Thread: Filling up Open Gyms (Substitute Gym Leaders)

Right, so for clarification: A gym leader who currently owns a gym would be allowed to apply for a second, but anyone who does not yet own a gym would get preferential application priority.

Originally Posted by Eraizaa-kun

I honestly like the idea of Gym Leaders being allowed to have 2 Gyms, but, there is just one problem I see with it. No one would be able to take over certain gyms in the future if the Gym Leaders can claim more than one.

hmm...How about this?

Allow Gym Leaders to keep their Primary Gym and be able to temporarily take over a Secondary Gym as well until someone applies become that Secondary Gym's Leader.

It's a lot easier than my Gym Trainers idea, yes.

The idea would be that they can have two, but you're right in that they would be a substitute. Someone could still apply for it.

Originally Posted by Monbrey

Right, so for clarification: A gym leader who currently owns a gym would be allowed to apply for a second, but anyone who does not yet own a gym would get preferential application priority.

I like this.

I skimmed this thread because I am tired and sick and have a headache, but the gist of it is that if a Gym has no Leader, there are three substitutes instead. That doesn't seem particularly practical to me, but I'll keep my mouth shut and let Monbrey deal with it. One thing I will say is this: the Trainers should not be able to give out the Gym Badge, especially if there IS a Leader present. As Veilstone Leader, I'd be pretty pissed off if my Trainers went around sucking ass and giving away my badges. 80% of the URPG already has my badge - I'd rather it be that than 95%.

Originally Posted by ChainReaction01

Originally Posted by Monbrey

Right, so for clarification: A gym leader who currently owns a gym would be allowed to apply for a second, but anyone who does not yet own a gym would get preferential application priority.

I like this.

I skimmed this thread because I am tired and sick and have a headache, but the gist of it is that if a Gym has no Leader, there are three substitutes instead. That doesn't seem particularly practical to me, but I'll keep my mouth shut and let Monbrey deal with it. One thing I will say is this: the Trainers should not be able to give out the Gym Badge, especially if there IS a Leader present. As Veilstone Leader, I'd be pretty pissed off if my Trainers went around sucking ass and giving away my badges. 80% of the URPG already has my badge - I'd rather it be that than 95%.

Yeah, three trainers would be hugely impractical. Substitute gym leaders is a decent idea.

Ideally, it's supposed to be the responsibility of the LO to try and fill their region with skilled gym leaders. I realize this isn't always possible, but it never hurts to suggest to people that use a certain type of Pokemon that they should try out for a gym.

Originally Posted by ChainReaction01

Originally Posted by Monbrey

Right, so for clarification: A gym leader who currently owns a gym would be allowed to apply for a second, but anyone who does not yet own a gym would get preferential application priority.

I like this.

I skimmed this thread because I am tired and sick and have a headache, but the gist of it is that if a Gym has no Leader, there are three substitutes instead. That doesn't seem particularly practical to me, but I'll keep my mouth shut and let Monbrey deal with it. One thing I will say is this: the Trainers should not be able to give out the Gym Badge, especially if there IS a Leader present. As Veilstone Leader, I'd be pretty pissed off if my Trainers went around sucking ass and giving away my badges. 80% of the URPG already has my badge - I'd rather it be that than 95%.

That's actually old news. Now we are looking into the option of letting gym leaders have an additional gym where they would pose a substitutes while a new Gym Leader is assigned to the second gym.

Originally Posted by Eraizaa-kun

First of all, I'd like to point out that this idea needs some work, so, I'd really like input on how to improve it 'cause I think it would help solve a problem in the URPG.


Well, as we all know, it's been very hard to get a gym leader for every single gym there is. It's not because there aren't any Trainers that could do a good job. It's because the Trainers that could either don't want the gym, have a gym already, they simply don't want the responsibility, or maybe they think they are not good enough when they really are. But, URPGers still need the badges.

So, here's my idea: Gym Trainers.

We could open the position of Gym Trainers for every gym that's open. People would be able to apply for Gym Trainer of a certain gym even if they already have a Gym or even if they are Gym Trainers of another gym. As long as a trainer is experienced enough and has at least 2 or 3 strong fully evolved Pokemon of the appropriate type, he/she should be able to apply to be a Gym Trainer.

After a URPGer has successfully defeated 3 Gym Trainers of the same gym, they get awarded the Gym Badge. However, if a Gym Leader is assigned at any point, the Gym Trainers will lose their position and everyone will have to face the new Gym Leader for the badge regardless of the progress they had with the Gym Trainers.


