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  1. #391
    Registered User Ninja-Mage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainer Customization

    Quote Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Team Gaara View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Team Gaara View Post
    again proving that except for Red, tehre are no set characters in tha main series
    Actually, I think Brendan is, too. In the PWT, Norman says he has a son.
    He does?
    Yes, he does. If you defeat him and talk to him in the lobby, he mentions his son.
    I'm going to take your word for that, but are you sure that's not just a translation error?
    What do you mean a translation error? Saying son as opposed to daughter; is that what you mean?
    I mean as in using "son" instead of the gender-neutral "child". It might not be, but I've seen a similar situation happen with the gender-ambiguous character Crona from Soul Eater- some amateur translators decided Crona was a girl and translated "child" as "daughter", then some fans took this as actual confirmation that Crona was female, which led to more translators using "daughter" despite the fact that gender-specific terms were never used in reference to that character at all. Buuuuuuut this is getting offtopic.
    I remember that, I was so confused when I was watching it because of that. But I think Crona is suppose to be confusing to begin with

  2. #392
    Call me Yusuke Venator's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainer Customization

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja-Mage View Post
    Alright, it sounds like you really know gamer's and what they want. So enlighten me, enlighten all of us, what would you use the let's say 20, no let's go as far as 100 just to be safe. 100 megs of data that character customization would take up, what would you place there instead? Because as I see it, and i'm willing to bet damn good money, there will likely be plenty of space left on that cartridge when it hits retail. 3ds games do not, and i'll repeat, do not take up that much memory.
    I have no clue. Last I checked, this was not a creativity contest. The data used for character customization, if added, could be utilized for something else entirely, and I don't need to come up with an example of what it might be if it's obvious that it can.

    As for your assumption that only the people in this thread actually care about customizing characters, I disagree. I've watched several video's with people's top ten wish list for Pokemon X and Y, on every single one Character Creation was on their list. And on most of them it was in the top 3 most wanted features.
    Venator: Anyway, I'll just say that there are a number of people who are not looking forward to character customization. There would be very little, if any, point to adding it, and, for most players (i.e. outside of Bulbagarden or even this thread), it's probably not even on the radar when people think about the games.

    I did not assume what you suggest I did. I have read and watched many "top tens" like you have. There are many who want it, regardless of where that interest was displayed.

    I made a statement that it's not important to many. Not that they were against it, but there are many who don't deem it necessary or important or even significant that it be added, if it is added.

    I, myself, am just looking forward to the new region and Pokemon. I'm apathetic when it comes to trainer customization because I don't find it important.

    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." -George S. Patton
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  3. #393
    Scandal in the FireNation Akira Bond's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainer Customization

    I have seen most people here wanting character customisation, but I've also seen a few who also do not want character customisation, and that is fine. Their ideas are as valid is ours. We all want different things, and the only thing we can do is hope and wait to see what happens.

  4. #394
    Scandal in the FireNation Akira Bond's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainer Customization

    I still disagree with Venator on terms with the characters are set PCs. I believe that is only partly true in the smallest sense.

    Like I have already argued, you get to choose your name, you get to choose your gender, you get to choose your Pokemon and your moves for them, you get to choose your strategies, you get to choose everything besides your appearance. Your appearance is the only thing that is set, everything else is your own personal character. So yes, I believe there are 'official set Protagonists' made by GameFreak, but when it comes to playing the actual games, the player character is your own.

    Also, I believe I've read somewhere once that Nintendo created Link in the way they did so that players can believe they are the ones being Link, not just Link being Link.

  5. #395
    Available in late 2015! Pepsi Perfect's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainer Customization

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja-Mage View Post
    Well actually you can name Link. But his role as the silent protagonist is starting to fade away as each game gives him more and more of a personality. Originally his intent as stated by Miyamoto was for you the player to feel like the hero. He was a blank slate for that reason much like the trainers. But unlike the trainers in Pokemon each game expanded on his heritage and his character. Till eventually you knew before a Zelda game was even announced you'd be playing as Link. Pokemon isn't like that however. You haven't gone on playing as Red since Red/Green. It's changed every gen. But one thing has stayed the same, the blank slate. Our trainers have zero personality except the ones we give them by selecting yes, or no. We're overdo for customization
    Oh, really? I haven't really played the games much since I was younger. Thanks for correcting me. I shouldn't assume things or at least do my research, I guess.

