Timeline evidence?
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Thread: Timeline evidence?

  1. #1

    Default Timeline evidence?

    This was brought up on the talk page of the History of the Pokemon World page, and I'd like to ask about it.

    What solid evidence is there that Generations 1 and 3 take place at the same time, and 2 and 4 take place at the same time? As said on the talk page, BW have shown that Platinum is the canon version for the Sinnoh games, where the Red Gyrados report didn't happen. Steven is also still the champion in HGSS and only makes vague comments about similar challengers, not to the actual events of the Hoenn games. Remember in Emerald he actually decided to leave and travel, not intending on returning for a while. I find it hard to believe that Steven would come back after his long journey to become the Hoenn champion again, only to leave for Kanto. It's unlikely his appearance in HGSS is after RSE. Also in HGSS, Cynthia doesn't mention the events of DPPt at all, so whether she's champion or not in Generation 2 is unknown and could very easily take place before Generation 4. The hiker in Hearthrome city mentions Elm's report on eggs, despite the fact that FRLG showed that pokemon eggs were around before gen 2. That simply means the hiker remembers the report from a few years ago and that Elm was the one who did the most research on the subject, as seen in HGSS. Jasmine's conversation with Erika in HGSS shows plainly that she didn't go to Sinnoh until after HGSS. And on the subject of Jasmine, before somebody brings up Rusty the Steelix, the idea of her having two pokemon with the same nickname isn't really that far-fetched. And if Jasmine traded Rusty in HGSS, then how could it be the same Rusty that appeared in contests with her in DPPt?

    It seems the main reason for the 'Gen 1 and Gen 3 take place at the same time' and 'Gen 2 and Gen 4 take place at the same time' is, as said on the mentioned talk page, trading without time travel. As said, this an extrememly flimsy justification. XD and Colloseum take place five years apart, yet both can trade with the Generation 3 games. The upcoming Black 2 and White 2 games will also likely be able to trade with the original Black and White.

    Just thought I'd put this out there.
    Last edited by Pokelad; 21st April 2012 at 02:39 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Timeline evidence?

    Its concrete enough to say they are indeed around each other, but the order is unknown. Personally FRLG>E>HGSS>Pt is the best we could possibly achieve, with the time between em unknown, outside of the 3 years between HGSS and FRLG. The real problem lies in the lack of a sturdier fact sheet for the events of RSE, unless its well within reason to believe its within the canon they created with Pt,BW/B2W2,and the remake duos.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Timeline evidence?

    We haven't seen any evidence that would place Emerald anywhere in that timeline that isn't "lack of time travel". I would like to point out however the unlikelihood of Pokemon going back in time to the Pal Park, so that would probably put it before PtHGSS.
    Also, who's to say that the whole deal with the Ruby and Sapphire to trade with RSE isn't to power some sort of time travel device?
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Timeline evidence?

    I've never worried much about the timeline of the pokemon world. most of the games are pretty well independant of each other. r/b/g/y and g/s/c (and the remakes of course) specify a 3-year gap. Otherwise, though, the games with new regions don't seem to give much indication about when they take place relative to the others. From what I can tell it doesn't matter too much either - the hoenn games, for example, don't have much if anything to do with the Kanto/Johto games, as far as the plot if concerned, so whether is happens before or after and how far before or after, really doesn't seem to make a difference. The games have somewhat weak ties to each other in the remakes (which I assume retcon the originals plot lines) to show that they are within a few years of each other at least, as hoenn characters show without looking significantly older or younger in HG and SS, but I've not noticed anything that really shows which came first or how far apart they are, etc.

    Besides that, continuity in the pokemon games has always been a bit shaky at best - Gen 2 pokemon show up in kanto 3 years after the events of the gen 1 games, and they become widespread and commonplace in that brief time, for example, but in the gen1 games (and main story of the remakes) there are literally none of them anywhere in kanto.
    The new regions being introduced since gen3 helps get around this (new places = new creatures) but you have the issue of new evolutions for old creatures (eg. ambipom, tangrowth) and new moves etc.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Timeline evidence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galladeon View Post
    We haven't seen any evidence that would place Emerald anywhere in that timeline that isn't "lack of time travel". I would like to point out however the unlikelihood of Pokemon going back in time to the Pal Park, so that would probably put it before PtHGSS.
    Also, who's to say that the whole deal with the Ruby and Sapphire to trade with RSE isn't to power some sort of time travel device?
    Possible, recalling the Time Device that featured in the original GSC. We know Bill, who created said time device, helped Celio with the machine we saw in FRLG. For all we know it could be another incarnation of the time device, remembering that it also enabled trades with Colloseum and XD. Going by that logic, we don't actually know how the Pal Parks really work. For all we know they could be using Bill's time machine.
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    Default Re: Timeline evidence?

