@El_ & @smalllady With Kyurem being designated "The Boundary Pokemon," well, I kinda took that as meaning that Kyurem represented boundaries, only assuming, of course, that Kyurem was to represent something at all. (Kyurem is, conceptually, based off of Wuji, outer [emptied] space, and, in at least terms of temperature, zero--Kyurem doesn't necessarily need to represent anything, per say, although I assumed it was designed to represent something.) Hilbert/Hilda, having boundaries more established than N's, are superior to N--in fact, N's lack of boundaries may be his greatest problem, if it doesn't also amount to being his only problem.
Being free of truth and ideals, perhaps having only boundaries is being only in shambles and restraints, and why Kyurem is weakest. In imagining a boundary between two things that would otherwise touch though, well, we can see how a boundary could touch both sides/objects and keep them apart.
Meh, I don't really know what I'm talking about. It may just be me, but having a sense of boundaries is, I think, great virtue. None of this is to say what the Original Dragon may have represented, if it indeed represented anything at all. It probably didn't, but was truly committed to those it thought had a good cause. On that note, perhaps (as a pokemon) it wasn't any stronger than any of the trio currently is, because all of the 3 are extreme polarizations.
Feel free(r) to discuss Battle Strategy with me--I'll discuss anything really.
Besides being a strange (retired) battler with a storied, legendary, mythical, exaggerated, and relatively unknown career, I am also an amateur English B&W anime reviewer. (pachiba, you like?)
And I take hoedowns seriously.
Originally Posted by NN ridiculed Hilbert/Hilda's chances to defeat him without the alliance of a legendary dragon. I think this made the second dragon upset, leading to an intervention. Hilbert/Hilda might have doubted themselves when the Light/Dark Stone didn't react at first, which would be understandable because everyone told them they would need the dragon's help. Of course, this might not have been an intervention so much as a necessary step for the prophecy to be completed in the future. It is possible that Hilbert/Hilda is not the king, but rather N is, or perhaps it is someone else.Originally Posted by N
Astral projection is a good way of putting it. Apparently, in Taoism there are two types of projection: The Yang Shen projection, which is the result of intense physical transformation, and the Yin Shen projection, where the subject is physically invisible and cannot interact physically with their environment. It is possible that the original dragon chose to project itself in both of these ways, with the Tao trio being a physical manifestation using different bodies, and the Puzzle Cube concealing its soul.As for the Puzzle Cube, I don't think they mean a literal TV, just the image of one. I think the projection could likened to something like a vision or even an astral projection (the soul of the original dragon?).
Kyurem must have a long history that didn't directly involve Reshiram or Kyurem, which had only been involved in Unova for a few years before their bodies were destroyed in the second war. As a matter of fact, we don't know much about the exact state of Unova after that war, or how it was rebuilt. Was Kyurem involved? Was it against people staying in Unova? We can't disregard the Lacunosa legend, as it is the only story currently known about Kyurem. While it might not have originated from space, I think it is safe to assume that it really did take away humans and Pokémon, although not to eat them. Perhaps it was looking for someone to resurrect Reshiram and Zekrom, which it obviously needs for its restoration. If you're right about Ghetsis encountering Kyurem, then Kyurem may be the reason why Ghetsis was interested in N and seemed certain of his potential to bring at least one of the dragons back; I think it is pretty clear by now that Ghetsis adopted N, so why did he choose him of all people?I'm a little confused because the legends about the twin heroes in B/W don't mention Kyurem at all. It's only mentioned that Reshiram and Zekrom were once one being. I'm guessing they made little mention of Kyurem on purpose so they could flesh it out in the sequels. But, seeing as this probably isn't a simple third version retcon of the B/W plot, why was Kyurem tucked away in the Giant Chasm cave?.
Originally Posted by smalladyI suspect that the idea of fusion may be a little hard to implement from a gameplay perspective, which is why it seems that Kyurem only borrows Reshiram/Zekrom's energy as opposed to merging with them. If actual fusion occurred, how would the stats and moves be determined? How would the fusion be undone believably? Surely Game Freak wouldn't want to permanently replace the Tao trio with the original dragon, and even if the transformation were reversible, it might be tedious to repeat the event over and over. For that reason, I somehow doubt that the Puzzle Cube simply contains an image of the original dragon to remind the Tao trio of their common origin.Originally Posted by El_
I think we can assume that even if the original dragon is going to be added to the picture in B2W2, it won't be normally obtainable, or else it would be the mascot. For whatever reason, Kyurem can attune itself to Reshiram or Zekrom's genes. But why did Kyurem even have to be created? Wouldn't Reshiram and Zekrom be enough to bring the original dragon back through physical fusion? I think that as the corpse of the original dragon, Kyurem is ultimately supposed to channel its soul via the Puzzle Cube, without actually fusing with Reshiram and Zekrom. Black and White Kyurem may just be the means to ascertain who the king really is.
Last edited by Silktree; 9th March 2012 at 04:38 AM.
I've looked up everywhere in B/W even got a hold of the game guide. My main concern is when were the ruins made.
Last edited by smalllady; 9th March 2012 at 07:56 PM.
If the Underwater Ruins are somehow involved in a major plotline (or have their story explained/expanded upon) I highly doubt it'll be revealed in Corocoro.
