Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type - Page 6

View Poll Results: Should the Poison type become super-effective against the Water type in the next gen?

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  • Yes

    35 59.32%
  • No

    24 40.68%
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Thread: Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type

  1. #76
    From Leyend to Myth Infinity Mk-II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type

    To be honest, ultimately it's not like Poison SE Water really would do much. Poison would still be terrible except for a little "extra" for those that use STAB and Water would still be on the overpowered side, just making like two or three pokémon slightly more relevant.

    In coverage Poison would be still outclassed by Electric (+Flying which is more useful than Grass, and most moves cause paralysis to Poison's... poisoning) and Grass (Ground and Rock SE are very good things).

    So as much as I want Water nerfed and Poison buffed, this... doesn't do that. Water has better things it could lose and Poison better things to gain.
    Not like I'd oppose to it though.


    On an unrelated note, I hear Dragons. The only non-legendary, non-pseudo Dragon that is "really good" is Kingdra. Which happens to be part Water, so comparing them is a moot point.
    Last edited by Infinity Mk-II; 6th November 2012 at 07:04 PM.

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  2. #77

    Default Re: Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type

    Poison should be not only > Water, but > Fighting as well.

  3. #78
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    Default Re: Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type

    Quote Originally Posted by Anser View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H-con View Post
    I'd say that's fucking bullshit, of course you do. There's a reason to every type advantage, throwing an illogical one out there is just a stupid idea.
    Perfect, if you think you're so fucking smart tell me immediately the explanations for Bug > Dark, Psychic > Poison, Flying > Fighting and Ground > Poison because I've been waiting for YEARS for someone with your incredible wit to explain that nonsense.
    - Bugs ruin a Dark type's dirty tactics for being unpredictable
    - Psychic cures the ill
    - Have you tried to punch a bird?
    - Ground absorbs poison thus losing its effect

  4. #79
    Registered User Anser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghetsis-Dennis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Anser View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H-con View Post
    I'd say that's fucking bullshit, of course you do. There's a reason to every type advantage, throwing an illogical one out there is just a stupid idea.
    Perfect, if you think you're so fucking smart tell me immediately the explanations for Bug > Dark, Psychic > Poison, Flying > Fighting and Ground > Poison because I've been waiting for YEARS for someone with your incredible wit to explain that nonsense.
    - Bugs ruin a Dark type's dirty tactics for being unpredictable
    - Psychic cures the ill
    - Have you tried to punch a bird?
    - Ground absorbs poison thus losing its effect
    This is debatable. Many types are unpredictable, not just Bug, yet it's one of the two types that is super effective against Dark. Psychic cures the ill? Please elaborate a little bit more on this. The Flying > Fighting does make sense. Some plants can absorb the poison and make it become one of its nutrients, thus losing its effect as well.

  5. #80
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    Default Re: Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type

    Quote Originally Posted by Anser View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghetsis-Dennis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Anser View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H-con View Post
    I'd say that's fucking bullshit, of course you do. There's a reason to every type advantage, throwing an illogical one out there is just a stupid idea.
    Perfect, if you think you're so fucking smart tell me immediately the explanations for Bug > Dark, Psychic > Poison, Flying > Fighting and Ground > Poison because I've been waiting for YEARS for someone with your incredible wit to explain that nonsense.
    - Bugs ruin a Dark type's dirty tactics for being unpredictable
    - Psychic cures the ill
    - Have you tried to punch a bird?
    - Ground absorbs poison thus losing its effect
    This is debatable. Many types are unpredictable, not just Bug, yet it's one of the two types that is super effective against Dark. Psychic cures the ill? Please elaborate a little bit more on this. The Flying > Fighting does make sense. Some plants can absorb the poison and make it become one of its nutrients, thus losing its effect as well.
    Bugs are more unpredictable than the other types due to chaos theory and being mindless pests, to the point where they could ruin a prankster's trick. Psychic is an equivalent to magic, which can cure the sick and heal wounds. The plant absorbing poison claim is why Grass/Poison exists.

  6. #81
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    Default Re: Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type

    I know this is late and probably has nothing to do with the current conversation (which, I'll be honest, I haven't been keeping up with) but I'd just like to posit a theory (particularly to @Lord Clowncrete and @Takaki) that the proposed change in the type chart wouldn't really have all that much effect on Grass types, even Venusaur.

    Most non-Poison Grass types can't learn any offensive Poison moves of note to begin with, while Grass/Poisons, such as Venusaur, already have a reliable way of dealing with most Water types with their Grass type STABs. Even those Water types that a good Giga Drain or Seed Bomb can't hit super effectively (Empoleon, Tentacruel) wouldn't be especially hindered by an added Poison weakness, as their secondary types effectively cancel out that weakness regardless.

    The only major change I can see is that Venusaur now has a more reliable way of taking out Ludicolo, as if that was so hard.

    In fact, I'd go so far as to say that it might hinder Grass types, as one of the major reasons to even consider them is to combat [bulky] Water types in the metagame semi-reliably (curse those Ice Beams.) If Water gets a nerf, then the logical assumption is that Water type usage would decline (though since it's Poison we're talking about, it would be laughable to presume Water types would all of a sudden fall into disuse, meaning they'd still be very prominent, just less so than right now.) If Water type usage declines, then Grass types have less reason to be used, therefore Grass type usage declines.
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  7. #82

    Default Re: Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type

    It would allow Venasaur to run poison stab which hits dragons neutrally and poisons super effectively, leaving its only counter after a growth bring heatran.
    @Grass Type Trainer;
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  8. #83
    Registered User Lord Clowncrete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type

    Quote Originally Posted by Grass Type Trainer View Post
    I know this is late and probably has nothing to do with the current conversation (which, I'll be honest, I haven't been keeping up with) but I'd just like to posit a theory (particularly to @Lord Clowncrete and @Takaki) that the proposed change in the type chart wouldn't really have all that much effect on Grass types, even Venusaur.