    If time travel devices were in use, I think it would be outright stated—there's no reason for it not to be.

    Regarding Colosseum and XD, I think it makes more logical sense for them both to take place before Gens I and III. Then the postgame sandbox can be treated as years passing, thus eliminating the paradox. I don't know why the Bulbapedia article has them placed where they are.

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  7. #7

    Default Re: Timeline evidence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glitchipedia View Post
    If time travel devices were in use, I think it would be outright stated—there's no reason for it not to be.
    Considering XD and Colloseum take place years apart and both can trade with the Generation 3 games, there has to be some sort of time travel going on.

    This reminds me. Don't Gen III pokemon transferred to Gen V have 'after a long travel through time' on their status screen?
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Timeline evidence?

    Yes, though that could be due to the approximately 10 years since third gen assuming the whole theory we're trying to get evidence of here.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Timeline evidence?

    Possibly. Does it say anywhere exactly how long after Platinum that Black and White take place, though?
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Timeline evidence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokelad View Post
    Possibly. Does it say anywhere exactly how long after Platinum that Black and White take place, though?
    It can't be that long because Cynthia is in Black and White and it's implied to not be that long.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Timeline evidence?

    The Rocket Grunt that stole the part from the Kanto Power Plant has had enough time to get married and have a several year old son, and Caitlin has noticeably aged in between her Gen IV appearances and Black and White. Caitlin - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Timeline evidence?

    I honestly don't think there is a set definite timeline in Pokemon. I think each and every game takes place in its own universe, which is why in games like Black and White, N catches Reshiram in one and Zekrom in the other. Same characters, but I honestly don't think Game Freak has established a set timeline that can be followed. I think that is made evident because as someone mentioned earlier, both Orre region games can trade back in forth with the 3rd gen games with no issues at all.

    Of course though, Gen 2 obviously took place after Gen 1, but Gen 3 and the Orre games make it too complicated to map anything out perfectly.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Timeline evidence?

    From what I've seen, most if not all games take place with in a different universe and can't have the same timeline because of that. As you can see, all versions are almost exactly like one or more other versions and it would be impossible for them to be in the same universe with them being so much alike yet different. And even if you argue that a version in the generations later on exist in the same universe as one of the versions of an earlier generation it would be nearly impossible for you to link one version to another due to plot holes.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Timeline evidence?

    The Red Gyarados report still happened in Platinum. Though they took it off the TV at the start, you can meet people later who talk about it.

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Timeline evidence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchman View Post
    Its concrete enough to say they are indeed around each other, but the order is unknown. Personally FRLG>E>HGSS>Pt is the best we could possibly achieve, with the time between em unknown, outside of the 3 years between HGSS and FRLG. The real problem lies in the lack of a sturdier fact sheet for the events of RSE, unless its well within reason to believe its within the canon they created with Pt,BW/B2W2,and the remake duos.
    I'd like to have said Steven referenced the RSE trainers, but the links Bulbapedia put on his quotes to May and Brendan's articles seem too big of a leap:

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven in HgSs
    "Hi! My name is Steven. The Champion from the Hoenn region. Have we met...before? That's not possible. All the Trainers I have battled seem to have the same look, anyway. Especially the ones who gave me tough battles..."
    That's much more ambiguous than what Cynthia says in BW, who makes a direct reference to the past player character and events in Platinum:
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynthia in BW
    "What an uncanny resemblance... It's surprising to meet another Trainer who has intense eyes like that Pokémon Trainer. What's your name? ... OK. I'll remember that! <Player>, nice to meet you. I'm Cynthia. I'm a Pokémon Trainer, too, like you. I have an insatiable curiosity for researching Pokémon myths."
    [...]
    That was beyond my expectation! What an exceptional battle! You certainly bear a resemblance to that Trainer who faced Giratina... Oh, pardon me. I was just thinking out loud.
    All Steven seems to indicate is that he sucks at telling people apart. Trainers that give him tough battles can range from anyone of the Elite 4 members he had to beat, and Wallace. If I recall, Team Plasma made reference to Team Galactic and Team Rocket, but not Aqua and Magma. I feel that they may be trying to keep things ambiguous in the event they want to make remakes take place in the current generation's time :/

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