Adventure around. They may be a story in themselves, and would be curated before use. They might require use of certain prompts or other factors to qualify.
    Depictive pieces would be used in Adventures as visual aids, depicting non-player characters, scenes or anything that can be visually represented. Adventure Writers may work with an Artist before posting their work, or may post a request for a particular description to be created.
    They would scale with difficulty levels alongside Adventures.

    Art the Park
    The final game of the Art section would be to draw the Park, picture-by-picture.
    These would be from the most successful Artists in URPG, and immortalize their artistry by creating canon visuals of the National Park. They might include scenes of areas and/or Pokémon, Ranger Stations or other buildings, or landscapes.
    Only the most successful Artists would be able to submit pieces towards this.

    Additional Systems:
    Some ideas have been offered to help with these systems, and include...

    Random Mail
    Random mail could be given out as rewards for some content and be, essentially, a lottery for additional rewards. They would mostly be junk letters that could be used as Hold Items or sold in Garage Sales, but would occasionally turn out to be something else that could fit in a letter such as money, items like Weakness Policy, or Roleplay material.

    Cash for Creatives
    Writers and Artists could gain money bonuses for works that would pass higher difficulty ranks if they were written as such, but excluding Easiest and Simples. Stories and Art could also forgo Pokémon capture targets in return for additional money bonuses, to allow for Pokémon-related works that do not heavily feature Pokémon themselves.

    tl;dr:


    As always, feedback greatly appreciated! :D

  11. #11
    Deal With Us Furretz's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Honest Question

    @BlueTowel; One word: incredible. I am new, and with the current setup I would really just battle for evolutions, because I'm more into RP'ing. Your proposal has blown me out of the water. I personally love adventures, I am that kind of RP'er. Campaigns seem cool too. I guess the additions to Art and Stories are good, but I can't tell. I would write more if I could.
    Last edited by Furretz; 18th June 2014 at 03:45 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: An Honest Question

    Bluey, your creativity is incredible! My ideas, more of which I'll share in a second, are really a lot smaller than what you've taken a lot of time and effort into crafting. Also, thank you to everybody else for taking sincere interest in this all! I really feel like this will go somewhere.

    Really quickly, I'm a very hands-on person who needs to see models / examples to grasp an idea. I've created this dummy board to hopefully clarify my ideas through example: Home | Forum . It's a small place where I can literally throw ideas onto a board, and anyone is MORE than welcome to join and post ideas too!

    Ok, so, some of my thoughts:

    • Achievement Points: or AP, is a secondary measure of achievement that runs alongside current URPG currency. A small sum of AP is earned every time somebody completes a Park Run, submits an art work or writes a story. With AP, players can purchase Pokemon and Items that differ from what the PokeMart offers. Additionally, AP buys skills, perks (perhaps organized into levels?) that Bluey mentioned. They would potentially be organized into something such as this and this.

      Ideally, AP received is a very small sum that adds up with each attempt towards a creative work. I haven't worked out concrete numbers, but approximately for every five stories / art / submissions / a combination of the mentioned for a Medium-Ranked Pokemon, a player will be able to buy a Medium-Ranked Pokemon through their AP. Or, that player could save their AP, keep working, and eventually reap a reward of an even bigger prize.

    • Completing the PokeDex: Because stories, park runs, art submissions, buying Pokemon with money or AP, and possibly voice submissions all revolve around creating a roster, I think it's ideal to organize a secondary measure of achievement for completing the PokeDex through these means. See [url=http://urpgplzdunsueme.freeforums.net/thread/4/completing-pokedex] for a little more information on how that works; basically, players receive a "reward package" for every rank they acquire by completing more of the PokeDex through the above-mentioned methods. These reward packages gift money, a claimable Pokemon, and AP points based upon what Rank the player is.

      I conceptualized this system in the manner that current URPGers will receive a large sum of AP that will hopefully get them more involved into creative works while receiving money. I promised that it wouldn't hinder the current system, only create more rewards for similar effort while getting people even more interested in what's out there. Also, the rewards for completing the PokeDex encourage non-battlers like me because now I'll be even more inclined towards evolving my Pokemon (and then might become further interested in battling with them).

      Although the system is cumulative so that you earn more as you keep playing, current URPG players would only be able to "start" at wherever they're currently at in progress. So for example, somebody like Bee who has nearly filled the PokeDex wouldn't be eligible for reward packages Rookie Trainer - Pokemon Master. He would only receive the prize for Pokemon Master, and go from there.

