Thread: New Additions and Changes

Okay contest people, we have reached that point where changes must be addressed, and here they are.

The biggest and most important change will the (late) release of B/W contests, called so because I like the name.

Instead of following the cartridge style of contest game-play, this new style will take roots from the anime series. In this style there will be two different rounds of play, each one unique from the last.

In the first round, coordinators will each send their Pokemon to be judged based upon appearance. This will be determined by the formula: ([(B+C+F)/2+A]*S) - (G+H)

A = Primary attribute
B and C = Secondary attributes
G and H equal incompatible attributes
S = 1.1 if the Pokémon holds a Scarf associated with the contest's primary attribute; 1.05 if the Pokémon holds a Scarf associated with one of the contest's secondary attributes; 1 otherwise.
This will be the first score your Pokemon obtains and it will account for one third of your score.

The battle stage will now commence. This is the final round in which coordinators will battle with their Pokemon in contest-style to win. Each coordinator will use at least two (max six) Pokemon for the duration of the contest. The match will be declared over when one person can no longer battle. The person who won the match is not declared the winner though, it is based off points. Points are obtained by defeating tier Pokemon, completing the match, stats, and by using tiered moves. Contests will be judged just like a normal battle would be with damage and effects, but a score must be kept to find out the winner.

The point system will be as follows:

One of the ways to obtain points other than moves will be to KO a Pokemon. Pokemon are broken up into four different tiers. These tiers are to reflect the importance of knocking out higher ranked Pokemon over less powerful ones. This also means that a person who uses basic Pokemon can still have a chance to win a contest.

KOing a tiered Pokemon will yield points according to what tier they belong too. Although a Pokemon is considered out of play once it runs out of points, it is not considered a KO for your team, meaning you will not get the points for that Pokemon

50 points: Tier 1 Pokemon
40 points: Tier 2 Pokemon
30 points: Tier 3 Pokemon
20 points: Tier 4 Pokemon

Tier system: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CM-S2cMB&pli=1&key=0AlQTB2nJrja0dEMwdHVIZlZJb1VpSEJZemRPNllLbWc&hl=en_US &authkey=CM-S2cMB#gid=0

Another way to obtain points is by winning the match or completing a combo KO.

Win: 200 points
Loss: 100 points
KO a tier 1 Pokemon with a tier 4: 50 points
KO the opposite team without losing a Pokemon: 200 points
Combo KO: #*10
A combo KO is where your Pokemon knocks out two or more Pokemon without fainting or switching out

These points will be added to the points obtained from moves to determine the winner. The final equation will look like this:

P+(B*2)

P = Primary Score
B = Battle Score

In place of typed contests, types are now attributed to this type chart. There are a few move exceptions, but when in doubt this is right.

Types:

Normal - Cute
Flying - Cute
Electric - Cute

Fighting - Cool
Dragon - Cool
Dark - Cool
Bug - Cool

Ground - Tough
Rock - Tough
Steel - Tough

Water - Beauty
Ice - Beauty
Fire - Beauty

Grass - Smart
Psychic - Smart
Ghost - Smart
Poison - Smart

This type chart also effects the use of moves. For instance, you send a Muk out, which would be classified as a Smart type. This means that whenever it uses a Smart move the price of the move would go down by 10 points. If it uses a Beauty or Tough the price for those moves will increase by 10.

If you send a Pokemon that is dual typed for the duration of the contest you can only pick one of its types to be represented instead of both. Example, Infernape. IN battle it will still count as fire/fighting, but for appeal purposes you can only use one to represent your Pokemon.

When Pokemon are sent they are given a base move limit of four hundred. Each move costs of a certain amount of points to use. A Pokemon is considered fainted if it runs out of points and can’t move.

Move points are determined by their appeal.
Tier 1 - 10
Tier 2 - 20
Tier 3 - 30
Tier 4 - 40
Tier 5 - 50

------------

Okay, there is the biggest change. Now onto the other changes.