    Most non-Poison Grass types can't learn any offensive Poison moves of note to begin with, while Grass/Poisons, such as Venusaur, already have a reliable way of dealing with most Water types with their Grass type STABs. Even those Water types that a good Giga Drain or Seed Bomb can't hit super effectively (Empoleon, Tentacruel) wouldn't be especially hindered by an added Poison weakness, as their secondary types effectively cancel out that weakness regardless.

    The only major change I can see is that Venusaur now has a more reliable way of taking out Ludicolo, as if that was so hard.

    In fact, I'd go so far as to say that it might hinder Grass types, as one of the major reasons to even consider them is to combat [bulky] Water types in the metagame semi-reliably (curse those Ice Beams.) If Water gets a nerf, then the logical assumption is that Water type usage would decline (though since it's Poison we're talking about, it would be laughable to presume Water types would all of a sudden fall into disuse, meaning they'd still be very prominent, just less so than right now.) If Water type usage declines, then Grass types have less reason to be used, therefore Grass type usage declines.
    Imo:
    1) I see no reason for water to be nerfed. It is not overpowered.
    2) Nerfing water does not mean that poison suddenly becomes extremely strong.
    3) Most poison types are still plagued by mediocre stats.
    4) Well, if poison could hit steel, by using..lets say acid attacks, it can potentially help roserade and venusaur.
    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
    @Pikmin1211; Pokemon Online has options for all but rotation battles. None of those you listed are competitive metagames though except Cresselia championships... I mean VGC.

  9. #84
    The best ex moderator Oswin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type

    Guys, there is no need to be hostile in a debate. If you feel you can't post without being aggressive, don't post at all.

  10. #85
    Registered User Anser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type

    Quote Originally Posted by PkmnGreen View Post
    Guys, there is no need to be hostile in a debate. If you feel you can't post without being aggressive, don't post at all.
    All I'm going to say is I hope the person who actually started being hostile also got an infraction like me.

    Anyway, back on topic:

    Maybe if Poison becomes super-effective against Water (and maybe, hopefully Fighting) in the next generation, some stronger Poison Pokémon may be introduced. There may be some mediocre Pokémon out there, but you have to learn how to use them. I've defeated several Pokémon in Random Matchups with my Arbok's Gunk Shot (it has maximum Attack). Nidoking's Earthquake (and even Poison Jab) can also deal a lot of damage when used properly.

  11. #86
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    Default Re: Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type

    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
    It would allow Venasaur to run poison stab which hits dragons neutrally and poisons super effectively, leaving its only counter after a growth bring heatran.
    @Grass Type Trainer;
    Sludge Bomb already is a very viable option for Venusaur as it is. The neutral coverage it provides is invaluable for a special sweeper Venusaur. The major difference would be that it could afford to run EQ over Giga Drain in order to bring down Heatran, but then it would get walled by pink blobs. Pretty much the same dilemma it currently has.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Clowncrete View Post
    Imo:
    1) I see no reason for water to be nerfed. It is not overpowered.
    2) Nerfing water does not mean that poison suddenly becomes extremely strong.
    3) Most poison types are still plagued by mediocre stats.
    4) Well, if poison could hit steel, by using..lets say acid attacks, it can potentially help roserade and venusaur.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you misunderstood. I wasn't making an argument for or against the change in the type chart (to be honest, I don't care much one way or the other.) I was suggesting that even if the change was made, Grass types and Pokemon like Venusaur and Roserade would be largely unaffected (and if they were affected, it might not be in a positive way.)
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  12. #87
    Tyranitar Supporter metalamor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type

    Just a random thought concerning a poison type Pokemon...I think Koffing/Weezing should explode when hit by fire moves...you know, noxious gasses that are extremely flammable.

  13. #88
    Registered User Anser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type

    Quote Originally Posted by metalamor View Post
    Just a random thought concerning a poison type Pokemon...I think Koffing/Weezing should explode when hit by fire moves...you know, noxious gasses that are extremely flammable.
    This would make a very interesting ability. It should be called 'Volatile'. "If hit by a Fire-type move, the user will automatically explode."

  14. #89

    Default Re: Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type

    That would then mean that the only things that wall Venasaur are terrible against everything else in the metagame. Super effective Sludge Bomb on water really would make it extremely good, since even the Pink Blobs gets beaten because the opponent could still opt to run Giga Drain, making Venasaur even more versatile. Venasaur is currently an A group threat and a move with increduble coverage that allows it to better switch into Politoed would likely make it S.
    PM me and I'll rate your team.

  15. #90
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    Default Re: Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type

    Quote Originally Posted by metalamor View Post
    Just a random thought concerning a poison type Pokemon...I think Koffing/Weezing should explode when hit by fire moves...you know, noxious gasses that are extremely flammable.
    Will it be more like Seldestruct/Explosion where the opponent survives, or will it be an instant OHKO? Regardless, Weezing still enjoys its Levitate ability.

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