      The rewards seem slightly ridiculous in scope, but I'm looking at it from the perspective of the more Pokemon you have, the more money / AP you should have to equip those Pokemon.

      The final reward seems impossible. Somebody would have had to spread their creativity and expertise in all directions for it to even be feasible. From winning all the story competitions to all the art competitions to all the battles against a Pokemon Champion... but I like the idea of the impossible. It's one of the things that drew me to the URPG in the first place, the idea of a challenge so great it'll take everything you've got and ten times more. You always have something to work towards.

    • Art Commissions & Story Deals: An interactive section would be where players can write / draw / RP at the request of another player for a certain Pokemon. This is really a minor thing, but I think it would help organize the current business of these deals into one tidy little place.

    • Joint Projects: This was the first half of my vision towards a more interactive system (with a new measurement of achievement being the second). Concisely, artists / writers / RPers / wonderful voice people work together towards capturing a Pokemon in one "project" thread. Along with the normal AP and Pokemon they would have normally received from completing these works individually, this team also receives additional AP points for working together. Encouraging people to work together. Ideally, the team of evaluators would receive a slight wage bonus for working together as well in their evaluation.

      Competitions for Team Projects, etc

      An example of a passed project and a failed project.



    Please let me know what you think! I'm really happy people are reading / taking these considerations seriously. Y'all are the best!!

    also if somebody wants to grab my park run on PWN, I'd really enjoy that as well #shamelessplug

    Replying to what Bluey said next! There's a lot of gold there!
    URPG

  13. #13

    Default Re: An Honest Question

    Thanks for the Likes and kind responses, guys. ^_^

    Quote Originally Posted by Smiles View Post
    Achievement Points: or AP, is a secondary measure of achievement that runs alongside current URPG currency. A small sum of AP is earned every time somebody completes a Park Run, submits an art work or writes a story. With AP, players can purchase Pokemon and Items that differ from what the PokeMart offers. Additionally, AP buys skills, perks (perhaps organized into levels?) that Bluey mentioned. They would potentially be organized into something such as this and this.

    Ideally, AP received is a very small sum that adds up with each attempt towards a creative work. I haven't worked out concrete numbers, but approximately for every five stories / art / submissions / a combination of the mentioned for a Medium-Ranked Pokemon, a player will be able to buy a Medium-Ranked Pokemon through their AP. Or, that player could save their AP, keep working, and eventually reap a reward of an even bigger prize.
    Definitely! This is very much what I had in mind for half of Character Perks.

    It could be taken a step further with three main currencies: $, "AP", and "Experience Points".
    $ could be the current main system of money that is used to purchase in the PokéMart and everything that exists as-is.
    "AP" could be currency for player-side rewards such as buying Pokémon, converting creative work to additional $, and maybe converting creative work to character development through experience points too. Gained slowly through creative works and in chunks from Pokédex completion. Purchases relatively expensive, i.e., 5 Medium works to gain enough AP to purchase a Medium.
    "Experience points" could be largely character-based and be a combination of Skills and in-character Perks such as professions (e.g., Doctor, Police, Criminal Team) and extraordinary abilities (e.g., Parkour, Eidetic Memory, Beefcake) that would have significant benefits in roleplaying. Experience points would be relatively slow as well, and there would be limits to prevent players inevitably having every skill on a character. Each skill would have different costs and, like with AP, players would have the option to save up rather than spend as soon as they have enough points.
    I think Achievement Points may be misleading as a name, though. AP wouldn't entirely be gained from and for achievements, and may be confused for other games' achievement systems.


    Quote Originally Posted by Smiles View Post
    Completing the PokeDex: Because stories, park runs, art submissions, buying Pokemon with money or AP, and possibly voice submissions all revolve around creating a roster, I think it's ideal to organize a secondary measure of achievement for completing the PokeDex through these means. See [url=http://urpgplzdunsueme.freeforums.net/thread/4/completing-pokedex] for a little more information on how that works; basically, players receive a "reward package" for every rank they acquire by completing more of the PokeDex through the above-mentioned methods. These reward packages gift money, a claimable Pokemon, and AP points based upon what Rank the player is.

    I conceptualized this system in the manner that current URPGers will receive a large sum of AP that will hopefully get them more involved into creative works while receiving money. I promised that it wouldn't hinder the current system, only create more rewards for similar effort while getting people even more interested in what's out there. Also, the rewards for completing the PokeDex encourage non-battlers like me because now I'll be even more inclined towards evolving my Pokemon (and then might become further interested in battling with them).

