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  1. #31
    Registered User Planky's Avatar
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    Default Re: TM and HMs: How will they change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Solacen View Post
    France still has rivers that one could cross with surf.
    Yep. Even if it were based just on Paris, there is still La Seine. In fact, if the region is based on Paris, I reckon the region could have quite a prominent river in it.

  2. #32
    A real monstrosity SnorlaxMonster's Avatar Bulbanews Deputy Editor-in-Chief
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    Default Re: TM and HMs: How will they change.

    The thing about HMs is that I've always felt that if we didn't have them everyone would want them. "Using moves outside of battle! That sounds awesome!" What it actually results in is a pain, where you have to have Pokemon know the moves.

    You CANNOT simply merge HMs into TMs and keep their field effects the way they are now though. In Gen V, what distinguishes HMs from TMs is that they cannot normally be forgotten. This prevents players getting themselves stuck. Since the PC doesn't offer storage anymore, there isn't the issue of leaving your HM in the PC and forgetting Surf on an island like there used to be (and you haven't been able to store HMs in the PC since RS anyway); however, there is still the issue of trading in the Pokemon that knows Surf then forgetting it on an island (especially since you don't need Badges to use HM moves as field moves anymore).

    Having said that, moving HMs in the direction of Strength would be nice; once you cut down a tree it should stay cut down. Maybe even making Cut and Strength merely TMs like Flash. Having Defog back as a field move would be nice though (preferably not an HM, like Flash, though) as fog in the overworld in Gen V was annoying. It is still completely optional to use though.

    If we want to get rid of HMs and replace them with types, that could work too, with Water-type Pokemon and Flying-type Pokemon being able to transport you across water/fly you places regardless of moves, in addition to Pokemon that know Surf or Fly. Or it could go to item route (there was a beta item in Gen I that acted the same as surf; its name was just question marks, but it was fan-named the "surfboard"). Of course, if field moves are removed entirely we would lose the free escape of Dig and be forced to use Escape Ropes (and for people who have been using these as a field moves for whatever reason, Teleport and Softboiled).

    Quote Originally Posted by szmty View Post
    I was wondering, do you think we'll still need HMs in the next games? Up to this moment, it's apparent that the new region will be based on the Île-de-France, which is completely landlocked. That made me to think that HMs like Surf and Waterfall would be pretty useless. Cut could survive, as does Strenght, and Rock Smash could be reintroduced. However, without any big lake or sea to cross, Surf could become a TM, as does Waterfall. Those HMs have never been TMs before, and I wouldn't like them to change their positions, but it's a possibility.
    Game Freak take a lot of artistic license in their designs. There was a river in the background of one of the shots, and a moat around a castle; even if there isn't a large body of water there will still be uses of Surf.

    Quote Originally Posted by szmty View Post
    Hoenn and Sinnoh had a lot of water routes and I'd love if this new region was like them. So far it seems it will not.
    Yes, Hoenn had an excess of water routes, but Sinnoh? Sinnoh only had four water routes. Technically Sinnoh does have the second most water routes (Kanto has 3, Johto and Unova have 2), but it wasn't anywhere near Hoenn's 17.

  3. #33
    Let's get funky! Gama's Avatar Former Head Administrator
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    Default Re: TM and HMs: How will they change.

    Seeing the protagonist swing across a vine in a way that didn't seem to be aided by a Pokemon makes me suspect that we might be seeing the end of most HMs in this generation. Perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions but, to me, a more physically able protagonist negates the need for a lot of HMs, though probably not Surf or Fly.

  4. #34
    Fiery passion that burns! Season's Avatar
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    Default Re: TM and HMs: How will they change.

    I'm hoping they keep both Fly & Surf, they're useful in and out of battle.

  5. #35
    Registered User Planky's Avatar
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    Default Re: TM and HMs: How will they change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gama View Post
    Seeing the protagonist swing across a vine in a way that didn't seem to be aided by a Pokemon makes me suspect that we might be seeing the end of most HMs in this generation. Perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions but, to me, a more physically able protagonist negates the need for a lot of HMs, though probably not Surf or Fly.

    Protagonist learned Strength!

  6. #36
    Geek of the Games CynthiaLover's Avatar
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    Default Re: TM and HMs: How will they change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gama View Post
    Seeing the protagonist swing across a vine in a way that didn't seem to be aided by a Pokemon makes me suspect that we might be seeing the end of most HMs in this generation. Perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions but, to me, a more physically able protagonist negates the need for a lot of HMs, though probably not Surf or Fly.
    Suddenly I'm seeing a "George of the Jungle" moment. WATCH OUT FOR THAT... BAM... never mind.

    Likewise, I can see Surf and Fly sticking around, maybe Waterfall, too. Strength may be another one that'll earn its keep. But I do hope they do more what the did in Gen V. You know, like the Strength boulders. Shove it into a hole and it's done for good. If they could do that more, then the HMs wouldn't be such a hassle. Again, Fly and Surf can stay, they are actually quite useful, with Strength and Waterfall to a lesser degree, but if they could turn some HMs into TMs (like what happened with Flash and Rock Smash), then it wouldn't be so bad.
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  7. #37
    Registered User Planky's Avatar
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    Default Re: TM and HMs: How will they change.