First, Contest Credits will no longer be available to those who compete in R/S/E and D/P/Pt. They will handed out Only for B/W effective in one week. If a contest is started but not finished by the deadline the old rules will still count.

Second, in order to judge the new B/W contests you have to be a certified ref, otherwise you're stuck to the old system.

Thirdly, there will now be a Judge period, so mark your logs as such.

Fourth, when somebody wins a B/W style the number of ribbons handed out will be the number of Pokemon divided by two rounded down.
1-3 = 1
4-5 = 2
6-6 = 3

Fifth, new money system:

Normal Rank
Winner: $2,000 + $1,500 CC + Ribbon
Loser: $1,000 + $0,500 CC

Super Rank
Winner: $2,000 + $2,000 CC + Ribbon
Loser: $1,000 + $1,000 CC

Hyper Rank
Winner: $3,000 + $2,000 CC + Ribbon
Loser: $1,500 + $1,000 CC

Master Rank
Winner: $4,000 + $2,000 CC + Ribbon
Loser: $2,000 + $1,000 CC

Sixth, Double Contests as a system will be void, you can only do them in B/W and they will function like a double battle in the URPG.

Seventh, new combos but they are vastly limited. That might change in the future but don't hold your breath.

Moves can be found here.

If you have any questions post here or PM myself directly.

Substitute --> Focus Punch
Rain Dance --> Hurricane
Sunny Day --> Moonlight|Synthesis|Solarbeam
Hail --> Blizzard
Fire Pledge <--> Water Pledge|Grass Pledge
Fusion Flare <--> Fusion Bolt
Endure --> Reversal|Flail
Taunt --> Counter|Magic Coat
Ingrain <--> Leech Seed
Scratch --> Slash
Shell Smash --> Amnesia|Iron Defense
Slam --> Heavy Slam
Sludge --> Sludge Bomb
Confusion --> Psychic
Rest --> Snore|Sleep Talk
Spikes <--> Toxic Spikes
Stockpile --> Spit Up|Swallow
Swagger <--> Flatter
Hypnosis --> Dream Eater|Nightmare
ThunderBolt --> Thunder
Flamethrower --> Fire Blast
Surf --> Hydro Pump
Quiver Dance --> Baton Pass
Reflect <--> Light Screen
Defense Curl --> Rollout
Thunder Punch <--> Fire Punch|Ice Punch
Ice Fang <---> Thunder Fang|Fire Fang
Mega Punch <--> Mega Kick
Jump Kick --> Hi Jump Kick

A combo will double the appeal score of the move completing the combo.

so I have to be a ref to be able to judge these?

Efff that...

At least ATF is trying to improve contests

KOing a Tiered mon seems to be backwards, admittedly.

And Buoysel, ATF has done a ton more than you... Criticism of new ideas might be good, but raging at it helps no one.

About a Mon's particular contest type and move types, I have a bit of confusion; namely in that what appears to be a rule is laid out more like an example (with Muk being Smart type lowering costs of Smart moves and raising the opposite). Through this, I assume that a Pokémon's Contest Type lowers the price of moves of that type it uses by 10, and raises the price of its opposite types by 10 also? Since I don't see a specific thing on this other than the example (though I may be completely blind), I would like some clarification please.

Also, when getting into move types, you label it as "In place of typed contests", while in the appearance scoring, you refer to the contest type. Since BW contests seem more based on appeals battling, I think it makes since to have the primary based on the Pokémon's strengths itself rather than a chosen contest type, but that may make deciding ribbons tricky I suppose...

One more question: is every Pokémon to be used in the battle portion used in the primary, or one "lead" Pokémon, or what? I can see it going both ways, since the numbers of Pokémon used in the battle portion are only referred to after the entire appearance score description, but at the same time all the Pokémon are participating in the contest as a whole.

Originally Posted by Buoysel.

