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    Default Re: Contest Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Monbrey View Post
    I definitely have to be against Tokens as a permanent thing, otherwise we've basically got two permanent contest currencies, both of which can be traded for basically the same stuff. CC can be used in the contest store, but can now be traded for Pokemon too. Tokens have a select list of contest goods, and can be traded for Pokemon. With a time limit, it pushes people to contest a lot, collect as many as they can and aim for those high tier Pokemon. Otherwise they can just keep contesting and claiming top tier Pokemon endlessly.
    Oh, yeah, definitely not simultaneously. I just meant I don't see why it couldn't be an annual or biannual thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PichuBoy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fawkes. View Post
    afaik the only ones doing it are Chainreaction and ATF.
    ):

    I think a Contest Champ is a good idea - so what if it's too easy to get? As someone else said, LD doesn't even HAVE any pre-requisites. At least this you have to beat five people in battles arguably tougher than Gym battles given that they're not as restricted in their types (and being a BW contest and all).

    I also think the Token thing could be taken to more than just a one-time event, if it's received well, but I suppose that's at the discretion of the people running it.
    LD isn't the highest rank in the battle section. The two aren't comparable.
    No, LD isn't the highest rank, but I'd definitely say LD > Gym Leader. So, that makes it the 2nd highest rank. The 2nd highest rank in Contest is being a division leader. By that logic, we have to make the Divisions LD-standard?

    Being Contest Champ doesn't necessarily have to be at the same difficulty as being Battle Champ, just because they both have 'Champion' in their name and they're both top of their respective sections. It's not like every company in the world has exactly the same requirements to becoming head of that company - sure, they might look for similar traits (hard-working, organised, etc...) but then, they'll all have something different they look for as well, and becoming head of a smaller company would probably be easier than becoming head of a larger company.

    I kinda feel like you're not giving some of the Division Leaders enough credit to defend their Division in the first place :s
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    Default Re: Contest Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by PichuBoy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Monbrey View Post
    I definitely have to be against Tokens as a permanent thing, otherwise we've basically got two permanent contest currencies, both of which can be traded for basically the same stuff. CC can be used in the contest store, but can now be traded for Pokemon too. Tokens have a select list of contest goods, and can be traded for Pokemon. With a time limit, it pushes people to contest a lot, collect as many as they can and aim for those high tier Pokemon. Otherwise they can just keep contesting and claiming top tier Pokemon endlessly.
    Oh, yeah, definitely not simultaneously. I just meant I don't see why it couldn't be an annual or biannual thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PichuBoy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fawkes. View Post
    afaik the only ones doing it are Chainreaction and ATF.
    ):

    I think a Contest Champ is a good idea - so what if it's too easy to get? As someone else said, LD doesn't even HAVE any pre-requisites. At least this you have to beat five people in battles arguably tougher than Gym battles given that they're not as restricted in their types (and being a BW contest and all).

    I also think the Token thing could be taken to more than just a one-time event, if it's received well, but I suppose that's at the discretion of the people running it.
    LD isn't the highest rank in the battle section. The two aren't comparable.
    No, LD isn't the highest rank, but I'd definitely say LD > Gym Leader. So, that makes it the 2nd highest rank. The 2nd highest rank in Contest is being a division leader. By that logic, we have to make the Divisions LD-standard?

    Being Contest Champ doesn't necessarily have to be at the same difficulty as being Battle Champ, just because they both have 'Champion' in their name and they're both top of their respective sections. It's not like every company in the world has exactly the same requirements to becoming head of that company - sure, they might look for similar traits (hard-working, organised, etc...) but then, they'll all have something different they look for as well, and becoming head of a smaller company would probably be easier than becoming head of a larger company.

    I kinda feel like you're not giving some of the Division Leaders enough credit to defend their Division in the first place :s
    Champ > E4 > LD

    LD isn't even related to the gym system anyway, so again, I don't really see why you're using it as a piece in the argument. Also, about motivation to defend your division/gym, I'm pretty sure most gym leaders aren't thinking, "I need to prevent these people from battling the E4", but instead they prioritize their own gym record instead. I'm pretty sure division leaders would hold a similar position on this.

