Thread: Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type

Originally Posted by H-con

/snip

Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu

While poison can contaminate water, water can just as well dilute poison until it's basically ineffective /snip

I'm not advocating that Water should get more SEs (it should stay the same), but I'd rather see Water SEing Poison than vice versa.

^ This argument can be used for a lot of typings. Heat evapourates water, some plants do well in the snow, a couple species of tarantula can eat birds...
I could go on, but I think the point is clear. It's still logical IMO.

It might take some getting used to, but the environmentalist in me is saying "HELLS YEAH!"
As far as "balancing" the metagame though, I really don't think it'll make much of a difference.
Poison will still suck regardless, I think the change would be mostly flavour.

I can't understand how some people want Water to become super-effective against Poison. I mean, powering Water even more and making Poison suck even more as well?? Come on!! .___.

I actually think Poison should go back to being SE against Bug, like it was in the first gen, but yeah, I also support it being good against Water, too. Giving it only Grass is just too cruel.

Originally Posted by Green Zubat

I actually think Poison should go back to being SE against Bug, like it was in the first gen, but yeah, I also support it being good against Water, too. Giving it only Grass is just too cruel.

Especially since most Grass types are paired with the Poison type itself, nullifying its effectiveness. It's unfair.

Originally Posted by Green Zubat

I actually think Poison should go back to being SE against Bug, like it was in the first gen, but yeah, I also support it being good against Water, too. Giving it only Grass is just too cruel.

Wouldn't that give Parasect and Levanny a whooping 3 4x weaknesses, which is more horrid than you can imagine?

Originally Posted by Reynbowz

Originally Posted by H-con

/snip

Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu

While poison can contaminate water, water can just as well dilute poison until it's basically ineffective /snip

I'm not advocating that Water should get more SEs (it should stay the same), but I'd rather see Water SEing Poison than vice versa.

^ This argument can be used for a lot of typings. Heat evapourates water, some plants do well in the snow, a couple species of tarantula can eat birds...
I could go on, but I think the point is clear. It's still logical IMO.

Water stops fire from getting oxygen and extinguishes fire. If water and fire come in contact, the fire will most likely be extinguished unless the fire was started by potassium.
Some plants do well in the snow. That is what Abomasnow is based on. Plants which survive the snow are exceptions and not a rule.

SOME Tarantula can eat small birds or baby birds. Again that is an exception. Majority of the bugs like caterpillars are easy target for birds.(We also have Galvantula destroying birds, just incase you want press it further. )

As far as "balancing" the metagame though, I really don't think it'll make much of a difference.

Agreed.

Well, all those Grass/Poison types would become way better,resistance-wise, and venusaur would be even better, as well as a few other 'mons.

Originally Posted by BlackGroudon

Well, all those Grass/Poison types would become way better,resistance-wise, and Venusaur would be even better, as well as a few other 'mons.

I see no problem with this. :P

Sun based offensive is already ruymoured as being suspect. We don't exactly want Venasaur getting any better.

No. Seriously, no. Sure, Water can be Poisoned and become dangrous for animals to drink due to diease or whatever. Also, you might get dieases from just touching curtain things that are contamenated. But Water can also prevent diseases. That is why you should wash your hands often.

I bealive that the type chart is totally fine as it is. Nintendo and Game Freak probly sat down for months on end trying to figure this out. There is a reason why every type is not very effective against anouther type, or super effective against a type, regularly effective, and not even effective at all. You just need to think a little outside of the box, and not just think of Poison as just Poison.

Originally Posted by Ghetsis-Dennis

Originally Posted by Green Zubat

I actually think Poison should go back to being SE against Bug, like it was in the first gen, but yeah, I also support it being good against Water, too. Giving it only Grass is just too cruel.

Wouldn't that give Parasect and Levanny a whooping 3 4x weaknesses, which is more horrid than you can imagine?

Is that really so big of a deal? I mean, they're already pretty shit as is*. Giving them another 4x weakness only further highlights their inherent problems, and perhaps would encourage GF to sort them out e.g. by giving them unique abilities, or moves, or similar. I don't see why a whole type should have to suffer for the sake of two weak mons. You might as well have just said, "but think of the Luvdisc!"

*And this is coming from someone who likes Leavanny.

P.S. If you wanted to help Bug types like Leavanny & Parasect a bit, though, I also support the idea of Bug regaining its strength against Poison, making Bug & Poison SE against each other, as it was in Gen I.