    I don't think customisation really mattered before gen 4. DP introduced wifi capabilities, and it's really weird when you see yourself all over the place. But I can understand that maybe the DS cart wasn't powerful enough or the sprites making it difficult. But with introduction of the much more powerful 3DS cart and 3D models, there's no longer any excuses.

    @Venator: Nobody's saying that space taken up on the cart for customisation couldn't be used for something else. That's obviously true. However, the point trying to be made is that you could have customisation and that something else, and then several something elses. Space is most certainly not a problem.
    Last edited by Pepsi Perfect; 7th April 2013 at 12:14 AM. Reason: derp

  6. #396
    Doc Octillery FTW VeggiePopper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainer Customization

    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VeggiePopper View Post
    Actually, that's not totally true. If Red is Red and Leaf is Leaf, why can we change their names? Why can we choose our Pokémon and their moves and nicknames?
    Individual multiplayer personas. If we were not able to change the names, then every Pokemon would be owned by Red, Leaf, etc. and be named the exact same thing. Allowing the choice of names allows for distinctions between trainers when battling, trading or when online.

    Ultimately, you are still Red, Leaf, etc. when playing through the game. Their personality is pretty much decided.

    Your point was that they are set characters; I effectively proved the contrary.

    The protagonists are not set characters and the PC IS our personal character; we can play with their characteristics and that's part of the fun in Pokémon.
    The protagonist is not your personal character. There is a bit of immersion with name choice, but they are their own character with their own history.

    Do you also claim that Link in some of the recent LoZ games is yours?

    You can change his name, and decide what actions he takes throughout the story.

    Therefore he's your own?

    No, he's still Link. You're just along for the ride.

    Thing is, in Link's case you can't customise him really (save for shields and probably some upgradable items in Skyward Sword), whereas in Pokémon, WE ALL have proved you can and you do (party members, nicknames, moves). In Zelda's case, yes, you're just for the ride, because there's one one way to play the game (free-sequencing has been but absent since the 3-D games), only one way to beat bosses (hit them on the weak spot with the dungeon item to stun them, slash to deal damage, rinse and repeat), whereas in Pokémon, with the exception of Gen V, the game still has some non-linearity (there's always a couple of Gyms you can do in any different orders) and there's an infinite way to defeat foes (every Pokémon and every move can do different against them and be useful). See? In Pokémon you're not just "along for the ride", you actually decide how the ride will go.

    Plus, Pokémon is not as story-focused as Zelda


    So, in a way, we've always (or at least since Crystal) had character customization, only in a very basic form, and with full customisation that would only be expanded rather than changing the tradition.
    We have had partial character customization, for multiplayer. It was expanded upon in recent games by allowing players to choose a trainer class and a nature for their multiplayer persona.

    Not so shockingly, the choices had absolutely no effect on the canon characters of the games.

    I see no reason why they should. The in-game characters are still the in-game characters. Your online persona is you. Therein lies the difference.

    The same goes for character customization. As I typed earlier, I think that if character customization is to happen, then it will likely not go any farther than affecting the online persona, as in the games.

    So you've spent pages stating that customisation can't be done because characters are set and they have story, yet you just shrug canon off (now, do you even now what canon is?)? That's not only sel-contradictory, that's just... ridiculous, to say the least. Now you lost all your credibility for me; still, I might answer for fun and to see how far you go in your sttubborness.

    Since, according to you, it doesn't affect the canon (which contradicts the rest of your posts), then what damage would customization do to the canon? You even said it, the characters we chose don't affect the canon, this time it would be the same, only that instead of having to choose between two characters, we could choose among hundreds of them (are we Lyra? or are we Ethan? It doesn't matter, so basically we can be anyone).