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    I eat Frogs AmericanTreeFrog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contest Thoughts

    Then why don't I just add the five other Division Leaders to complete the original set and install a 'Grand Three or Five'?
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    Default Re: Contest Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PichuBoy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Monbrey View Post
    I definitely have to be against Tokens as a permanent thing, otherwise we've basically got two permanent contest currencies, both of which can be traded for basically the same stuff. CC can be used in the contest store, but can now be traded for Pokemon too. Tokens have a select list of contest goods, and can be traded for Pokemon. With a time limit, it pushes people to contest a lot, collect as many as they can and aim for those high tier Pokemon. Otherwise they can just keep contesting and claiming top tier Pokemon endlessly.
    Oh, yeah, definitely not simultaneously. I just meant I don't see why it couldn't be an annual or biannual thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PichuBoy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fawkes. View Post
    afaik the only ones doing it are Chainreaction and ATF.
    ):

    I think a Contest Champ is a good idea - so what if it's too easy to get? As someone else said, LD doesn't even HAVE any pre-requisites. At least this you have to beat five people in battles arguably tougher than Gym battles given that they're not as restricted in their types (and being a BW contest and all).

    I also think the Token thing could be taken to more than just a one-time event, if it's received well, but I suppose that's at the discretion of the people running it.
    LD isn't the highest rank in the battle section. The two aren't comparable.
    No, LD isn't the highest rank, but I'd definitely say LD > Gym Leader. So, that makes it the 2nd highest rank. The 2nd highest rank in Contest is being a division leader. By that logic, we have to make the Divisions LD-standard?

    Being Contest Champ doesn't necessarily have to be at the same difficulty as being Battle Champ, just because they both have 'Champion' in their name and they're both top of their respective sections. It's not like every company in the world has exactly the same requirements to becoming head of that company - sure, they might look for similar traits (hard-working, organised, etc...) but then, they'll all have something different they look for as well, and becoming head of a smaller company would probably be easier than becoming head of a larger company.

    I kinda feel like you're not giving some of the Division Leaders enough credit to defend their Division in the first place :s
    Champ > E4 > LD

    LD isn't even related to the gym system anyway, so again, I don't really see why you're using it as a piece in the argument. Also, about motivation to defend your division/gym, I'm pretty sure most gym leaders aren't thinking, "I need to prevent these people from battling the E4", but instead they prioritize their own gym record instead. I'm pretty sure division leaders would hold a similar position on this.
    I didn't mean motivation, I meant how you were saying "Contest Champ will just be passed around quickly by the same people", implying the Division Leaders will surrender their ribbons easily.

    The point I'm trying to make bringing LD into it is your point is "It'll be too easy to get". LD is even easier to get given that there's no pre-requisites, yet we still have that position. So, that's not really a valid point.

    I'm all for adding more Divisions, too.
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    Default Re: Contest Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanTreeFrog View Post
    Then why don't I just add the five other Division Leaders to complete the original set and install a 'Grand Three or Five'?
    I don't think there's been enough Division activity to justify adding more Divisions just yet. Also, I die a little inside when people suggest adding more Gym-esque features, and we can't even field the current leagues.

    Quote Originally Posted by PichuBoy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PichuBoy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Monbrey View Post
    I definitely have to be against Tokens as a permanent thing, otherwise we've basically got two permanent contest currencies, both of which can be traded for basically the same stuff. CC can be used in the contest store, but can now be traded for Pokemon too. Tokens have a select list of contest goods, and can be traded for Pokemon. With a time limit, it pushes people to contest a lot, collect as many as they can and aim for those high tier Pokemon. Otherwise they can just keep contesting and claiming top tier Pokemon endlessly.
    Oh, yeah, definitely not simultaneously. I just meant I don't see why it couldn't be an annual or biannual thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PichuBoy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fawkes. View Post
    afaik the only ones doing it are Chainreaction and ATF.
    ):

    I think a Contest Champ is a good idea - so what if it's too easy to get? As someone else said, LD doesn't even HAVE any pre-requisites. At least this you have to beat five people in battles arguably tougher than Gym battles given that they're not as restricted in their types (and being a BW contest and all).

