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Thread: The Situation Room 2.0

  1. #1831
    Future Seeker HumanDawn's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Situation Room 2.0

    Do you think that my upcoming Overpowered Non-Mafia count as a variant of a normal Mafia game? It has powers that would unbalance the game if put in a normal one. It doesn't have a Mafia. The remaining 2 players alive win, and the Night Phase is only there to send in actions and allow PMs to only happen at that time.

  2. #1832
    never ever giving up J J M's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Situation Room 2.0

    According to the mafia wiki, generally a mafia game is represented by having a uninformed majority (Town) and a informed minority (Mafia). That's generally the structure of "true" mafia games and the strategy involved for them is very unique. The current Non-Mafia games doesn't necessarily fall in that mafia category. Sure it follows the general format with day and night phases, but that's basically it.
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  3. #1833
    Hipsteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer Phoenicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Situation Room 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by KidBeano View Post
    I think there need to be tighter regulations on what constitutes as a 'Mafia Game', and what constitutes as a 'Non-Mafia Game', because I've seen a couple of games recently being posted under the Non-Mafia title, when really, they are Mafia games, just variants. I know it's against the rules to discuss games currently going on, but it really doesn't help my point to not say which ones (and they're both still in SUs anyway), so it's 'Avatar: War of the Four Nations' and 'Another: Class of 2012' which basically just look like they're trying to avoid waiting times.

    Both of these have the basics: Day phases in which a lynch occurs (although 'Another' allows a faction kill here as well); Night phases in which a faction kill occurs; 'Another' has an uninformed minority vs an informed majority; 'Avatar' kind of has this in that each faction is an informed minority, if that makes sense - it doesn't matter which faction you kill, you just have to kill everyone that isn't your own, and you know who your own faction is.

    I will mention this also: Phoenicks asked yesterday whether a Kingmaker game would constitute Non-Mafia or not, but it's basically mafia where the 'King' decides one person each day to decide who is lynched. I said that should be Mafia, for the same reasons above.

    Basically, I'm proposing anything in which lynching and killing play key parts and there's a sense of opposing factions striving to win in which at least one knows its partners should be considered a Mafia game. Non-Mafia should be for games which are obviously totally different, like the War Room Murder Mystery and such.

    I'm not saying the above games are bad games at all - they actually both look quite interesting. I just think it's a bit cheeky to pass them off as Non-Mafia.
    Apologies. There are too many rules already: you above justified talking about ongoing games, just in case such discussion was against the rules.

    There's a growing want to bypass the queue as it grows longer and the rules stay designed to accommodate a small section. If there can only be one small mafia game and three non-mafia games, there will be more contention about who is "select" enough to skip the queue.

    In this case we don't need stricter definitions. Wikipedia defines the game as pitting an uninformed majority against an informed minority, with gameplay divided between day and night phases. Games that maintain both of these characteristics are mafia games; those that don't aren't. That standard is pretty clear and straightforward: If it has an uninformed majority and an informed minority, with day and night phases, it's a mafia game. For our purposes, this covers the standard game played on BMGF.

    We could create classifications for alternate scenarios (three phases of gameplay; two factions of informed minorities; an informed majority and an uninformed minority; etc.) -- do we need to? Would this be an issue if the rules governing the queue were less restrictive? Do we need new rules?
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  4. #1834
    CAPS KidBeano's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Situation Room 2.0

    @ Yours sounds like a blood-thirsty free-for-all xD So, it'd be everyone vs everyone, each trying to kill other people off somehow? Would there be lynches? A nightly kill? Because atm, it doesn't sound much like a Mafia game.

    Quote Originally Posted by J J M View Post
    According to the mafia wiki, generally a mafia game is represented by having a uninformed majority (Town) and a informed minority (Mafia). That's generally the structure of "true" mafia games and the strategy involved for them is very unique. The current Non-Mafia games doesn't necessarily fall in that mafia category. Sure it follows the general format with day and night phases, but that's basically it.
    *a mafia wiki, Mafiascum's to be precise

    Mafiascum is not the be-all and end-all of mafia games. But thanks for proving my point - we don't have an official "this is what a mafia game is". We need one. The "Playing Style" guide is about the closest we've got.

    I've already explained where your games fall in regards to uninformed majority and informed minority. And like I said, they're Mafia variants. By your arguments of a mafia game consisting of Town vs Mafia, any game that involves an independant should be non-mafia. Any game that involves more than one mafia faction should be non-mafia. Any game that involves another anti-town third-party (such as Werewolf or Cult) should be non-mafia. The list goes on.

    However, I expected you'd defend - you're hosting one of the games, after all. I'd more like to hear others' opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenicks View Post
    Apologies. There are too many rules already: you above justified talking about ongoing games, just in case such discussion was against the rules.

    There's a growing want to bypass the queue as it grows longer and the rules stay designed to accommodate a small section. If there can only be one small mafia game and three non-mafia games, there will be more contention about who is "select" enough to skip the queue.

    In this case we don't need stricter definitions. Wikipedia defines the game as pitting an uninformed majority against an informed minority, with gameplay divided between day and night phases. Games that maintain both of these characteristics are mafia games; those that don't aren't. That standard is pretty clear and straightforward: If it has an uninformed majority and an informed minority, with day and night phases, it's a mafia game. For our purposes, this covers the standard game played on BMGF.

