Thread: Reffing FAQ

Originally Posted by WinterVines

@Pidge
@Ash K.

What am I, a tree? ._.

Also, I thought we knew this already...?

The 'Life Orb' item setting in the calculator calcs Life Orb incorrectly (only by ~1HP, but every HP counts).

Life Orb (B/W) - Smogon University

Whenever a Pokemon holding a Life Orb successfully uses a damaging attack, that attack deals 1.3x its normal damage, rounded down...

The key part is bolded. Normal damage implies the output from using the attack without a LO, NOT BP.

Hypothetical situation:
Starmie vs Gallade. Starmie @ Life Orb, Gallade @ nothing relevant

Starmie used Hydro Pump.

Way #1 of reffing it (WRONG)
120 * 1.3 = 156

Put into calc: 156BP, Water, Special

Gallade's HP = 51.17% (174HP)

Way #2 of reffing it (SUPPOSEDLY CODED CORRECTLY, BUT WRONG)
Set 'Life Orb' as Starmie's item
Put into calc: 120BP, Water, Special

Gallade's HP = 51.17% (174HP)

Way #3 of reffing it (RIGHT)
Put into the calc: 120BP, Water, Special
Attack Gallade.

Damage output = 129

129 * 1.3 = 167.7 ==> 167

Put -167 into the Damage/Recovery box
Click -HP

Gallade's HP = 50.88% (173HP)

---

Idk if this is just a missing 'floor' function, but yeah. It's only a matter of time before this causes a row.

Originally Posted by Buoysel.

Not sure if this is the right thread to post it, but Power Split cannot be calculated correctly on Monbrey's calc or Zoaa's calc. I was reffing a fake battle to practise for a ref test, and this came up.

Shuckle used Power Split on Bidoof, which makes their attack stats both 154 and special attack stats both 144. However, even if you manually input these values into the stats boxes, the damage values remain the same -- same going for when the stats are boosted (Simple Bidoof using Curse; putting in 2 beside the value multiplies the original stat before Power Split by 2, instead of the modified stat). Manually inputting 308 (154 x2) and then using an attack also yields the same damage.

For example (Bidoof has Simple in all of these examples):
Scenario 1: Bidoof vs. Shuckle. Bidoof uses Tackle, Shuckle uses Rock Polish. This leaves Shuckle with 96.31%.

Scenario 2: Bidoof is switched in, Shuckle uses Power Split. Next turn, Bidoof uses Tackle with its modified attack stat of 154. This still leaves Shuckle with 96.31%.

Scenario 3: Bidoof is switched in, Shuckle uses Power Split. Next turn, Bidoof uses Curse while Shuckle uses Rock Polish. Bidoof now supposedly has an attack stat of 308. Next turn, Shuckle uses Rock Polish, Bidoof uses Tackle. However, even with its modified stat boosted, Shuckle still ends up with 96.31%.

This was tested on both calcs linked above, but Power Split is able to be calculated properly on the Test Calc. I'm thinking it's probably something in the coding, but I wouldn't have the faintest idea what.

edit: My maths is probably wrong but you get the gist.

Just use the test calc URPG Reffing Calculator
If you can't do a few turns on the test calc you don't deserve to be a ref.

Originally Posted by WinterVines

Something interesting I saw on a battle video:

It says on Smogon that you don't restore HP with a draining move when attacking a substitute, but this video shows that you do. Wi Fi Single #347: MultiWhite97 (Guest Narration by SiZZirP) - YouTube

Unless I had just missed it before?

@Pidge
@Ash K.

afaik URPG has always healed with draining moves on a Sub, regardless of what Smogon says. SMOGON ISN'T PERFECT!
Also, why only mention Pidge and me?

Originally Posted by PichuBoy

The 'Life Orb' item setting in the calculator calcs Life Orb incorrectly (only by ~1HP, but every HP counts).

Life Orb (B/W) - Smogon University

Whenever a Pokemon holding a Life Orb successfully uses a damaging attack, that attack deals 1.3x its normal damage, rounded down...

The key part is bolded. Normal damage implies the output from using the attack without a LO, NOT BP.

Hypothetical situation:
Starmie vs Gallade. Starmie @ Life Orb, Gallade @ nothing relevant

Starmie used Hydro Pump.

Way #1 of reffing it (WRONG)
120 * 1.3 = 156

Put into calc: 156BP, Water, Special

Gallade's HP = 51.17% (174HP)

Way #2 of reffing it (SUPPOSEDLY CODED CORRECTLY, BUT WRONG)
Set 'Life Orb' as Starmie's item
Put into calc: 120BP, Water, Special

Gallade's HP = 51.17% (174HP)

Way #3 of reffing it (RIGHT)
Put into the calc: 120BP, Water, Special
Attack Gallade.