    Also, no, customisation not only serves for online multiplayer since, you know... you see your character during the whole game, so it still affects your personal experience. Also, isn't it a bit stupid that when you get a Pokémon in a trade, the Pokémon's OT looked EXACTLY LIKE YOU? Not to mention that the whole trade and OT thing just EMPHAZISES how, despite what you try to shove on our heads, the game DOES have the intention of feeling like the trainer is you/your avatar (if not, OT's wouldn't matter); actually, even Masuda of all names has said repeatedly that the character is supposed to represent the player and that the player (not the character) must bond with their Pokémon, and that alone beats every argument that tries to say otherwise (is your personal perception more important than Masuda's official word? Now THAT is something). Oh, casually it's being advertised insistently that in XY players will bond deeper with their Pokémon, which again, hints for customisation, and if not, at least confirms further that yes, in Pokémon the player is supposed to be the character and vice versa.


    If they are so 'true, regardless of people', then why we stil don't have confirmed canon protagonists (except Red)? For instance, Hilbert and Hilda's stories can't be simultaneously 'true', since only one is friends with Cheren and Bianca and beat Alder while the other trains at the Battle Subway. And the same applies to all of the other PC's.
    The only reason we know about Red's canon is because he appeared in sequels before character gender was a choice.

    In B2/W2, the other sequels available, the past is directly influenced by Memory Linking with Black or White.

    Except that (as you said yourself) it only happens with Memory Link, otherwise, that doesn't happen. They could have followed the Red path and mention (one of) them via their default names, but alas, that didn't happen, so no, we still have not 'set' protagonists of those games (again who is the set character of BW? Is it Hilbert? Or is it Hilda?). It's not set who of the two was the true heroe. This shows -again- that it is the developers' intentions not to have canon (read, set) protagonists for any games.

    Also, if you don't want/like customization, just stick with the default design instead of ruining the fun for those who do want it, just like you can skip contests, musicals and films (personally, I despise contests and musicals, yet I've never bitched about them, I just ignored them and they never caused me any trouble).
    I likely will ignore it, and maybe, after a long time of ignoring it, try it out eventually.

    That does not make for a good reason for customization.

    That does not make for a good reason against customisation either, so it's a draw here. Wait, no. Was there a good reason for contests? No, yet they were there. And some people love them, so having them was for the better, even if not YOUR better. But deal with it, you're not the whole fanbase.

    And about your point of wasting unnecessary memory which could be used for better features, let me remind you that 3DS carts can hold up to 8GB (which is more than a DVD can hold, so if GF wanted it to, XY could be bigger than Skyward Sword), so obviously there's a lot of space there and even with full customization there will be a lot of free space in the cart´s ROM.
    The space devoted to character customization could still be used for something else entirely.

    Yeah, like using it for more empty ROM space, right? I mean, Pokémon games have never taken the cart's full ROM size, so again (it seems you didn't get/read my point), if they put character customisation in, it wouldn't take the space of something "worthier" since there would still be free space available for that "worthier feature" that, according to you, would inevitably have to be scrapped in order to be put in there because customization would take the space and leave no room for it... Yeah...

    So tehre's no reason for not having it, even if you don't want to.
    Other than the whole "It would be there only for messing around, since the trainer only appears for a good five seconds for anyone else on multiplayer battles, so why even add it" reason.

    As I said earlier, the trainer not only appears fo five seconds during online multiplayer... It appears DURING THE WHOLE FREAKING GAME (or is your character invisible outside online matches? Because if that's the case, then probably I've been played the wrong games for 15 years).

    Anyway, I'll just say that there are a number of people who are not looking forward to character customization. There would be very little, if any, point to adding it, and, for most players (i.e. outside of Bulbagarden or even this thread), it's probably not even on the radar when people think about the games.

    As many before me have already informed you, outside Bulbagarden trainer customisaction is still one of the most requested features (actually, I think the only one that is more wanted is a MMORPG game a la World of Warcraft).
    Bolds please. And I'm done with you, I swear.
    Last edited by VeggiePopper; 7th April 2013 at 03:53 AM.