Tier system is shit/biased imo - "less powerful ones"? Since when did power matter in contests? In previous contest styles as well as in games and anime, there weren't any "tiers" - people got the same amount of points no matter what Pokémon they KO'd. This just makes contests more exclusive to those who have rarer, "more powerful" 'mons. Battles are absolute bullshit, give people who like using 'mons in a strategic kind of contest no chance whatsoever - say, for instance, I use Chimecho. She's a Tier 4 'mon and she is truthfully not that good in battle. She has no chance of beating a Tier 1 'mon, e.g. Porygon-Z. How the hell is contest activity going to raise if you're limiting the potential of their Pokémon even more? imo, that's complete and utter bullshit.

Those tiers are based off Pokemon that are ideally the best in the game in terms of numerous factors that were taken into account. Furthermore, your argument beats itself and really makes no bearing on the contest at all. To start, the power idea comes with leveling the playing field slightly. Your same argument about you using Chimecho to beat a bad battle really has no bearing, KOing a Pokemon does make you a winner, it's just an additional way to make points. Besides, if a person is a crappy battler they don't have to use higher tier mon.

Secondly, what's the purpose of contest credits NOT being handed out in R/S/E or D/P/Pt contests? You're still handing out money, but no contest credits? How is that supposed to encourage people to buy stuff from the contest store if they don't actually want to go through the trouble of doing B/W contests? How are they supposed to continue doing the other two styles of contests without spending money that they'd rather save for other sections? Contest credits were most likely created for Contests, so as far as I know, withdrawing them as a reward from R/S/E and D/P/Pt contests is p. much a stupid idea and almost counter-productive.

I removed CC for one reason from those styles, those styles are too easy to win. Everyone has voiced that opinion before and how easy contests are. B/W changes that because of the battle element. I'm not going to reward people with extra money when in reality they just go through the motion. This point will not change, period.

Third, you have to be qualified to be a referee in the URPG to judge B/W Contests. Let's look at it this way: how many of our judges are certified refs? And of those very few who are, who actively judges? Then from a referee point of view: how many of them actually coordinate without being asked to? How many actually want to be a judge and not just so it can be their fourth and final profession? Exactly.

Yes, I understand this point, but in the long haul it is probably better. Reffing is more popular than judging, and those who ref are active than most judges. And as I said before, this adds a battle element which URPGers enjoy and is a proven method.

Finally, what happened to the ideas about the inclusion of abilities, probably the only idea that other judges actually got to suggest ideas for, and the majority of them were still brought up by yourself. I think you should have at least posted in the URPG Judge group so that people could see what you have posted now, and point out certain criticisms that they think should be addressed, as judges are really the only kind of people who care about contests, bar a few non-judges who do try to encourage contest activity. I know that you're the leader and everything, but you could at least make your actions a little less secretive than this to prevent complaints. I know you're trying to improve contest activity and contests as a whole, but I don't think that doing a lot of this behind everyone's back and springing it up suddenly for everyone to see is the best way of going about it.

You're wrong on a few point here. I DID consult with other people and I had a couple test the idea out. Not to mention, last time I checked you were not a senior Judge. And the reason I didn't inform the other Judges is because I had been asking for ideas and comments on idea since I became leader, I only got a few suggestion and ideas. And when I tried to follow them up I got no responses. Besides, you're being included now.

Originally Posted by Siless

KOing a Tiered mon seems to be backwards, admittedly.

And Buoysel, ATF has done a ton more than you... Criticism of new ideas might be good, but raging at it helps no one.

About a Mon's particular contest type and move types, I have a bit of confusion; namely in that what appears to be a rule is laid out more like an example (with Muk being Smart type lowering costs of Smart moves and raising the opposite). Through this, I assume that a Pokémon's Contest Type lowers the price of moves of that type it uses by 10, and raises the price of its opposite types by 10 also? Since I don't see a specific thing on this other than the example (though I may be completely blind), I would like some clarification please.