Damage output = 129

129 * 1.3 = 167.7 ==> 167

Put -167 into the Damage/Recovery box
Click -HP

Gallade's HP = 50.88% (173HP)

---

Idk if this is just a missing 'floor' function, but yeah. It's only a matter of time before this causes a row.

Did you try other examples? It might just be that with Life Orb you don't round in between or something.

Originally Posted by We Taste Pies...

Originally Posted by WinterVines

@Pidge
@Ash K.

What am I, a tree? ._.

Also, I thought we knew this already...?

Sorry, I was too lazy to look up the exact way to spell your name.

And I've been told on a few occasions (as well as looking it up on Smogon and other places) that you do not receive health back from damaging a sub with a draining move, including my Budget Tourney (few weeks ago?) match that Pidge reffed.

Originally Posted by Ash K.

Just use the test calc URPG Reffing Calculator
If you can't do a few turns on the test calc you don't deserve to be a ref.

Because switching calcs is such a convenient thing to have to do. :/

Did you try other examples? It might just be that with Life Orb you don't round in between or something.

Farfetch'd VS Gurdurr (2 mons chosen at random by spamming my keyboard)

Farfetch'd uses Wing Attack

BP * 1.3 = 58.28%
'Life Orb' setting = 58.28%
Manual = 58.28%

Interesting. I guess it's worth noting here that The damage output (120) * 1.3 actually has an integer, so no rounding is required.

---

Sableye VS Hydreigon

Sableye used Shadow Punch

BP * 1.3 = 87.62%
'Life Orb' setting = 87.62%
Manual = 88.14%

Now what's interesting is that doing this manually creates a situation where LESS damage is done, opposed to MORE damage in the Starmie vs Gallade situation.

---

Eelektrik vs Bastiodon

Eelektrik used Charge Beam

BP * 1.3 = 83.02%
'Life Orb' setting = 83.02%
Manual = 83.02%

Interestingly, damage output * 1.3 WASN'T an integer in this case.

---

Seriously, idk how it's coded (tried looking, but it's mostly gobbledegook to me), but it seems to vary depending on the situation, which is never good :s

Originally Posted by Ash K.

Just use the test calc URPG Reffing Calculator
If you can't do a few turns on the test calc you don't deserve to be a ref.

You could probably calm down a bit about this...

Originally Posted by WinterVines

Originally Posted by We Taste Pies...

Originally Posted by WinterVines

@Pidge
@Ash K.

What am I, a tree? ._.

Also, I thought we knew this already...?

Sorry, I was too lazy to look up the exact way to spell your name.

And I've been told on a few occasions (as well as looking it up on Smogon and other places) that you do not receive health back from damaging a sub with a draining move, including my Budget Tourney (few weeks ago?) match that Pidge reffed.

Its fine, honestly I was more intrigued to find out your reasoning than I was bothered by that...

Originally Posted by PichuBoy

Originally Posted by Ash K.

Just use the test calc URPG Reffing Calculator
If you can't do a few turns on the test calc you don't deserve to be a ref.

Because switching calcs is such a convenient thing to have to do. :/

Did you try other examples? It might just be that with Life Orb you don't round in between or something.

Farfetch'd VS Gurdurr (2 mons chosen at random by spamming my keyboard)

Farfetch'd uses Wing Attack

BP * 1.3 = 58.28%
'Life Orb' setting = 58.28%
Manual = 58.28%

Interesting. I guess it's worth noting here that The damage output (120) * 1.3 actually has an integer, so no rounding is required.

---

Sableye VS Hydreigon

Sableye used Shadow Punch

BP * 1.3 = 87.62%
'Life Orb' setting = 87.62%
Manual = 88.14%

Now what's interesting is that doing this manually creates a situation where LESS damage is done, opposed to MORE damage in the Starmie vs Gallade situation.

---

Eelektrik vs Bastiodon

Eelektrik used Charge Beam

BP * 1.3 = 83.02%
'Life Orb' setting = 83.02%
Manual = 83.02%

Interestingly, damage output * 1.3 WASN'T an integer in this case.

---

Seriously, idk how it's coded (tried looking, but it's mostly gobbledegook to me), but it seems to vary depending on the situation, which is never good :s

Here in URPG, we live and die by that calc. I don't see any reason for this to change that or even change the calc from its present state. It is not only a fairly insignificant discrepancy, but also quite subjective. Who's to say which damage is incorrect?

Originally Posted by We Taste Pies...

Here in URPG, we live and die by that calc. I don't see any reason for this to change that or even change the calc from its present state. It is not only a fairly insignificant discrepancy, but also quite subjective. Who's to say which damage is incorrect?