    We could create classifications for alternate scenarios (three phases of gameplay; two factions of informed minorities; an informed majority and an uninformed minority; etc.) -- do we need to? Would this be an issue if the rules governing the queue were less restrictive? Do we need new rules?
    Basically what I said above - nowhere is Wikipedia stated as a source for a definition of a mafia game on BMGf. Also, I could easily edit Wikipedia to say a mafia game features an informed majority vs an uninformed minority. Granted, it'd probably be reverted fairly quickly, but does that mean for the period of time it stays that way, that's the definition we use?

    Basically, there should be just a paragraph (if even that is needed) defining all the features of which BMGf considers a Mafia game must consist.
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  5. #1835
    Future Seeker HumanDawn's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Situation Room 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by KidBeano View Post
    @ Yours sounds like a blood-thirsty free-for-all xD So, it'd be everyone vs everyone, each trying to kill other people off somehow? Would there be lynches? A nightly kill? Because atm, it doesn't sound much like a Mafia game.
    There can only be 2 winners in it, so an alliance of only 2 is advised xD. There isn't a Nightly Kill. The Night Phase is to use the abilities in.

  6. #1836
    LVL 7 Master Mew's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Situation Room 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulmaster View Post
    Well it was a history book. Don't tell me some of your history books for school felt unpolished. That was one of my favorite out of all of them.
    I know what it is. I did actually read it.

    Tolkien edited the Lord of the Rings over and over again before he felt it was ready for publication - by contrast, he did not prepare the Silmarillion for publication and it was published post-humously. I didn't say it was poorly written, but it felt unpolished next to the meticulously polished works he published while he was alive.

    I am of the opinion that his son published works that were meant to be personal references, backstory that helped the author maintain perspective while writing his stories which he never intended to publish. Doesn't mean I don't like them, but I do dislike that the Tolkien family is exploiting the author's trashbin.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidBeano View Post
    By your arguments of a mafia game consisting of Town vs Mafia, any game that involves an independant should be non-mafia. Any game that involves more than one mafia faction should be non-mafia. Any game that involves another anti-town third-party (such as Werewolf or Cult) should be non-mafia. The list goes on.
    You're misrepresenting J J M's position, actually. I don't believe he ever said ONLY Town vs Mafia, he said that for a game to be a "Mafia" game, it must include both an informed minority and an uninformed majority, as well as both Day and Night Phases. To suggest that by this he meant Mafia games consist only of those elements is a strawman (as it would also exclude all specialized roles) - the point is that a game can have additional mechanics and still be a Mafia game, but a game without those two mechanics is not a Mafia game.
    Last edited by Master Mew; 23rd November 2012 at 09:46 PM.

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  7. #1837
    Future Seeker HumanDawn's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Situation Room 2.0

    @Akuraito;

    What's AtE?

  8. #1838
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    Default Re: The Situation Room 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanDawn View Post
    @Akuraito;

    What's AtE?
    Appeal to Emotion.

  9. #1839
    Still the coolest! jokool's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Situation Room 2.0

    God.... My head is spinning soooo much right now...

    I need some major help from an expert who isn't in my game: I've asked the question already to a couple of people but got conflicting answers... I'd post the question here, but it contains game related info... HELP!!!

  10. #1840
    LVL 7 Master Mew's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Situation Room 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Akuraito View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HumanDawn View Post
    @Akuraito;

    What's AtE?
    Appeal to Emotion.
    It's almost always misapplied in Mafia games - people have taken to labeling anything you say about your personal life (i.e. you were accused of lurking, so you say you worked late that night and that's the reason you didn't answer their question sooner) as AtE - even though most of the time you were not, in fact, appealing to emotion.

    An actual appeal to emotion would fall more along the lines of:
    Quote Originally Posted by Newbie101
    Don't lynch me, PLEASE! I've joined three mafia games in the past week and this is the only one where I wasn't killed on Day 1! This would ruin my whole day... ;_;

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  11. #1841
    ε(´3`)з crystallineEntropy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Situation Room 2.0

    For the record, I still plan on hosting my Xenoblade and Chrono Trigger mafia, probably next summer. I'm just taking a really long break from mafias right now.

  12. #1842
    Panne Cottontail Kakuna Matata's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: The Situation Room 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Greece View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kakuna Matata View Post
    I will accept nothing less than a "Yes KM I will throw away whatever silly, insignificant plans I have tomorrow to go spend nine hours watching a group of people take the longest walk ever. Also you are super awesome." :I
    I can do the last part, *ahem* "You are super awesome" better?
    All or nuthin'. >:B

  13. #1843
    LVL 7 Master Mew's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Situation Room 2.0

    Vote: KidBeano

    Obv-scum.

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    CAPS KidBeano's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Situation Room 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Mew View Post
    Vote: KidBeano

    Obv-scum.
    Vote: Master Mew

    I'M NOT OMGUSING OMG HOW CAN YOU GUYS THINK THAT IF YOU THINK I'M OMGUSING THEN I'LL CRY ALL NIGHT AND NO I'M NOT APPEALING TO EMOTION SCREW YOU I'M RAGEQUITTING LOLJKS YOU WERE ALL WORRIED HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH but seriously i'm cop and mm is scum
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    Registered User Mintaka's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Situation Room 2.0

    ...so this is a game thread now? Where's my role PM? -w-

    We're doomed, the mafia roleblocker will block him to oblivion if he is stating the truth :<

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