Yeah, I can see the confusion. This was a way to keep the types inside the contest. Basically, your Pokemon can be represented by one type. So let's say Cool. That means when your Pokemon uses a cool type move the cost of the move would go down by ten. If the Pokemon used a Cute or Smart the price would go up by ten. If it was Tough or Beauty the price would stay the same.

I hope that helps.

Also, when getting into move types, you label it as "In place of typed contests", while in the appearance scoring, you refer to the contest type. Since BW contests seem more based on appeals battling, I think it makes since to have the primary based on the Pokémon's strengths itself rather than a chosen contest type, but that may make deciding ribbons tricky I suppose...

I think my wording may have muddled this topic up, it is supposed to be based on a contest type, which I tried to match to the strengths. Hence all Poison being smart. If I misunderstood you or am off topic report and I'll try again.

One more question: is every Pokémon to be used in the battle portion used in the primary, or one "lead" Pokémon, or what? I can see it going both ways, since the numbers of Pokémon used in the battle portion are only referred to after the entire appearance score description, but at the same time all the Pokémon are participating in the contest as a whole.

Every Pokemon used will have to be judged in the primary round. Later on I might add a clause so you only have to pick one or something.

I have a complaint with the use of the (Pokémon) tiering system. Namely, it was designed with the idea that a lower tier number is better, and in this, it seems to be rewarding use of powerful mons in URPG by making them worth less to KO for your opponent and giving them a bonus when they KO a significantly weaker Pokémon (I don't think it was intended to give 100 points when a Zam KOs an Unown, for a specific example). So are the tier scores (and bonuses for KOing tier 4 w/ tier 1) supposed to be the opposite?

Originally Posted by Siless

I have a complaint with the use of the (Pokémon) tiering system. Namely, it was designed with the idea that a lower tier number is better, and in this, it seems to be rewarding use of powerful mons in URPG by making them worth less to KO for your opponent and giving them a bonus when they KO a significantly weaker Pokémon (I don't think it was intended to give 100 points when a Zam KOs an Unown, for a specific example). So are the tier scores (and bonuses for KOing tier 4 w/ tier 1) supposed to be the opposite?

You gain more points for KOing a higher tiered Pokemon over a lower tiered Pokemon. So if an Alakazam Ko'ed an unknown it would only gain 20 points for doing so, while the Unknown would get 50 for killing 'Zam.

Originally Posted by AmericanTreeFrog

You gain more points for KOing a higher tiered Pokemon over a lower tiered Pokemon. So if an Alakazam Ko'ed an unknown it would only gain 20 points for doing so, while the Unknown would get 50 for killing 'Zam.

The thing is, here, it's listed as if Tier 4 is the highest tier (giving 50 points, giving bonus for a tier 1 beating a tier 4), but in the linked spreadsheet it's listed as Tier 1 being the highest (most of the pseudos are in it, and probably a better example, Tier 4 contains the likes of Unown, so that makes it highly doubtful that tier 4 is top tier).

EDIT: Oh, and are battle clauses such as sleep clause able to be applied to BW Contests since they're contest-battles? (This is less a serious recommendation about the clauses and how they're applied to this and more of random thinking, but thought I should bring it up.)

Originally Posted by Siless

The thing is, here, it's listed as if Tier 4 is the highest tier (giving 50 points, giving bonus for a tier 1 beating a tier 4), but in the linked spreadsheet it's listed as Tier 1 being the highest (most of the pseudos are in it, and probably a better example, Tier 4 contains the likes of Unown, so that makes it highly doubtful that tier 4 is top tier).

Oh I see, yeah it would be like that. Tier 1 would be the highest, I'll edit that right away.

EDIT: Oh, and are battle clauses such as sleep clause able to be applied to BW Contests since they're contest-battles? (This is less a serious recommendation about the clauses and how they're applied to this and more of random thinking, but thought I should bring it up.)

Yes they are.

Ok, so a few more questions popped up:

In the beginning of the BW Contest Moves thread, it says that it lists the moves effects for RSE contests. Just a typo, but yeah.