    I also think the Token thing could be taken to more than just a one-time event, if it's received well, but I suppose that's at the discretion of the people running it.
    LD isn't the highest rank in the battle section. The two aren't comparable.
    No, LD isn't the highest rank, but I'd definitely say LD > Gym Leader. So, that makes it the 2nd highest rank. The 2nd highest rank in Contest is being a division leader. By that logic, we have to make the Divisions LD-standard?

    Being Contest Champ doesn't necessarily have to be at the same difficulty as being Battle Champ, just because they both have 'Champion' in their name and they're both top of their respective sections. It's not like every company in the world has exactly the same requirements to becoming head of that company - sure, they might look for similar traits (hard-working, organised, etc...) but then, they'll all have something different they look for as well, and becoming head of a smaller company would probably be easier than becoming head of a larger company.

    I kinda feel like you're not giving some of the Division Leaders enough credit to defend their Division in the first place :s
    Champ > E4 > LD

    LD isn't even related to the gym system anyway, so again, I don't really see why you're using it as a piece in the argument. Also, about motivation to defend your division/gym, I'm pretty sure most gym leaders aren't thinking, "I need to prevent these people from battling the E4", but instead they prioritize their own gym record instead. I'm pretty sure division leaders would hold a similar position on this.
    I didn't mean motivation, I meant how you were saying "Contest Champ will just be passed around quickly by the same people", implying the Division Leaders will surrender their ribbons easily.

    The point I'm trying to make bringing LD into it is your point is "It'll be too easy to get". LD is even easier to get given that there's no pre-requisites, yet we still have that position. So, that's not really a valid point.

    I'm all for adding more Divisions, too.
    What I just said. Also, does there really need to be a "barrier" to Contest Champ? The hardest part should be beating them, not getting to them.
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    Default Re: Contest Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by ChainReaction01
    What I just said. Also, does there really need to be a "barrier" to Contest Champ? The hardest part should be beating them, not getting to them.
    Lets say there are two or three people who are really good at contests and are of roughly equal skill. How do you make it any more difficult for one of them to dethrone the other in a manner that sets it apart from a normal battle?

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    Default Re: Contest Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChainReaction01
    What I just said. Also, does there really need to be a "barrier" to Contest Champ? The hardest part should be beating them, not getting to them.
    Lets say there are two or three people who are really good at contests and are of roughly equal skill. How do you make it any more difficult for one of them to dethrone the other in a manner that sets it apart from a normal battle?
    Okay, that's fair. Maybe make it so the Champion can control the battle rules, similar to how a Gym Leader can (idr if the real Champion can do this or not). That way, when you've become the Contest Champ, you get a reward for being on the defense.
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    Default Re: Contest Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by ChainReaction01 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChainReaction01
    What I just said. Also, does there really need to be a "barrier" to Contest Champ? The hardest part should be beating them, not getting to them.
    Lets say there are two or three people who are really good at contests and are of roughly equal skill. How do you make it any more difficult for one of them to dethrone the other in a manner that sets it apart from a normal battle?
    Okay, that's fair. Maybe make it so the Champion can control the battle rules, similar to how a Gym Leader can (idr if the real Champion can do this or not). That way, when you've become the Contest Champ, you get a reward for being on the defense.
    I'd be content with Contest Champ being in control of the rules I suppose. Not like I use the contest section anyway...

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    Default Re: Contest Thoughts

    Honestly, only thing that is stopping me from doing BW Contests is the lack of judges. I actually like them and the rewards for them are great. I know there's a few like Buoy and SLC that are almost there, but they've been almost there for a while, and the fact that they've been waiting isn't even their fault for the most part.