    Although the system is cumulative so that you earn more as you keep playing, current URPG players would only be able to "start" at wherever they're currently at in progress. So for example, somebody like Bee who has nearly filled the PokeDex wouldn't be eligible for reward packages Rookie Trainer - Pokemon Master. He would only receive the prize for Pokemon Master, and go from there.

    The rewards seem slightly ridiculous in scope, but I'm looking at it from the perspective of the more Pokemon you have, the more money / AP you should have to equip those Pokemon.
    I like it. It would need a breakdown of every source of Pokémon to determine how much to award at which stages, but that's a balancing detail.
    There may be an issue with providing benefit to battling through collecting Pokémon, but I don't think it's particularly significant if rewards are low at the low end, as they are in the examples.
    Another issue might be with players trying to abuse the system to exploit for profit, collecting Pokémon from the Mart and using basics battles and Pokédex rewards to build funds without really participating in the game, but with them being by-player and one-time-only it would not be effective outside of attempting to claim the same stage multiple times; easily detected.
    A split of AP into AP and Experience Points would allow players to focus their rewards towards the game content that most appeals to them. Money is universally beneficial, and allowing AP to be converted to other currencies would allow some choice and flexibility in progression. Some players might want to develop a Pokémon team ($ for more EMs), others might want to purchase favourite Pokémon (AP for purchasing by rank), and others still might prefer to build characters to roleplay with (Exp for Skills).



    Quote Originally Posted by Smiles View Post
    Art Commissions & Story Deals: An interactive section would be where players can write / draw / RP at the request of another player for a certain Pokemon. This is really a minor thing, but I think it would help organize the current business of these deals into one tidy little place.

    Joint Projects: This was the first half of my vision towards a more interactive system (with a new measurement of achievement being the second). Concisely, artists / writers / RPers / wonderful voice people work together towards capturing a Pokemon in one "project" thread. Along with the normal AP and Pokemon they would have normally received from completing these works individually, this team also receives additional AP points for working together. Encouraging people to work together. Ideally, the team of evaluators would receive a slight wage bonus for working together as well in their evaluation.

    Competitions for Team Projects, etc

    An example of a passed project and a failed project.
    These sound perfect!
    A thread to help remember and track story deals, while not having the obligation of posting to keep them informal. Additional AP for working together in mixed-medium formats.

    ---

    An issue with my proposition is that it would be a lot of work to implement it all in one go, as well as likely to start weakly as the systems are slowly, organically populated with players and staff.
    So what I'd reckon is a staggered implementation, including Smiles' propositions. Three stages where systems are implemented together.
    Adventures would make a likely 2nd Stage, with Art and Writing feeding in to them as well. The Campaign would open up as a 3rd Stage, with Art the Park at the same time.
    So that would make the other aspects mentioned (Dungeons, Epic Boss Battles, Characters, Achievement Points, Pokédex Completion, Joint Projects) the foremost projects to develop.
    In the interest of keeping things moving, I'd spend the next week collecting feedback from this thread, elaborating and modelling on how these developments would be function and be implemented, and open more official threads next Sunday.
    Does this sound fair? :)

  14. #14

    Default Re: An Honest Question

    • Dungeons & Boss Battles: this is on-point! I think I would have to see an example of what it would be like before I can say anything more about this, but I love the grid aspect and the cooperation > competitive part of it too ^^ definitely going to be a lot of fun.

    • Adventures: To be entirely honest, I can't currently see how an Adventure differs from a normal park run. Park runs in themselves are incredible adventures, and I've learned recently that they are lots of fun if the trainer works with the ranger to achieve a complex and engaging storyline rather than "ranger throw next mon at me plz." I can see how it would be exciting to have a storyline written out, but then I feel like this takes away all of the creativity and fun out of the ranger's part of the job. Also, I'm personally against the idea of fulfilling a point-by-point plot line made up by somebody else. If the ranger (or other RPer) and I are along a path and see something cool, I'd like to follow that path with my fellow RPer and not have to do whatever comes next in my fate. The spontaneity is part of what makes RP fun, at least for me. Plus, with the difficulty levels and restrictions, I feel like Adventures would just be a URPG story two people are writing that has been summarized / thought up by by somebody else already :x

      Maybe I'm overstepping my place by saying this, but I think activity would improve in the National Park as it is if people entering changed their overall schema of what a park run is like. If everyone came in with the mentality of, "oh wow, wonder what my ranger and I will do today!" vs. "oh wow, I wonder when the next Pokemon will show up!" I think we'd get a lot more happy RPers entering. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your concept?