Still, if this idea were to get approved, there are still some details to settle first:

1-Would a TM be given along with the badge? If so, would be a TM of the gym's type chosen by the Trainer, or a specific TM chosen by the League Organizer, or someone else?
2-How much Rule Setting Power will the Gym Trainers have? I think gym Trainer battles should all be 3vs3 with the other rules chosen by the Gym Trainer, but, that's just my opinion. We could also make it so that the very last Gym Trainer has full control over the rules, even amount of Pokemon.
3-Should the URPGer have to beat all the Gym Trainers in a row (as in, having to start over if he/she loses once Elite 4 style), or would that be too hard?
4-Should the URPGers have the freedom to choose who to battle first or would they have to battle them in a specific order (least experienced to most experienced). If we choose the latter one, we could probably allow at least one Trainer with little experience to become a Gym Trainer (one per gym).
5-Should each gym have exactly 3 Gym Trainers or, for the sake of activity, could a gym have more than 3? (of course, you'd only need to face 3 to get the badge)
6-Would Gym Trainers be allowed to Rent Pokemon and/or have a Wild Card Pokemon?


I know that's kind of a lot and I'm probably missing details that need to be looked at, but, given enough time, I believe this could help with the problem of the constantly Open gyms.

I think this could be great if done right. So let's look at what we have, one Would a TM be given along with the badge? Well yes but the League Organizer would have to chose it.

Two, How much Rule Setting Power will the Gym Trainers have? This one is easy they have all the power, because they my not be a gym leader like me or the rest of the leaders. But if they are running the gym until a new leader is found, then they should have the power to pick what rules they want.

Three, Should the URPGer have to beat all the Gym Trainers in a row. I say no, the Elite Four is that way because it is hard to beat the four best in the URPG no one wants a weak champion. So as it stands beating one gym leader can be hard, so battling three trainer will be hard enough as it is.

Four, Should the URPGers have the freedom to choose who to battle first or would they have to battle them in a specific order. I don't think there should be a order in which a trainer has to fight a gym trainer, they is no point let them pick who they want to battle. After all they sooner are later they will have to face someone a little strong, so I see no point in making the battle in a order.

Five, Should each gym have exactly 3 Gym Trainers or, for the sake of activity, could a gym have more than 3? I don't know about this one I think three is good enough, but we will have to be careful because I like the idea of gym trainer, But you might need more I say that because, there are some great battler in the URPG and you don't want someone just coming in and knocking the hell out some pour nub that might be good just not good enough. So this is big for me I don't want to make it easier for some people to get a badge, and this will do that.

Six, Would Gym Trainers be allowed to Rent Pokemon and/or have a Wild Card Pokemon? I Say if they have at least six pokemon for that gym no if they have less then that, then sure why not.

Overall I like it, but there are some stuff I wonder about. Like if I didn't have my gym and gym trainers took it over. One would they have to use all rock pokemon? I think they should have to use at least two in there line up, but they are not gym leaders so will they have to use all rock? or can they mix it up a bit and throw in a steel type. It's little things like that I would like to see in this talk. But like I said it's a good idea.

Now as for having more then one, Gym love that idea let gym leaders have substitutes. I don't see a problem with that I mean if that were to happen, I would be at the Apply for a Gym thread right now getting me another gym. If I was a Mod and this came up I would vote YES.

I like the idea of substitute.

The main issue I see with substitute gym leaders is pretty much the same issue that has been mentioned for the gym trainers idea. The badges for those gyms would be a bit easier to get. Let's say someone has a rock type gym for example. If they have the gym they likely have enough rock type mons and a good idea of rock type strategy to properly defend a rock type gym. What they likely don't have is the appropriate mons to defend a water gym for example.

Now obviously people aren't going to be, or rather shouldn't be, applying to a gym that they don't have the mons for. However, if a gym needs to be filled the gym needs to be filled. Now generic rock gym leader from the example would have a decent chance at being able to defend another rock gym. Does that mean we restrict gym leaders to only defending gyms of the same type? It wouldn't be a bad way of doing it. They could use the same line up and the challenger just has to say which gym they are battling. This might be too restricting though and end up with a similar issue we have now.