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    Default Re: Contest Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Synthesis View Post
    Honestly, only thing that is stopping me from doing BW Contests is the lack of judges. I actually like them and the rewards for them are great. I know there's a few like Buoy and SLC that are almost there, but they've been almost there for a while, and the fact that they've been waiting isn't even their fault for the most part.
    BLAME ASH K :>

    Okay, I haven't made a post with my own opinions, so here goes nothing.

    1) The pay for the winners of division battlers sound fair, and it makes them a little more appealing to everyone. Like you said, putting the price between super and hyper sounds just about right. I haven't really got a lot more to say on the point.

    2) I don't think adding more divisions just yet is such a good idea, otherwise when the newer members join and see the empty divisions they will be given a negative impression of the entire contests section. There wasn't a huge rush of members to sign-up for the position of division leader (iirc, there were only six) and then this will bring in the problem that when people are striving to become the contest champion, they will be unable to get all of the ribbons in a particular division. Keep it at 5 for the moment, otherwise add divisions to the conference which is already there. If we expand the conference, there's nothing stopping us to be able to transfer a particular division to another conference.

    However, I feel like a champion position is necessary, otherwise there is little point of the divisions if there is nothing to aim for. We could just make it simple, so that when one person defeats all five divisions they automatically become champion. If this is deemed to easy for said person, we could always put an experience co-ordinator as a temporary champion - ATF, for example. Also I dislike the idea of a contest E4 while we only have 5 divisions. Think about it - there are only four members of the E4 for regular battles and there are 40 gyms (not including the Orange Islands). Maybe we could introduce a tier system somewhat similar to the E4 when there is more division activity - the 'Normal Rank' tier would have 4 or 5 'easier' leaders, and once those are defeated you can challenge the 'Super Rank' tier which has 3 or 4, and so on. The only problem I see with this is that the higher tier you're in, the less likely you are to actually get challenges.

    3) I like it, and the prizes seem both balanced and achievable. The earning of them sounds good too. I also think it should be a one-time thing, idk why.

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    Default Re: Contest Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by SLC04 View Post
    2) I don't think adding more divisions just yet is such a good idea, otherwise when the newer members join and see the empty divisions they will be given a negative impression of the entire contests section. There wasn't a huge rush of members to sign-up for the position of division leader (iirc, there were only six) and then this will bring in the problem that when people are striving to become the contest champion, they will be unable to get all of the ribbons in a particular division. Keep it at 5 for the moment, otherwise add divisions to the conference which is already there. If we expand the conference, there's nothing stopping us to be able to transfer a particular division to another conference.

    However, I feel like a champion position is necessary, otherwise there is little point of the divisions if there is nothing to aim for. We could just make it simple, so that when one person defeats all five divisions they automatically become champion. If this is deemed to easy for said person, we could always put an experience co-ordinator as a temporary champion - ATF, for example. Also I dislike the idea of a contest E4 while we only have 5 divisions. Think about it - there are only four members of the E4 for regular battles and there are 40 gyms (not including the Orange Islands). Maybe we could introduce a tier system somewhat similar to the E4 when there is more division activity - the 'Normal Rank' tier would have 4 or 5 'easier' leaders, and once those are defeated you can challenge the 'Super Rank' tier which has 3 or 4, and so on. The only problem I see with this is that the higher tier you're in, the less likely you are to actually get challenges.
    You can't really get an accurate idea of how many people are interested, because applications only went on for two days. I was thinking of applying for one, and thought I'd have about a week to decide and prepare an application, but ATF literally did it first come first served, bar you and Buoy. Considering most people hated me at the time for always 'kicking up a fuss', I just didn't say anything. The interest in the Winter festival shows that at least 16 people are interested in BW Contests. I think we could add a few more Divisions, then if they don't fill, just remove them. No harm done.