Nature Power is listed as being Tier 4 and +45 points. Does this mean that Nature Power (and other calling moves) use their own costs and effects instead of whatever move they call (so I would be calling Tri-Attack in a building terrain, but with a 40 point base move cost and a +45 appeals gain instead of the 30 cost/+30)?

Can a Pokémon's contest type reduce the cost of a move to 0 (so tier 1 moves of the same contest type are free to use)?

If a Pokémon uses a move such as Morning Sun to recover Move Points, but only has just enough to be able to use the move, is it considered to have hit 0 Move Points and be unable to battle before the move point recovery? And do Move Point "knockouts" occur exactly when the Pokémon hits 0, or at the end of a turn (so a Pokémon that uses its last move points can still be Knocked Out in the normal manner)?

Wish is a healing move, like the others with a gain move points effect, but it is delayed. Would the recovery be with the HP recovery or at the time of the use of the move?

If a Pokémon is somehow unable to use a move with a cost lower than its movepoints (a Pokémon with 10 points being completely Imprisoned, so having no move other than Struggle, which is 30 points), is it knocked out (in the way that no move point mons are)? Can it instead switch out or somehow attempt to use the higher cost move (and either fail or be knocked out at the end of it)?

Sorry if this is a bit much. My mind's been running wild as I study for both this and ref tests, so yeah.

Okay, ATF. I'm sorry for my initial point, and I'm thankful you explained it to me. I was trying not to be harsh, so sorry for that. ^^;

Oh cool a new game.

Originally Posted by Siless

Ok, so a few more questions popped up:

In the beginning of the BW Contest Moves thread, it says that it lists the moves effects for RSE contests. Just a typo, but yeah.

Fixed.

Nature Power is listed as being Tier 4 and +45 points. Does this mean that Nature Power (and other calling moves) use their own costs and effects instead of whatever move they call (so I would be calling Tri-Attack in a building terrain, but with a 40 point base move cost and a +45 appeals gain instead of the 30 cost/+30)?

For moves like these I did a simplified version, so the appeal score will always be +45, it will not lower or rise. So in the battle the Pokemon would use Tri-Attack, but you would only get the points for nature power.

Can a Pokémon's contest type reduce the cost of a move to 0 (so tier 1 moves of the same contest type are free to use)?

Yes.

If a Pokémon uses a move such as Morning Sun to recover Move Points, but only has just enough to be able to use the move, is it considered to have hit 0 Move Points and be unable to battle before the move point recovery? And do Move Point "knockouts" occur exactly when the Pokémon hits 0, or at the end of a turn (so a Pokémon that uses its last move points can still be Knocked Out in the normal manner)?

If it has enough points to use the move then it can, the move recovery would happen immediately. Move knockouts will occur will at the end of the turn.

Wish is a healing move, like the others with a gain move points effect, but it is delayed. Would the recovery be with the HP recovery or at the time of the use of the move?

The points would activate at the same time the health is received.

If a Pokémon is somehow unable to use a move with a cost lower than its movepoints (a Pokémon with 10 points being completely Imprisoned, so having no move other than Struggle, which is 30 points), is it knocked out (in the way that no move point mons are)? Can it instead switch out or somehow attempt to use the higher cost move (and either fail or be knocked out at the end of it)?

You can switch out, but you cannot use a move if you do not have the required points for it. But if you can only use struggle, you will do so until you die|switch|or run out of points, even if you don't have the points needed.

Sorry if this is a bit much. My mind's been running wild as I study for both this and ref tests, so yeah.

Nah, people need to ask questions so you're asking for them. Besides, this is more of a FAQ thread anyway.

Originally Posted by Buoysel.

Okay, ATF. I'm sorry for my initial point, and I'm thankful you explained it to me. I was trying not to be harsh, so sorry for that. ^^;

No problem, you can post your opinion if you want too. I'm willing to concede/change on a few points but some are staying.