    • Characters & Experience Points & Abilities: I like the idea of building upon a character for Dungeon and the National Park. However, I feel like the whole concept of experience points and "professions" are going to make us into an MMO ^^;;; that's not necessarily a bad thing - but I'm not entirely understanding the difference between AP and Experience Points. Achievements points would be gained from and for achievements. Anyone who has ever written a story (I'M LOOKING AT ALL YOU; DO YOUR SWC'S NOW) or completed a park run or submitted a piece of art should feel like they're achieved something awesome. Conceptually, when you work hard and achieve something awesome you should be able to use that achievement to build more achievements, which translates to buying mons / items / skills. And that's as simple as it needs to be.

      So would experience points only buy skills and perks? Also... why limit peoples' skills? If someone has worked hard / gained enough experience through that hard work, shouldn't they be entitled to all the skills they want?

      Experience points may be confused for every leveling system in the universe of games.

    • Campaign: I really, really like the idea of the Campaign as a reward for the best writers / RPers conceptually. Being able to basically write the main storyline of the URPG and play through the world you make would be fun! But I'm also worried that this would just be a LOT of work for 2-3 people to be doing for over a year. Keeping track of what people are doing in their RPs, neat ways to make huge impacts, scheduling timelines... @~@ it sounds good now but seven months in I feel like it'd be more of a punishment than a reward for both the winners and the people trying to play through it. Any thoughts?

    • have the same qualms about Writing for Adventures and Art for Adventures. Some of my favorite artists in the URPG have admitted to not being able to do landscapes all that well... so I also feel like that'd be a punishment instead of a reward... and then having to feel obligated to submit something because you won may also be slightly restricting. In my mind, I'm paralleling the art submissions to the awesome banners people would make for park places - and I feel like anyone should be able to submit that.

    • Random Mail: what does mail do hehe

    • Cash for Creatives: "Good job on your 100k Harry Potter-Pokemon story! here's $50,000!" is this what you mean?? @~@ I think that's a generous idea for players who don't want to write Pokemon stories for the capture, but then does the grader still "grade" a story without a capture attempt? Also, what's the inspiration behind paying them? Wouldn't it be more fitting for them to receive AP? I like paying people for commissions because that's a service, but if you're writing a story for yourself then that is a service for yourself and thus AP.

      I realize I'm playing Devil's Advocate on a lot of these ideas, but I'm picking up on misunderstanding on my part, or maybe potential holes, that I think would best be teased out now.

    • Completing the PokeDex: Ah, I definitely understand your qualms about people purchasing mons in the mart! In my mind, there's two levels of "rookie trainer-esque" ranks: one for a trainer who completes ~10 dex entries, and then one for a trainer who buys all the mons in the AP shop and PokeMart and evolves them through battling. Maximum reward would prolly be around ~25k for that level. If anything, the goal is to keep the new URPGers interested in URPG and battling and getting interested in other parts of the URPG as well. And if anything, general battling goes up and refs get paid more :p also, I don't understand: "but with them being by-player and one-time-only it would not be effective outside of attempting to claim the same stage multiple times; easily detected."

      I see what you're saying about being able to convert AP, but I'm foreseeing a lot of corruption with that happening. Say somebody gets into the pattern of only doing art commissions for people, thus earning money + converting it into more money, drawing Pokemon for their own, earning AP and then converting that lol, and then like that the new trainer who joined a month ago suddenly has twenty NUKEM Pokemon without participating in the game really. XD That's just me being paranoid, but then I'm worried that defining a scale for conversion would be hard to do. Two solidified currencies for two different parts of the URPG is, in my mind, yin and yang. Good balance.


    If people like the whole AP idea and PokeDex Completion idea, I can work on that and have working models ready by the end of July. Also ready to work on other parts people like too - just need to see even the most basic of concrete examples before I touch something and break it ^^;;
    URPG

  15. #15
    ._. Synthesis's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Honest Question

    Really good work guys! @BlueTowel;
    @Smiles ; We did a good few dungeon runs. Here is an incompleted one when we were testing out trainer roles I believe. There were also about ten or so completed ones done in the blast chat on AIM. Honestly this section was pretty close to completion with just a few things needing to be confirmed and a few decissions to be made. Repetitivity, potential DM bias and deciding on whether runs would be just one floor or multiple. In the end, I think it was agreed the option to leave at the end of each floor with three floors of increasing difficulty. And teams of one or two trainers and one DM were most effective!

    If you guys want to continue with this, I'm happy to help!

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