    What I feel needs to happen in general is for more of the staff to make an effort. WTP openly admitted he doesn't do Contests, but I'm wondering whether he's ever tried a BW Contest, and whether many others of the staff have for that matter. For a lot of people, the attitude has always been "lol contests are lame", and any newbies take on that attitude. If the staff (and just other members, for that matter) at least tried to take an interest in it, that could go a long way. A lot of the current refs could easily adapt to judging BW Contests (even if they're like gman and only judge BW, not RSE/DPP), because there's not a huge deal more you need to consider: attribute compatibility, hearts and PP.
    Last edited by KidBeano; 18th March 2012 at 03:28 PM.
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    Default Re: Contest Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by PichuBoy View Post
    You can't really get an accurate idea of how many people are interested, because applications only went on for two days. I was thinking of applying for one, and thought I'd have about a week to decide and prepare an application, but ATF literally did it first come first served, bar you and Buoy. Considering most people hated me at the time for always 'kicking up a fuss', I just didn't say anything. The interest in the Winter festival shows that at least 16 people are interested in BW Contests. I think we could add a few more Divisions, then if they don't fill, just remove them. No harm done.

    What I feel needs to happen in general is for more of the staff to make an effort. WTP openly admitted he doesn't do Contests, but I'm wondering whether he's ever tried a BW Contest, and whether many others of the staff have for that matter. For a lot of people, the attitude has always been "lol contests are lame", and any newbies take on that attitude. If the staff (and just other members, for that matter) at least tried to take an interest in it, that could go a long way. A lot of the current refs could easily adapt to judging BW Contests (even if they're like gman and only judge BW, not RSE/DPP), because there's not a huge deal more you need to consider: attribute compatibility, hearts and PP.
    Bro, why you always gotta attack the staff? I have tried contests. I didn't like them. That is the end of my relationship with contests. You don't seem particularly active in the National Park, do you hate the Park? The answer to that question is no(at least I hope so ._.). You also seem to only be acknowledging the staff that isn't a proponent of the Contest section. Chainy and Winter have both taken an interest in B/W Contests. They both petitioned FD to allow B/W Contests to count in the Game Board competition. When the Division League was approved by the staff, it was met with nothing but a bit of skepticism on its ability to succeed. Nobody didn't want it, they were merely unsure of the contest sections ability to maintain its activity. Don't say the staff is disdainful of contests. I suggest you don't bring this up again.

    Anyway, I re-read this thread and I realized there are a few things I haven't addressed already so...

    The Ability of Division Leaders to Defend their divisions - I was in no way saying they were unable to do so. What you people appear to be ignoring is the fact that once their division is defeated, their division is no longer an obstacle in the challenger's path to Champion, nor will it ever be again. So once a few people beat all 5 divisions, the Champ spot will be a constant struggle between however many people make it that far.

    The Constant Comparison of LD to Divisions - LD has no place in this discussion. It is not related to the Battling Sections gym league, which is more or less, what the Division league is based off of.


    Anyway, my biggest issue with this whole thing is, again, activity. The Divisions have barely been out for a month and I don't thing we can properly gauge whether or not now is the time for this.

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    Default Re: Contest Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by We Taste Pies... View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PichuBoy View Post
    You can't really get an accurate idea of how many people are interested, because applications only went on for two days. I was thinking of applying for one, and thought I'd have about a week to decide and prepare an application, but ATF literally did it first come first served, bar you and Buoy. Considering most people hated me at the time for always 'kicking up a fuss', I just didn't say anything. The interest in the Winter festival shows that at least 16 people are interested in BW Contests. I think we could add a few more Divisions, then if they don't fill, just remove them. No harm done.

    What I feel needs to happen in general is for more of the staff to make an effort. WTP openly admitted he doesn't do Contests, but I'm wondering whether he's ever tried a BW Contest, and whether many others of the staff have for that matter. For a lot of people, the attitude has always been "lol contests are lame", and any newbies take on that attitude. If the staff (and just other members, for that matter) at least tried to take an interest in it, that could go a long way. A lot of the current refs could easily adapt to judging BW Contests (even if they're like gman and only judge BW, not RSE/DPP), because there's not a huge deal more you need to consider: attribute compatibility, hearts and PP.
    Bro, why you always gotta attack the staff? I have tried contests. I didn't like them. That is the end of my relationship with contests. You don't seem particularly active in the National Park, do you hate the Park? The answer to that question is no(at least I hope so ._.). You also seem to only be acknowledging the staff that isn't a proponent of the Contest section. Chainy and Winter have both taken an interest in B/W Contests. They both petitioned FD to allow B/W Contests to count in the Game Board competition. When the Division League was approved by the staff, it was met with nothing but a bit of skepticism on its ability to succeed. Nobody didn't want it, they were merely unsure of the contest sections ability to maintain its activity. Don't say the staff is disdainful of contests. I suggest you don't bring this up again.