Originally Posted by Green Zubat

I actually think Poison should go back to being SE against Bug, like it was in the first gen, but yeah, I also support it being good against Water, too. Giving it only Grass is just too cruel.

I agree with the first statement, they should have kept it super effective against Bug in the transition to Gen 2. After releasing two new types though, I feel like they needed to stop any kind of type chart changing from then on, why change something that has been working for over a decade?

Originally Posted by Reynbowz

It's still logical IMO.

No it isn't. I think you're missing the point here, give me one good reason to why sea creatures should be more prone to damage by having toxic sludge engulf them than a creature on land. Any localized source of pollution can kill/seriously harms life around it, why are people being so exclusive to Water? Is somehow water-pollution more easy to imagine than a chimney belching out black smoke? In any case, it's very easy to add to the argument, and make it look pretty ridiculous.

That, and I think a lot of people have a hard-on for Poison and want it to be more of an offensive type...

Originally Posted by H-con

Originally Posted by Reynbowz

It's still logical IMO.

No it isn't. I think you're missing the point here, give me one good reason to why sea creatures should be more prone to damage by having toxic sludge engulf them than a creature on land. Any localized source of pollution can kill/seriously harms life around it, why are people being so exclusive to Water? Is somehow water-pollution more easy to imagine than a chimney belching out black smoke? In any case, it's very easy to add to the argument, and make it look pretty ridiculous.

I don't really see how this argument goes against Water being weak to Poison. If anything, it suggests Water & Flying should both be weak to Poison.

That, and I think a lot of people have a hard-on for Poison and want it to be more of an offensive type...

There's a difference between "more offensive" and "offensive at all". Seriously, when was the last time you taught a mon a Poison move for type coverage? Because I know I haven't. The only times I've ever taught Pokes Poison moves is for STAB and/or secondary effects.

At the end of the day, what this all boils down to is that Poison is useless offensively. All the other types can be used for attack, and I see no reason Poison shouldn't either. Water is a perfectly justifiable target for poison, considering the whole water pollution thing, and Water's so strong already, why not let it happen?

P.S.

Originally Posted by Sumomo

Originally Posted by Green Zubat

I actually think Poison should go back to being SE against Bug, like it was in the first gen, but yeah, I also support it being good against Water, too. Giving it only Grass is just too cruel.

I agree with the first statement, they should have kept it super effective against Bug in the transition to Gen 2. After releasing two new types though, I feel like they needed to stop any kind of type chart changing from then on, why change something that has been working for over a decade?

I wouldn't call Poison-type users having to work around the type's terrible offensive qualities as "working". Besides, just because it's been a while since the type chart's had a shake-up, why should that mean it can't happen ever again?

Originally Posted by Green Zubat

I don't really see how this argument goes against Water being weak to Poison. If anything, it suggests Water & Flying should both be weak to Poison.

If we are to reduce all type resistance to something like this, then surely Normal, Ground, Fighting, Bug and Flying to name a few should also take SE damage from Poison as well as Water. You do realize how silly that sounds, right?

To use another example of this logic, think of Fire. Fire kills things pretty effectively (Normal, Ground, Flying), heat kills aquatic creatures pretty good (Water), it burns away toxins (Poison), it weakens fighting-spirit (Fighting). This argument can be extended to many more types, but I think that is enough. This is not very different from the Poison type logic, it's just that people only focus on one or two types. That doesn't mean it's right to use these chains of thoughts.

There's a difference between "more offensive" and "offensive at all". Seriously, when was the last time you taught a mon a Poison move for type coverage? Because I know I haven't. The only times I've ever taught Pokes Poison moves is for STAB and/or secondary effects.

At the end of the day, what this all boils down to is that Poison is useless offensively. All the other types can be used for attack, and I see no reason Poison shouldn't either. Water is a perfectly justifiable target for poison, considering the whole water pollution thing, and Water's so strong already, why not let it happen?

Again, you are completely missing the point. You try to take Poison as a type, put it into a role that it's really not meant to and try to weaken an already fairly balanced type (IMO). Also, the whole "water-pollution" thing is really odd to me, it's like other forms of pollution stop existing.

Once again, please tell me why aquatic creatures should be more prone to poisoning than terrestrial animals, and maybe I'd be more prone to seeing the point. Up until then all I can see is people trying to unnecessarily change the typing to fit their image of how they want things to be.