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  7. #397
    Mrs. Steven Stone Kyriaki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainer Customization

    Quote Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Team Gaara View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Team Gaara View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Team Gaara View Post
    again proving that except for Red, tehre are no set characters in tha main series
    Actually, I think Brendan is, too. In the PWT, Norman says he has a son.
    He does?
    Yes, he does. If you defeat him and talk to him in the lobby, he mentions his son.
    I'm going to take your word for that, but are you sure that's not just a translation error?
    What do you mean a translation error? Saying son as opposed to daughter; is that what you mean?
    I mean as in using "son" instead of the gender-neutral "child". It might not be, but I've seen a similar situation happen with the gender-ambiguous character Crona from Soul Eater- some amateur translators decided Crona was a girl and translated "child" as "daughter", then some fans took this as actual confirmation that Crona was female, which led to more translators using "daughter" despite the fact that gender-specific terms were never used in reference to that character at all. Buuuuuuut this is getting offtopic.
    I'd better check that out and see how its done in MY language. If he indeed says he has a son, then it's highly likely that Brendan IS the set character

  8. #398
    Call me Yusuke Venator's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainer Customization

    Honestly? In-quote responses? In my experience, people tend to hate to respond to these on forums. I'm no different. It's unnecessarily frustrating to respond to in-quote responses.

    Quote Originally Posted by VeggiePopper View Post
    Your point was that they are set characters; I effectively proved the contrary.
    You really did not. They are still set characters. Their personalities and actions are the same. You basically get to choose a name for them, and decide a team, and this is for two reasons:

    1) To make you feel like you are in control, even when the story is, for all intents and purposes, completely linear. You're basically along for the ride.

    2) Player differentiation in multiplayer.

    Thing is, in Link's case you can't customise him really (save for shields and probably some upgradable items), whereas in Pokémon, WE ALL have proved you can and you do (party members, nicknames, moves). In Zelda's case, yes, you're just for the ride, because there's one one way to play the game (free-sequencing has been but absent since the 3-D games), only one way to beat bosses (hit them on the weak spot with the dungeon item to stun them, slash to deal damage, rinse and repeat), whereas in Pokémon, with the exception of Gen V, the game still has some non-linearity (there's always a couple of Gyms you can do in any different orders) and there's an infinite way to defeat foes (every Pokémon and every move can do different against them and be useful). See? In Pokémon you're not just "along for the ride", you actually decide how the ride will go.
    Same for most LoZs, actually. Sure, your weapons are limited, but there is also multiple ways to kill every non-boss enemy (within your limited selection) and many ways to play the game (from boss-rushing, to completionist), even if you ultimately fight the same order of bosses in a linear story.

    Sounds pretty similar to Pokemon, except for the non-specific ways to defeat bosses.

    with the exception of Gen V, the game still has some non-linearity (there's always a couple of Gyms you can do in any different orders)
    While I did not know this (I thought every gen except Gen I was restricted), it's likely that these out-of-order playthroughs were unintentional oversights in the first place, and that is why you cannot skip around in Gen V.

    Plus, Pokémon is not as story-focused as Zelda
    While the story is not nearly as fleshed out in Pokemon as it is in LoZ, Pokemon is quite story-based.

    [b]So you've spent pages stating that customisation can't be done because characters are set and they have story, yet you just shrug canon (now, do you even now what canon is?)? That's not only sel-contradictory, that's just... ridiculous, to say the least. Now you lost all your credibility for me; still, I might answer for fun and to see how far you go in your sttubborness.
    Err... I don't think I once said that character customization cannot be done. It obviously can, and there's no contesting that Game Freak has the capabilities to do so (the same could be said for anything you or they can think of). I only said it serves no (good) purpose.

    Also, no, customisation not only serves for online multiplayer since, you know... you see your character during the whole game, so it still affects your personal experience.
    It's main purpose (or, in my opinion, the only good purpose) is to differentiate between players online.

    Being able to change how you look in-game is frivolous and unimportant in comparison. All it is is dress-up.

    Also, isn't it a bit stupid that when you get a Pokémon in a trade, the Pokémon's OT looked EXACTLY LIKE YOU?
    Not so in Generation V. In Generation V, you pick a trainer class through your Trainer Card, and that changes your online appearance for trades and battles. You can also pick a personality (also through your Trainer Card), and your dialogue in Union Tower will change.

    Try using the GTS and heading to Union Tower (from Castelia City) some time. It's quite interesting to see the differing sprites and dialogue (i.e. "character customization") that were added solely for interacting with multiple players.