    Wouldn't mind the Cut trees remaining for a while, but I think they should have a timer on them so they grow back after a couple of days or so. Cutting the tree doesn't always kill it people!

  8. #38
    Let's get funky! Gama's Avatar Former Head Administrator
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    Default Re: TM and HMs: How will they change.

    Quote Originally Posted by CynthiaLover View Post
    But I do hope they do more what the did in Gen V. You know, like the Strength boulders. Shove it into a hole and it's done for good. If they could do that more, then the HMs wouldn't be such a hassle.
    That concept has been around since Gen I. Seafoam Islands? It'd be nothing new if they did include it, but I suppose making it more commonplace would be nice.

    I would also like to see Cut trees that just stay cut and never come back. Better yet, no Cut trees.

  9. #39
    Geek of the Games CynthiaLover's Avatar
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    Default Re: TM and HMs: How will they change.

    @Gama; True, but that was isolated to just one area in the whole region. In Gen V, the idea was far more commonplace, as the boulders would appear wherever, even seemingly random areas (Route 2 comes to mind). And I agree with the Cut trees. Either cut them once and they stay that way, or no Cut trees at all. It can be too much of a hassle. Plus... trees don't grow back that fast!!!
    Best Game Characters of all Time: Ryu 3, Nina 3, Ryu 2, Nina 2, Rei, Ratchet, Talwyn, Princess Pride, Megaman.EXE, Elecman.EXE, Bass. EXE, Tails, Geo, Sonia, Pit

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  10. #40
    Registered User Planky's Avatar
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    Default Re: TM and HMs: How will they change.

    These are trees which require a special move to cut them down, a move which requires a badge to use. I think it's safe to say normal rules about trees do not apply to these trees. They clearly possess magic powers.

  11. #41
    Registered User Memo326's Avatar
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    Default Re: TM and HMs: How will they change.

    Drastic, wishful-thinking idea ahead:

    - There are 50-ish TM's pre-E4. Many of them are story related (Gym Leaders' TMs, the Professor giving you Return), mostly are Gen 6 moves, and/or moves that not many (or any) Pokémon knows by level up, like Draco Meteor, Focus Blast or Hidden Power. The TMs don't have a number, and are simply listed as "[Move Name] TM" ("Fire Blast TM", "Return TM"...)

    - No HMs. The moves are turned into TMs and the places smartly designed so you can't get trapped no matter what, or you get key items to replace them, or certain Pokémon naturally have the ability to use the field moves, or whatever. Just let us delete any move we want whenever we want.

    - You get a MoveDex (or something less simply named) that lists all moves you have seen used or any of your Pokémon have used, with seen and used distinctions like the Pokédex, and you can sort them by type, category or alphabetically. From here you can also filter to "teachable" and get a list of the moves you have TMs from, and from this screen you would teach them to Pokémon (instead of the bag).

    - Now, here is where I get crazy. Like I said, 50 TMs pre-E4. But after? There is a character, that for a certain amount of BP/shards/Heart Scales/whatever, will turn a move one of your Pokémon knows into a TM. Yes, I'm talking EVERY MOVE IS A TM. This doesn't mean that a move like Sacred Fire would be teachable to anyone but Ho-oh, it just means that essentially Egg moves would all turn into TMs (which you can still breed Pokémon with, like current TMs). No more having to breed all your Pokémon. No more misclicking and forgetting an Egg move you can't get back. No more your-starter-can't-have-this-really-cool-move (though it can only have it after the E4). No more illegal move combos. You could play with changing a move in a Pokémon and not have to suffer if said move is an Egg or Tutor move. Like I said, this wouldn't (necessarily) give a Pokémon access to more moves, just make access to those it can already learn easier. It would also make for a new "catch-em-all" scenario of getting the TMs of ALL moves. Of course, some moves would cost more than others, with, say, Ember costing just 8 BP but something like Flamethrower costing 36 BP (and Fire Blast 48 BP).

    It might sound like a pipe dream, but then, who would've thought we would get infinite-use TM's?

    Feel free to criticize. I'll keep dreaming. :p

  12. #42
    Om nom watermellon Solacen's Avatar
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    Default Re: TM and HMs: How will they change.

    I think Dive could be replaced with an item "Scuba gear".

  13. #43
    My Sword Hand Twitches! Owain's Avatar
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    Default Re: TM and HMs: How will they change.

    I'd still like the move Dive to be used though, it can be used in battle before the always-late-in-the-game waterfall.

    Imagine diving... in 3D!

  14. #44
    What does the Vulpix say? Nyx's Avatar
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    Default Re: TM and HMs: How will they change.

    I hope they expand the TM list, like they did in Generation IV, from 100 to 150, and turn all HM moves into regular TMs.

  15. #45
    Simpler times ahead Mitchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: TM and HMs: How will they change.

    Make the TM moves compulsive traits of all Pokemon who were able to use them in the past. All flying Pokemon should be able automatically to fly somewhere, surfing Pokemon the same and so forth. I just don't understand how its possible for Pokemon to only be able to do something as simple as swimming with a person on their back.

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