    Anyway, I re-read this thread and I realized there are a few things I haven't addressed already so...

    The Ability of Division Leaders to Defend their divisions - I was in no way saying they were unable to do so. What you people appear to be ignoring is the fact that once their division is defeated, their division is no longer an obstacle in the challenger's path to Champion, nor will it ever be again. So once a few people beat all 5 divisions, the Champ spot will be a constant struggle between however many people make it that far.

    The Constant Comparison of LD to Divisions - LD has no place in this discussion. It is not related to the Battling Sections gym league, which is more or less, what the Division league is based off of.


    Anyway, my biggest issue with this whole thing is, again, activity. The Divisions have barely been out for a month and I don't thing we can properly gauge whether or not now is the time for this.
    Where was I attacking? :/

    You say you tried contests - have you tried a BW Contest specifically? There's a huge difference between RSE/DPP and BW.

    Now, the thing you did in that entire paragraph that I will only once ask politely that you don't do again: please don't twist my words. I'm fully aware that Chainy and Winter are avid Coordinators. I specifically said "more of the staff". As in, not just the ones that do. I also never said that the staff hated contests, nor did I say that they were the only people who do so. I'm saying that if people (staff and members alike) actually put in the effort to try contests (as you have), and THEN make their judgement, instead of just thinking 'lol contests' like some people seem to, they might actually find they like them. Speaking from experience here.
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    Default Re: Contest Thoughts

    Yay! Discussion! Now if only more people would join in...

    Anyway, I'm going to summarize the stuff so far:

    1) Making the changes to the Division League in terms of payout and earning ribbons is fine and has the go ahead.

    2) People like the idea of a Contest Champion, but disagree as to whether it's too easy to earn and acquire. The main factor behind this is activity and concern that the league hasn't had enough time to develop. So I see two paths here: |1| Wait to add a Contest Champion until we add more divisions/elite four? and this will be based off activity. |2| Just add the Champion as is with nothing else required for the time being. |3| Just don't add a Champion period because it will never equal the battle section.

    3) People seem to be in agreement on this as a special event for a month or two.
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    Default Re: Contest Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanTreeFrog View Post
    Yay! Discussion! Now if only more people would join in...

    Anyway, I'm going to summarize the stuff so far:

    1) Making the changes to the Division League in terms of payout and earning ribbons is fine and has the go ahead.

    2) People like the idea of a Contest Champion, but disagree as to whether it's too easy to earn and acquire. The main factor behind this is activity and concern that the league hasn't had enough time to develop. So I see two paths here: |1| Wait to add a Contest Champion until we add more divisions/elite four? and this will be based off activity. |2| Just add the Champion as is with nothing else required for the time being. |3| Just don't add a Champion period because it will never equal the battle section.

    3) People seem to be in agreement on this as a special event for a month or two.
    This is satisfactory to me.

    Also, MK. Its pretty hard to believe that you weren't taking a baseless jab at the staff if you say its more than just the staff that are demeaning the contest section, but expressly mention the staff. When you said, "more of the staff", it seems to be excluding all staff members but ATF, the only staff member you mentioned beforehand. In addition, I don't really see how getting the rest of the staff involved will make any more difference than it would to get normal members involved. Its just more people in the system. We still have a hand in how it is run. Nobody is putting it down. Don't worry too much about how we do things UNTIL we mess up, not before. If there was an inter-staff issue, ATF would be right behind you on this one.

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