    Not to mention that the whole trade and OT thing just EMPHAZISES how, depsite why you try to shove on our heads, the game DOES have the intention of feeling like the trainer is you/your avatar (if not, OT's wouldn't matter);
    The whole "trade and OT thing" emphasizes the player's multiplayer/online persona.

    actually, even Masuda of all names has said repeatedly that the character is supposed to represent the player and that the player (not the character) must bond with their Pokémon, and that alone beats every argument that tries to say otherwise (is your personal perception more important than Masuda's official word? Now THAT is something).
    ...I don't believe I've ever said my perception is more important than Masuda's official statements?

    I don't think I ever said anything about how there was no sort of player immersion into the game. I believe what I said is that the protagonist is not your personal character, even if it represents you ever so slightly.

    Except that (as you said yourself) it only happens with Memory Link, otherwise, that doesn't happen. They could have followed the Red path and mention them via their default names, but alas, that didn't happen, so no, we still have npt 'set' protagonists of those games. It's not set who of the two was the true heroe. This shows -again- that it is the developers' intentions not to have canon (read, set) protagonists for any games.
    You seem to be treating me like a buffoon who is entirely oblivious and incapable of understanding things.

    Couldn't be farther from the truth as I understood all of what you typed well before you typed it. It's all obvious.

    Also, I'm currently unsure of its status in canon, but the pre-order book for Black 2/White 2 shows four comics featuring Nate and only one featuring Rosa, all of which are of important Black 2/White 2 storyline events. Nate has, at least, a Lucario, an Arcanine and chose Tepig as his starter, while Rosa chose Snivy (and has a Serperior). I think this might mean something, but I don't know what exactly.

    That does not make for a good reason against customisation either, so it's a draw here. Wait, no. Was there a good reason for contests? No, yet they were there. And some peolple love them.
    "If you don't like it, don't use it" is never a good reason to include something in a game. Simple fact.

    You need to have good reasons to add something, instead of throwing darts at the wall to see what sticks.

    Yeah, like empty ROM space, right? I mean, Pokémon games have never used the full ROM space, so again (it seems you didn't get/read my point). If they put character customisation in, it wouldn't take the space of something "more worthier" since there would still be free space available for that "worthier feature" that, according to you, would inevitably have to be scrapped in order to be put in there because customization would take the space and leave no room for it... Yeah...
    Er... while I was initially unsure of the exact specifications of the 3DS card's memory space, I had a feeling that there would be a lot of room leftover regardless.

    I believe I changed my argument to something along the lines of "the memory space used for character customization (as you desire it) could also be used for pretty much anything else", which isn't so much an argument as a statement of fact, but whatever.

    Also, "it seems you didn't get/read my point" is quite ironic coming from you.

    As I said earlier, the trainer not only appears fo five seconds during online multiplayer... It appears DURING THE WHOLE FREAKING GAME (or is your character invisible outside online matches? Because if that's the case, then probably I've been played the wrong games for 15 years).
    I still see multiplayer as the main reason to have character customization so I willfully omit that reason you continue to supply as I deem it frivolous.

    The trainer does appear for five seconds in battles. And in the GTS/Union Tower as their chosen trainer class sprite. In online multiplayer.

    As many before me have already informed you, outside Bulbagarden trainer customisaction is still one of the most requested feature (actually, I think the only one that is more wanted is a MMORPG game a la World of Warcraft).
    And I said that there are many fans who ultimately do not care whether or not character customization is added.

    How is this contradictory to your statement in any way?

    Bolds please. And I'm done with you, I swear.
    Since you're "done with" me, then I hope you do not mind some criticisms.

    Spell check, reading comprehension and stop doing in-quote responses.

    Good night.

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  9. #399
    Scandal in the FireNation Akira Bond's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainer Customization

    There are plenty of role playing games in which you have complete character customisation and yet the story is still the same. Just because there is a set story doesn't make the game characters set. Take Dragon quest 9 on the DS for instance, you create your very own character completely, name, skin colour, eye colour, class, and then you go on and complete the same storyline no matter what your character looks like.

    In regards to Pokemon, there is a lot more involved that is your personal choices, than there are set choices, therefore the characters in the games are a lot more personal and 'you' than they are set PCs. If Dragon Quest is able to have complete character customisation and continue the same storyline, than Pokemon can too.

    Also, if you go on bulbapedia, and read the page on 'Player Character' they too reference trainers as being your own personal players.