However, we still run into the issue of the badge being easier to get because people might not have the right mons for it. After all it can take a while to get enough mons to have a half way decent roster for one gym, let alone a second one. So perhaps make it so the gym they are substituting for has a roster of primarily rentals. That way, generic rock gym leader can rent some water types and help out the system by substituting for an open water gym. The obvious requirement to be able to use mostly rentals in a gym would be to have your own non-Orange Island gym. Of course, Orange Island gyms would be barred from being able to have substitute leaders unless it became needed.

Of course, we could always just leave it the way it is, let some of the newer people get interested in some of the open gyms and wait for them to fill them up. Gyms don't stay open forever. There will eventually be someone that wants them.

That's not all true, because I have a Rock Gym and I could run another gym just fine. It would not matter if it's a Water Gym or a grass Gym me, I been getting grass Pokemon so I can take over a grass gym, but that's does not mean my Rock type strategy wont work. All that mean is I have to change a few things in my strategy, to fit the grass Pokemon I will be using. I can say one thing for sure it will not make it easy for people to get the badge if another leader subs a gym. People like AFT Or ST, Pidge, iReign, TheEvilDookie, We Taste Pies..., Bumblebee. All these people can take two gyms just fine I could do it to all it will take it a little change in a team, so to say it will make is easy is just not true. If you have the will to do it you will be fine.

Yeah, if the Substitute Gym Leader idea goes through, it wouldn't mean that a Gym Leader would be given any other gym just because he/she is a Gym Leader. They would have to post a good line up and everything on the "Apply for a Gym" thread and be accepted.

While I agree that a Gym Leader would best be a substitute for another Gym of the same type, I know for a fact plenty of Gym Leaders have strong Pokemon of many different types and wouldn't have a problem defending a gym of a type different than their main gym.

Substitute leader isn't a bad idea. They could have their gym and another until someone (that has no gym) applies to it. The substitute gyms should be pointed out in the Gym Leader thread though, so people applying for gyms that have none could know which are available.

So since I own Blackthorn, and if I took over Sootopolis (if it was open) as substitute, I'd be able to. Then when someone sees that I'm a substitute leader, they could apply and get the gym if they qualify for it and LO approves. This'll help progress things and allow people to not have to wait for someone to take gym spot to get that certain badge.

I like the idea. That way there wouldn't be too much commitment, but all gyms would be available to be battled so people can get badges.

Of course, this also detracts from certain aspects. Normally when a gym leader takes over an inactive gym, they get tons of challenges because new people still need the badge. If there is a substitute who doesn't defend it all that well, the new leader won't get as many challenges because people will already have the badge. This may also discourage people from applying to gyms that have a substitute who has been losing a lot.

Originally Posted by Neonsands

I like the idea. That way there wouldn't be too much commitment, but all gyms would be available to be battled so people can get badges.

Of course, this also detracts from certain aspects. Normally when a gym leader takes over an inactive gym, they get tons of challenges because new people still need the badge. If there is a substitute who doesn't defend it all that well, the new leader won't get as many challenges because people will already have the badge. This may also discourage people from applying to gyms that have a substitute who has been losing a lot.

Valid point, but that's no different to, for want of a better word, a "primary" gym leader not being very good. Considering these are only substitutes, I would think that in most cases the best "primary" gym leaders are going to be the ones defending a second, so we shouldnt have many problems.

If a leader has a good enough record (as deemed so by the head ref or LO) they could maybe take over leading another gym. We already do this for the Orange Islands, and I don't think it would be too much harm. The only restriction I could think of would be not having two gyms in the same region.

I can see that this might not be a popular option, but if people really want the gyms full, this could be a good way to do it.

EDIT: but I really don't like the idea of not beating an actual gym leader to get the badge. Gym trainers, etc don't do it for me.

Just out of curiosity. Gym leaders are considered to have their own badge for the duration of their time as the leader. Would the same hold true of people substituting for a gym? Not that it would be an issue for the most part but it does leave the door open for someone to sub for a gym so they are considered to have that badge. If this badge is the only one they are missing from the set then they now can battle the Elite Four without actually having earned the badges. Granted, if people aren't allowed to sub in a Kanto gym if their primary gym is Kanto for example then it wouldn't be any different than it is now. However, were they to be allowed to own a gym in a Kanto, sticking with the example, and sub for a gym in Kanto then they need only earn six badges.

I think basically what I am trying to get across is I agree with Roulette that they should not have two gyms in one region while also asking if they would be treated as though they had the second gyms badge for the duration of their time there.