ATTENTION: Striving for Equality - Page 2

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Thread: Striving for Equality

  1. #16
    Onduru ruragittan disukaa Garren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Striving for Equality

    While I cannot directly speak for them, I'm guessing it is equally sickening to them. But they are disregarded by this new policy.
    Yes you can speak directly for them, because it's obvious that looking over your post that you are, in-fact, a homophobe to some extent. You're using the classic "I'm not racist/homophobic, but...", and then literally saying what a homophobic person would say, that homophobia is comparable to homosexuality in terms of rights and that being homophobic is a lifestyle that should be protected. There's no way you'd waste this much breath on protecting someone's right to be a bigot unless you shared their point of view to some extent.

  2. #17
    Lost Wanderer Magnus Newman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Striving for Equality

    Okay, this is good and all.
    But what about intolerance towards religion ? How can it be okay when people write aggressive posts about religion ? I've seen this more than once. Religiophobia should be included along with other forms of hatred.
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    Default Re: Striving for Equality

    Just wondering: Where do we draw the line on what's acceptable and what isn't, and who's the one deciding that? What makes homosexuality any more right than zoophilia, for instance?
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  4. #19
    Surrender now or carry on Bikini Miltank's Avatar Bulbanews Editor-in-Chief
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    Default Re: Striving for Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnus Newman View Post
    Okay, this is good and all.
    But what about intolerance towards religion ? How can it be okay when people write aggressive posts about religion ? I've seen this more than once. Religiophobia should be included along with other forms of hatred.
    I'm of the opinion that politeness goes along way, and I'd hope that people discussing religion here would treat each other with respect.

    But firstly, you must understand that religion and sexuality do not fall into the same categories. Sexuality is something that you innately have; it is largely immutable. Religion is something that you choose to believe; people change religions all the time. In fact, that's sort of the point of religion. It doesn't mean anything unless you've consciously chosen to believe that set of principles.

    Secondly, it depends what you mean by "aggressive posts" and "hatred". Posts directly insulting members of religion X would be infracted under existing rules, so if you see such things going on, be sure to report them. However, posts criticizing aspects of a religion's beliefs or practices are not against the rules, and should not be. It's not a form of bigotry to argue that a set of rules someone has consciously chosen to follow might be wrong. Of course, if that's done in an inflammatory way, then it's very likely breaking Flaming and Baiting rules, but in principle this kind of thing isn't rule breaking. And if you've committed yourself to these principles that are being criticized, you should certainly be prepared to argue in their favor.

  5. #20
    Onduru ruragittan disukaa Garren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Striving for Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Redde View Post
    Just wondering: Where do we draw the line on what's acceptable and what isn't, and who's the one deciding that? What makes homosexuality any more right than zoophilia, for instance?
    Homosexuality is the relationship between two consenting human beings, and zoophilia isn't.

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    Default Re: Striving for Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattro ~ Bajeena View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Redde View Post
    Just wondering: Where do we draw the line on what's acceptable and what isn't, and who's the one deciding that? What makes homosexuality any more right than zoophilia, for instance?
    Homosexuality is the relationship between two consenting human beings
    So can be pedophilia.
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    Onduru ruragittan disukaa Garren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Striving for Equality

    No, because pedophilia involves minors that aren't of the age of consent...

    Stop using the old slippery slope argument. Bulbagarden is obviously not going to support bestiality or pedophilia because of this. :/

  8. #23
    Lost Wanderer Magnus Newman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Striving for Equality

    @ Bikini Miltank
    Okay, thank you for clarifying things in my stead.
    By "aggressive posts" and "hatred" I meant "Posts directly insulting members of religion X". Sometimes there are people who do it in a somewhat subtle yet hateful way.
    I'm totally okay with debates as long as politeness and respect are present.
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    Default Re: Striving for Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattro ~ Bajeena View Post
    No, because pedophilia involves minors that aren't of the age of consent...
    What if a 40-50 year old person makes out with a 18 year old teen? Both people are the age of consent in this case.

    Again, who's the one deciding what's acceptable and what isn't and based on what? To go back to the argument you gave for homosexuality being alright and zoophilia being wrong, what makes making out with someone who doesn't belong to the opposite gender any more alright than making out with a non-human and why?
    Last edited by Redde; 11th June 2012 at 10:11 AM.

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    Onduru ruragittan disukaa Garren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Striving for Equality

    Well, this is a private forum owned by Archaic and his staff members so, in this case, they are allowed to decide ultimately what's acceptable and what is not.

    But really, kissing another human being and making out with a goat is obviously different. I don't know if you're just playing devil's advocate (joining today and coming directly to this thread makes me think that), or if you're truly homophobic, but either way I don't really know what else to say to you since you're diving into the most base of anti-gay arguments out there, the bestiality-comparison routine.