    "A player character in the world of Pokémon is the protagonist of the games. Remarkably silent, player characters are the avatar of the player; it is left up to the latter to "fill in" what they imagine the character is feeling, thinking and acting, thus immersing the player within the world of the game."

    "The player character is a critical part of the Pokémon games' core. Set in an approximate background, player characters are effectively the players themselves, giving the latter the opportunity to add in their details, color the journey with their views and personality and co-exist with other players. Concurrently, they are the hero of the said myth, the one person to take part on the main events of each game. This twofold nature of the player character gives players the opportunity to choose from several alternatives and distinguish themselves from one another, while at the same time the adventure of the protagonist of the game unfolds, with the several details not being set or standard. Ultimately, the events of the game progress with the player assuming the protagonist's role, while all at once finding themselves in the world of the game as a unique entity."
    Last edited by Akira Bond; 7th April 2013 at 04:53 AM.

  10. #400

    Default Re: Trainer Customization

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Gaara View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Team Gaara View Post
    again proving that except for Red, tehre are no set characters in tha main series
    Actually, I think Brendan is, too. In the PWT, Norman says he has a son.
    He does?
    Yes, he does. If you defeat him and talk to him in the lobby, he mentions his son.
    Just following up on this: I beat Norman the other day, and when I talked to him afterwards, he only mentioned having a kid. Not a son.

    ... Anyway, trainer customization. I'd totally have fun with it, but I'll live if they don't include it, I guess.

  11. #401
    Ready for Hoenn! Jenneta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainer Customization

    Everybody, please stop getting into a fight. It's really not necessary. ;)
    Trainer Customization would be nice, however. I have specific images for my characters in mind. Like Hazel, my character for Platinum and Black 2, has long, brown, braided hair and she wears much different clothes then Dawn and Rosa. So it would be nice, however I can live without it. I just ignore the way (for example) Rosa looks and pretend it's Hazel anyways. ;D So yeah. It'd be nice ,but I can live without it.
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  12. #402

    Default Re: Trainer Customization

    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Honestly? In-quote responses? In my experience, people tend to hate to respond to these on forums. I'm no different. It's unnecessarily frustrating to respond to in-quote responses.

    Quote Originally Posted by VeggiePopper View Post
    Your point was that they are set characters; I effectively proved the contrary.
    You really did not. They are still set characters. Their personalities and actions are the same. You basically get to choose a name for them, and decide a team, and this is for two reasons:

    1) To make you feel like you are in control, even when the story is, for all intents and purposes, completely linear. You're basically along for the ride.

    2) Player differentiation in multiplayer.

    Thing is, in Link's case you can't customise him really (save for shields and probably some upgradable items), whereas in Pokémon, WE ALL have proved you can and you do (party members, nicknames, moves). In Zelda's case, yes, you're just for the ride, because there's one one way to play the game (free-sequencing has been but absent since the 3-D games), only one way to beat bosses (hit them on the weak spot with the dungeon item to stun them, slash to deal damage, rinse and repeat), whereas in Pokémon, with the exception of Gen V, the game still has some non-linearity (there's always a couple of Gyms you can do in any different orders) and there's an infinite way to defeat foes (every Pokémon and every move can do different against them and be useful). See? In Pokémon you're not just "along for the ride", you actually decide how the ride will go.
    Same for most LoZs, actually. Sure, your weapons are limited, but there is also multiple ways to kill every non-boss enemy (within your limited selection) and many ways to play the game (from boss-rushing, to completionist), even if you ultimately fight the same order of bosses in a linear story.

    Sounds pretty similar to Pokemon, except for the non-specific ways to defeat bosses.

    with the exception of Gen V, the game still has some non-linearity (there's always a couple of Gyms you can do in any different orders)
    While I did not know this (I thought every gen except Gen I was restricted), it's likely that these out-of-order playthroughs were unintentional oversights in the first place, and that is why you cannot skip around in Gen V.

    Plus, Pokémon is not as story-focused as Zelda
    While the story is not nearly as fleshed out in Pokemon as it is in LoZ, Pokemon is quite story-based.