Well, the correct way to ref Life Orb is to multiply the damage output by 1.3. So, if that's not how the calc is coded, then it's wrong. Nothing subjective about it at all.

Originally Posted by PichuBoy

Originally Posted by We Taste Pies...

Here in URPG, we live and die by that calc. I don't see any reason for this to change that or even change the calc from its present state. It is not only a fairly insignificant discrepancy, but also quite subjective. Who's to say which damage is incorrect?

Well, the correct way to ref Life Orb is to multiply the damage output by 1.3. So, if that's not how the calc is coded, then it's wrong. Nothing subjective about it at all.

Didn't you just get done saying that you don't understand the coding? ._.

When I mentioned it was subjective, I was essentially asking, "How do you know your damage calculation is correct?". I'll have you know that the calculator is coded to correctly handle Life Orb. Lets look at the damage formula really quick.

Damage Formula = (((((((Level × 2 ÷ 5) + 2) × BasePower × [Sp]Atk ÷ 50) ÷ [Sp]Def) × Mod1) + 2) ×
CH × Mod2 × R ÷ 100) × STAB × Type1 × Type2 × Mod3)

Now, I'm assuming you were using Smogon's explanation of how Life Orb works. It says that it increases damage by 1.3x . This can be somewhat misleading, seeing as Life Orb is actually input for Mod2. Give that a try.

Originally Posted by We Taste Pies...

Originally Posted by PichuBoy

Originally Posted by We Taste Pies...

Here in URPG, we live and die by that calc. I don't see any reason for this to change that or even change the calc from its present state. It is not only a fairly insignificant discrepancy, but also quite subjective. Who's to say which damage is incorrect?

Well, the correct way to ref Life Orb is to multiply the damage output by 1.3. So, if that's not how the calc is coded, then it's wrong. Nothing subjective about it at all.

Didn't you just get done saying that you don't understand the coding? ._.

When I mentioned it was subjective, I was essentially asking, "How do you know your damage calculation is correct?". I'll have you know that the calculator is coded to correctly handle Life Orb. Lets look at the damage formula really quick.

Damage Formula = (((((((Level × 2 ÷ 5) + 2) × BasePower × [Sp]Atk ÷ 50) ÷ [Sp]Def) × Mod1) + 2) ×
CH × Mod2 × R ÷ 100) × STAB × Type1 × Type2 × Mod3)

Now, I'm assuming you were using Smogon's explanation of how Life Orb works. It says that it increases damage by 1.3x . This can be somewhat misleading, seeing as Life Orb is actually input for Mod2. Give that a try.

derpwut

Ok, I get the point there. The point is that Mod2 is a mashup of things and gets manipulated before STAB, etc... so that's why it's different ok.

But I do have to ask, why does 'CH * Mod2 * R' get divided by 100? I'm not familiar with the formula at all, so meh.

This isn't hugely important, but all refs should know anyway.

Slaking's Truant and Archeops's Defeatist abilities are not removed/negated by GSC rules. That is, Slaking is still forced to waste a turn, and Archeops will still be crippled at 50%.

Cool update broham. Now if you don't mind, let me go win LD and claim Regigigas, then battle someone with it using GSC rules. kthx.

EDIT: Rule updated. Thanks broham.

When rolling for Critical hits and attack effects, do you roll for Critical hits first or the effects first?

Originally Posted by VeloJello

When rolling for Critical hits and attack effects, do you roll for Critical hits first or the effects first?

It would better to roll for crits first imo, because the extra damage might knock out the other Pokemon and would not need the attack effect

In this video, the Critical Hit message appears before the burn infliction: PBR: Just Epic. - UU Friend Battle 19 VS Monarchsftw - Wailord's self destruction annihilates. - YouTube

Skip to 6:17. It's PBR so it may be outdated, compared to BW. In most situations, it won't matter, however.

Battle between smores and Ash K. started!


Rule: Unrated

Rule: Self-KO Clause


smores sent out Alakazam!

Ash K. sent out Ninetales!

Ash K.'s Ninetales's Drought intensified the sun's rays!


Start of turn 1

Alakazam used Disable!

But if failed!


Ash K.'s Ninetales used Nasty Plot!

Ash K.'s Ninetales's Sp. Att. sharply rose!


The sunlight is strong!


Start of turn 2

Alakazam used Disable!

Ash K.'s Ninetales's Nasty Plot was disabled!


Ash K.'s Ninetales's Nasty Plot is disabled!


The sunlight is strong!


Start of turn 3

Alakazam used Encore!

But if failed!


Ash K.'s Ninetales used Flamethrower!

Alakazam lost 251 HP! (100% of its health)

Alakazam fainted!


Ash K. won the battle!

And so, Encore fails on a move that failed from Disable