    What if a 40-50 year old person makes out with a 18 year old teen? Both people are the age of consent in this case.
    That's...not pedophilia then. So...uh...what's your point.
    Last edited by Garren; 11th June 2012 at 10:22 AM.

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    My interpretation is that no one is saying that you can't be homophobic ever, but Archaic and the staff are simply saying that you can't be homophobic on BMGF.

    Ultimately, no one can tell you what to think or believe. The staff are just making sure that this forum is not a platform for something they obviously believe is wrong. And kudos to them.

    SaintDynamite

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    Default Re: Striving for Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattro ~ Bajeena View Post
    Well, this is a private forum owned by Archaic and his staff members so, in this case, they are allowed to decide ultimately what's acceptable and what is not.

    But really, kissing another human being and making out with a goat is obviously different. I don't know if you're just playing devil's advocate (joining today and coming directly to this thread makes me think that), or if you're truly homophobic, but either way I don't really know what else to say to you since you're diving into the most base of anti-gay arguments out there, the bestiality-comparison routine.
    I'm just trying to point out that these kinds of things boil down to personal beliefs. I actually agree the staff about that people shouldn't be allowed to attack, harass or undermine gays, as that's trying to push personal beliefs down other people's throats (that homosexuality is wrong). But stating that people expressing their different beliefs (note that by this, I don't mean attacking or undermining people for being homosexual) is unacceptable is hypocritical, as that's pushing your beliefs down others' throats, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattro ~ Bajeena View Post
    What if a 40-50 year old person makes out with a 18 year old teen? Both people are the age of consent in this case.
    That's...not pedophilia then. So...uh...what's your point.
    Most people would consider it pedophilia, or at least wrong.

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by SaintDynamite View Post
    My interpretation is that no one is saying that you can't be homophobic ever, but Archaic and the staff are simply saying that you can't be homophobic on BMGF.

    Ultimately, no one can tell you what to think or believe. The staff are just making sure that this forum is not a platform for something they obviously believe is wrong. And kudos to them.
    Archaic stated this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Archaic View Post
    1. "Debate" of LGBTQ (Lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer/questioning) issues.
    The only forum where we will tolerate negative views of LGBTQ people (and make no mistake, they will be barely tolerated, not accepted) will be in appropriate discussions in Nicoleta's Bus. Posting that sort of view anywhere else will likely result in significant infractions, depending on the circumstances.
    Yes, he stated that debate regarding LGBTQ will be tolerated in Nicoleta's Bus. But the bolded text is the part I take issue with, as it's hypocritically stating "Having a different personal belief from us is unacceptable". If you're going to allow people to debate about LGBTQ, then let people debate; don't go imposing double standards and favoring one side. If it's a debate, then both sides of the argument (the positive and negative views) should be accepted.
    Last edited by Redde; 11th June 2012 at 11:11 AM.
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  13. #28
    Surrender now or carry on Bikini Miltank's Avatar Bulbanews Editor-in-Chief
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    Default Re: Striving for Equality

    And on that note, this isn't the place for such a debate. So why are people here arguing about the differences between homosexuality and zoophilia? Seems like a debate to me, and a pretty stupid one at that.

    So quit it.

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    Default Re: Striving for Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikini Miltank View Post
    And on that note, this isn't the place for such a debate. So why are people here arguing about the differences between homosexuality and zoophilia? Seems like a debate to me, and a pretty stupid one at that.

    So quit it.
    Not to worry. Not more debate about that is needed, as I was already able to get to the point I was trying to get to.

  15. #30
    Brain with a meat puppet. IvySnivy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Striving for Equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Redde View Post
    I'm just trying to point out that these kinds of things boil down to personal beliefs. I actually agree the staff about that people shouldn't be allowed to attack, harass or undermine gays, as that's trying to push personal beliefs down other people's throats (that homosexuality is wrong). But stating that people expressing their different beliefs (note that by this, I don't mean attacking or undermining people for being homosexual) is unacceptable is hypocritical, since that's pushing your beliefs down others' throats too.
    Actually, if you look at it from an empirical point of view, it becomes clear that certain opinions are morally indefensible despite being personal beliefs. Let's take racism and sexism as an example. A person could be misogynistic, and yes, it would be their opinion. However, misogyny is a view that causes suffering or has great potential to cause suffering - whereas equality among the sexes causes happiness or great potential for happiness. Therefore it is clear that misogyny is the "incorrect" view.

    I guess basically what I'm saying is that opinions can be proven wrong; they are not all of equal value. At least, if you use happiness as a measure of what is "correct".

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikini Miltank
    And on that note, this isn't the place for such a debate. So why are people here arguing about the differences between homosexuality and zoophilia? Seems like a debate to me, and a pretty stupid one at that.

    So quit it.
    Got it; sorry about that.

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