    [b]So you've spent pages stating that customisation can't be done because characters are set and they have story, yet you just shrug canon (now, do you even now what canon is?)? That's not only sel-contradictory, that's just... ridiculous, to say the least. Now you lost all your credibility for me; still, I might answer for fun and to see how far you go in your sttubborness.
    Err... I don't think I once said that character customization cannot be done. It obviously can, and there's no contesting that Game Freak has the capabilities to do so (the same could be said for anything you or they can think of). I only said it serves no (good) purpose.

    Also, no, customisation not only serves for online multiplayer since, you know... you see your character during the whole game, so it still affects your personal experience.
    It's main purpose (or, in my opinion, the only good purpose) is to differentiate between players online.

    Being able to change how you look in-game is frivolous and unimportant in comparison. All it is is dress-up.

    Also, isn't it a bit stupid that when you get a Pokémon in a trade, the Pokémon's OT looked EXACTLY LIKE YOU?
    Not so in Generation V. In Generation V, you pick a trainer class through your Trainer Card, and that changes your online appearance for trades and battles. You can also pick a personality (also through your Trainer Card), and your dialogue in Union Tower will change.

    Try using the GTS and heading to Union Tower (from Castelia City) some time. It's quite interesting to see the differing sprites and dialogue (i.e. "character customization") that were added solely for interacting with multiple players.

    Not to mention that the whole trade and OT thing just EMPHAZISES how, depsite why you try to shove on our heads, the game DOES have the intention of feeling like the trainer is you/your avatar (if not, OT's wouldn't matter);
    The whole "trade and OT thing" emphasizes the player's multiplayer/online persona.

    actually, even Masuda of all names has said repeatedly that the character is supposed to represent the player and that the player (not the character) must bond with their Pokémon, and that alone beats every argument that tries to say otherwise (is your personal perception more important than Masuda's official word? Now THAT is something).
    ...I don't believe I've ever said my perception is more important than Masuda's official statements?

    I don't think I ever said anything about how there was no sort of player immersion into the game. I believe what I said is that the protagonist is not your personal character, even if it represents you ever so slightly.

    Except that (as you said yourself) it only happens with Memory Link, otherwise, that doesn't happen. They could have followed the Red path and mention them via their default names, but alas, that didn't happen, so no, we still have npt 'set' protagonists of those games. It's not set who of the two was the true heroe. This shows -again- that it is the developers' intentions not to have canon (read, set) protagonists for any games.
    You seem to be treating me like a buffoon who is entirely oblivious and incapable of understanding things.

    Couldn't be farther from the truth as I understood all of what you typed well before you typed it. It's all obvious.

    Also, I'm currently unsure of its status in canon, but the pre-order book for Black 2/White 2 shows four comics featuring Nate and only one featuring Rosa, all of which are of important Black 2/White 2 storyline events. Nate has, at least, a Lucario, an Arcanine and chose Tepig as his starter, while Rosa chose Snivy (and has a Serperior). I think this might mean something, but I don't know what exactly.

    That does not make for a good reason against customisation either, so it's a draw here. Wait, no. Was there a good reason for contests? No, yet they were there. And some peolple love them.
    "If you don't like it, don't use it" is never a good reason to include something in a game. Simple fact.

    You need to have good reasons to add something, instead of throwing darts at the wall to see what sticks.

    Yeah, like empty ROM space, right? I mean, Pokémon games have never used the full ROM space, so again (it seems you didn't get/read my point). If they put character customisation in, it wouldn't take the space of something "more worthier" since there would still be free space available for that "worthier feature" that, according to you, would inevitably have to be scrapped in order to be put in there because customization would take the space and leave no room for it... Yeah...
    Er... while I was initially unsure of the exact specifications of the 3DS card's memory space, I had a feeling that there would be a lot of room leftover regardless.

    I believe I changed my argument to something along the lines of "the memory space used for character customization (as you desire it) could also be used for pretty much anything else", which isn't so much an argument as a statement of fact, but whatever.

    Also, "it seems you didn't get/read my point" is quite ironic coming from you.

    As I said earlier, the trainer not only appears fo five seconds during online multiplayer... It appears DURING THE WHOLE FREAKING GAME (or is your character invisible outside online matches? Because if that's the case, then probably I've been played the wrong games for 15 years).
    I still see multiplayer as the main reason to have character customization so I willfully omit that reason you continue to supply as I deem it frivolous.