So, with what you're saying with Kyurem and the original dragon and N's cube, is this going to be another Sword in the Stone/ King Arthur/ Excalibur plot?
here that I was hypothesizing which dragon was actually siding with N? I'm starting to think that even in a split-timeline theory, both dragons wished to side with N. The dragon of ideals would naturally be drawn to N due to his vision for the future*. However, the games also portrayed N starting to realize that his views may have been clouded:
*A caveat of this is that N's vision for the future need not necessarily be that humans and Pokemon be separate, but a future that would benefit Pokemon the most. However, his mind was clouded by lies, so in order to realize his ideal, he would need truth."I want to talk to you about something."
"It's about when I first met you in Accumula Town. I was shocked when I heard what your Pokémon was saying. I was shocked because that Pokémon said it liked you. It said it wanted to be with you."
"I couldn't understand it. I couldn't believe there were Pokémon that liked people. Because, up until that moment, I'd never known a Pokémon like that. The longer my journey continued, the more unsure I became. All I kept meeting were Pokémon and people who communicated with one another and helped one another. That was why I needed to confirm my beliefs by battling with you. I wanted to confront you hero-to-hero. I needed that more than anything."
That's the problem with stories flowing from one person to another--they get distorted. The current mindset of the fandom that all legends must be true and trying to disregard any possible hidden meaning behind it would either lead to a literal interpretation, or if they don't like the interpretation, a rejection of the entire story--despite in cannon characters like Cynthia taking legends with a grain of salt and trying to imagine how people may have interpreted events the way they did:Kyurem must have a long history that didn't directly involve Reshiram or Kyurem, which had only been involved in Unova for a few years before their bodies were destroyed in the second war. As a matter of fact, we don't know much about the exact state of Unova after that war, or how it was rebuilt. Was Kyurem involved? Was it against people staying in Unova? We can't disregard the Lacunosa legend, as it is the only story currently known about Kyurem. While it might not have originated from space, I think it is safe to assume that it really did take away humans and Pokémon, although not to eat them. Perhaps it was looking for someone to resurrect Reshiram and Zekrom, which it obviously needs for its restoration. If you're right about Ghetsis encountering Kyurem, then Kyurem may be the reason why Ghetsis was interested in N and seemed certain of his potential to bring at least one of the dragons back; I think it is pretty clear by now that Ghetsis adopted N, so why did he choose him of all people?
It is very possible that Kyurem had taken people from Lacunosa village. However, the story of people being eaten may have simply been a way of explaining the disappearances. You see a giant dragon, people disappear, what would you think happened? The dragon invited them to live with them, and they decided never to come back? Perhaps your theory of it looking for someone worthy to resurrect the twin dragons is correct, in which case, there is some unfortunate implications for failing to do so.Dialga's Roar of Time...Palkia's Spacial Rend...To the people back then, those Pokémon really must have appeared to rule over time and space. Seeing them must have shaken the people to their very core. This painting represents those feelings of awe, wonder, and everything else. It passed that memory to countless people, eventually becoming a myth...That's what I believe as a researcher of myths.
Last edited by The Outrage; 10th March 2012 at 12:15 AM.
You could say that, although I honestly hadn't considered the similarity.Originally Posted by UnovaCastaway
I agree that the Black and White story would best fit into the prophecy if N were the king. Aside from the fact that N definitely learned a great deal from that experience (whereas it is impossible to tell what Hilbert/Hilda took from it), there is also the fact that the prophecy refers to a king in both versions, which seems to rule out a queen. But the obvious problem is that it's unlikely that N will be the new player character, and the story climax would be somewhat lacking if we simply watched N completing the prophecy. There might be room for the player character to help him, though.Originally Posted by The Outrage
Perhaps Kyurem banished those people from Unova after they proved unsuccessful. For instance, why did Ghetsis travel the world to find suitable people for Team Plasma? How did Ghetsis know that he had to find a hero and that he alone couldn't resurrect the dragons? He might have tried going to the Dragonspiral Tower once at Kyurem's request, and when he failed, he was exiled from Unova until he could find someone else to do the work for him.You see a giant dragon, people disappear, what would you think happened? The dragon invited them to live with them, and they decided never to come back? Perhaps your theory of it looking for someone worthy to resurrect the twin dragons is correct, in which case, there is some unfortunate implications for failing to do so.
Last edited by Silktree; 10th March 2012 at 01:25 AM.
Um duh the only three things that can understand pokemon are Ash,N,and a Chatot can understand both humans and pokemon it can't be chatot because chatot can't be a king,it can't be ash because he's only in the old games[Red/Blue]so it's gotta be N
When they were talking about the corners and turning, i think it might be directions in the ruins that lead to somewhere. And i see N as "the king"
Team Plasma is probably structured to replicate that ancient civilization. Hence, N as "king".
I love this. It took me forever to get through the ruins without "A torrent of water!" washing me away. It's great to finally see all that text in order to make sense of it.
There was a snippet Serebii posted some days ago which was overlooked in the rush of "ZOMG ABILITIES TUTORS" and the like.
Has anyone translated this deciphered text? Does it approximately match up with "King is..." etc.?Originally Posted by Serebii