    The trainer does appear for five seconds in battles. And in the GTS/Union Tower as their chosen trainer class sprite. In online multiplayer.

    As many before me have already informed you, outside Bulbagarden trainer customisaction is still one of the most requested feature (actually, I think the only one that is more wanted is a MMORPG game a la World of Warcraft).
    And I said that there are many fans who ultimately do not care whether or not character customization is added.

    How is this contradictory to your statement in any way?

    Bolds please. And I'm done with you, I swear.
    Since you're "done with" me, then I hope you do not mind some criticisms.

    Spell check, reading comprehension and stop doing in-quote responses.

    Good night.
    So you're saying Pokemon has never put anything completely pointless in their games. Really, dude? At least Pokemon can put something in the game that's pointless AND actually wanted.

    I don't really want to bother going through this whole quote and deleting everything except for what I'm responding to.

    EDIT: I'm worried you won't see this post. This post was written by Akira Bond. Sorry if this breaks any rules, mods.
    Akira Bond:
    There are plenty of role playing games in which you have complete character customisation and yet the story is still the same. Just because there is a set story doesn't make the game characters set. Take Dragon quest 9 on the DS for instance, you create your very own character completely, name, skin colour, eye colour, class, and then you go on and complete the same storyline no matter what your character looks like.

    In regards to Pokemon, there is a lot more involved that is your personal choices, than there are set choices, therefore the characters in the games are a lot more personal and 'you' than they are set PCs. If Dragon Quest is able to have complete character customisation and continue the same storyline, than Pokemon can too.

    Also, if you go on bulbapedia, and read the page on 'Player Character' they too reference trainers as being your own personal players.

    "A player character in the world of Pokémon is the protagonist of the games. Remarkably silent, player characters are the avatar of the player; it is left up to the latter to "fill in" what they imagine the character is feeling, thinking and acting, thus immersing the player within the world of the game."

    "The player character is a critical part of the Pokémon games' core. Set in an approximate background, player characters are effectively the players themselves, giving the latter the opportunity to add in their details, color the journey with their views and personality and co-exist with other players. Concurrently, they are the hero of the said myth, the one person to take part on the main events of each game. This twofold nature of the player character gives players the opportunity to choose from several alternatives and distinguish themselves from one another, while at the same time the adventure of the protagonist of the game unfolds, with the several details not being set or standard. Ultimately, the events of the game progress with the player assuming the protagonist's role, while all at once finding themselves in the world of the game as a unique entity."

    Like I said, all credit goes to Akira Bond.
    Also, Akira, if you're mad, think about it as free advertising. Even though your post is directly above mine, and he'll probably see it, making this pointless...
    I'm still going to press the "Save Changes" button. :P
    EDIT (AGAIN): I actually wouldn't be surprised if customization didn't get added in. It would make me say to Game Freak to passing up on the opportunity, though.
    Last edited by Akromatic; 10th April 2013 at 07:15 PM.

  13. #403
    Scandal in the FireNation Akira Bond's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainer Customization

    I'm not sure why you think I'd be mad, I don't mind you using my quotes to prove your points or to respond to me. That's what the quote button is there for. All i ask is that you know what point I'm arguing across (characters in game are your personal characters).

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    Default Re: Trainer Customization

    Quote Originally Posted by Akira Bond View Post
    I'm not sure why you think I'd be mad, I don't mind you using my quotes to prove your points or to respond to me. That's what the quote button is there for. All i ask is that you know what point I'm arguing across (characters in game are your personal characters).
    You should still use the Quote button, so people will know that you've replied to them, instead of just posting and hoping that they happen to come across your post.

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    Scandal in the FireNation Akira Bond's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trainer Customization

    Quote Originally Posted by Poko907 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Akira Bond View Post
    I'm not sure why you think I'd be mad, I don't mind you using my quotes to prove your points or to respond to me. That's what the quote button is there for. All i ask is that you know what point I'm arguing across (characters in game are your personal characters).
    You should still use the Quote button, so people will know that you've replied to them, instead of just posting and hoping that they happen to come across your post.
    As opposed to your last post just copying and pasting what I wrote, instead of using the quote button?? You did the same thing. Besides, this post is right under yours, it would be hard to miss. Plus your quote was much too big to use a quote, and I dislike using quotes when they start getting too long.

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