Thread: Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type

I think both should be effective against each other.

If you throw poison in a glass full of water and give to someone drink, they will get poisoned.
But if a poisoned person drinks lots of water, the poison may fade way of their body (I have read this somewhere, but I am not really sure).

Anyway, making Poison SE against Water would make the type way more useful...
I like some Pokémon of this type, but it is quite pointless to use them in-game, since their offensive capabilities are poor.

Originally Posted by H-con

Do people even reality?

If not, read:

Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu

While poison can contaminate water, water can just as well dilute poison until it's basically ineffective, so unless they're going to be mutually super-effective or something I don't think it's going to work.

I'm not advocating that Water should get more SEs (it should stay the same), but I'd rather see Water SEing Poison than vice versa.

|: But that would make the Poison type even worst than it already is... It would be weak against the most common type in the game!!

Why should Poison be strong against Water? While it'd definitely be realistic and logical, when have Nintendo games had the need to be realistic and logical anyway? Poison doesn't need to be strong against Water, or even vice versa. Some type match-ups were changed in the transition from Gen I to II, but that was just to help balance the metagame. Would this balance the metagame? No.

Originally Posted by Pidgeot

Why should Poison be strong against Water? While it'd definitely be realistic and logical, when have Nintendo games had the need to be realistic and logical anyway?.

Because a lot of the type match-ups are realistic and logical.

And because Poison is a weak type and Water is very strong, balancing both wouldn't hurt.

Originally Posted by Mantis

Originally Posted by Pidgeot

Why should Poison be strong against Water? While it'd definitely be realistic and logical, when have Nintendo games had the need to be realistic and logical anyway?.

Because a lot of the type match-ups are realistic and logical.

And because Poison is a weak type and Water is very strong, balancing both wouldn't hurt.

It still wouldn't achieve anything. Poison's offensive power is awful, so giving it another advantage won't help at all, and it definitely won't balance anything.

Originally Posted by Pidgeot

Originally Posted by Mantis

Originally Posted by Pidgeot

Why should Poison be strong against Water? While it'd definitely be realistic and logical, when have Nintendo games had the need to be realistic and logical anyway?.

Because a lot of the type match-ups are realistic and logical.

And because Poison is a weak type and Water is very strong, balancing both wouldn't hurt.

It still wouldn't achieve anything. Poison's offensive power is awful, so giving it another advantage won't help at all, and it definitely won't balance anything.

I think it certainly would. We're not adding a weakness to whatever type, we're adding it to the most common type in the game. This would make Poison types useful, at least a little bit, for once. Also, it would nerf Water a bit, because it's overpowered.

Originally Posted by Anser

|: But that would make the Poison type even worst than it already is... It would be weak against the most common type in the game!!

I never said it was a change that I'd want to see, I'm just saying that would make more sense than the opposite, Poison SEing Water. What I meant was that if some change were to happen, I'd rather see Water>Poison because just having Poison>Water is stupid.

There is no argument that really can be used for Poison SEing Water that can't be extended into other types (like Normal) or can't be used to make Fire the most OP thing ever.

Originally Posted by Anser

I think it certainly would. We're not adding a weakness to whatever type, we're adding it to the most common type in the game. This would make Poison types useful, at least a little bit, for once. Also, it would nerf Water a bit, because it's overpowered.

But if Poison is already weak offensively anyway, what's the point of giving it another advantage. As a comparison, look at the Bug type. Bug's strong against three types - Dark, Grass, and Psychic. But is it strong enough to use any of those advantages? Nope. Bug's strong against one of the best types in the game, but that didn't help it in Gen I, and it still doesn't help it now. But at least Bug has some decent moves - Megahorn, U-turn and X-Scissor. All Poison has is Toxic.

Originally Posted by Pidgeot

But if Poison is already weak offensively anyway, what's the point of giving it another advantage. As a comparison, look at the Bug type. Bug's strong against three types - Dark, Grass, and Psychic. But is it strong enough to use any of those advantages? Nope. Bug's strong against one of the best types in the game, but that didn't help it in Gen I, and it still doesn't help it now. But at least Bug has some decent moves - Megahorn, U-turn and X-Scissor. All Poison has is Toxic.

Possibly because Leech Life do 20 base damage, and Butterfree, Scyther & Pinsir didn't have any bug moves. Gunk Shot = Megahorn, Poison Jab = X-Scissor, the only reason you don't see them is because poison stab is far from reliable. The only other type with a U-Turn is electric, but poison's got plenty of utility in Toxic Spikes, Clear Smog, Coil, and as you said; Toxic, if that move alone was limited to poison types you'd see some more of them...

Originally Posted by Bulletproof Scales

Originally Posted by Pidgeot

But if Poison is already weak offensively anyway, what's the point of giving it another advantage. As a comparison, look at the Bug type. Bug's strong against three types - Dark, Grass, and Psychic. But is it strong enough to use any of those advantages? Nope. Bug's strong against one of the best types in the game, but that didn't help it in Gen I, and it still doesn't help it now. But at least Bug has some decent moves - Megahorn, U-turn and X-Scissor. All Poison has is Toxic.

Possibly because Leech Life do 20 base damage, and Butterfree, Scyther & Pinsir didn't have any bug moves. Gunk Shot = Megahorn, Poison Jab = X-Scissor, the only reason you don't see them is because poison stab is far from reliable. The only other type with a U-Turn is electric, but poison's got plenty of utility in Toxic Spikes, Clear Smog, Coil, and as you said; Toxic, if that move alone was limited to poison types you'd see some more of them...

But what I'm saying is that Poison has nothing in the way of offense, and all of the moves that you said aren't offensive either.

Originally Posted by Pidgeot

Originally Posted by Bulletproof Scales

Originally Posted by Pidgeot

But if Poison is already weak offensively anyway, what's the point of giving it another advantage. As a comparison, look at the Bug type. Bug's strong against three types - Dark, Grass, and Psychic. But is it strong enough to use any of those advantages? Nope. Bug's strong against one of the best types in the game, but that didn't help it in Gen I, and it still doesn't help it now. But at least Bug has some decent moves - Megahorn, U-turn and X-Scissor. All Poison has is Toxic.

Possibly because Leech Life do 20 base damage, and Butterfree, Scyther & Pinsir didn't have any bug moves. Gunk Shot = Megahorn, Poison Jab = X-Scissor, the only reason you don't see them is because poison stab is far from reliable. The only other type with a U-Turn is electric, but poison's got plenty of utility in Toxic Spikes, Clear Smog, Coil, and as you said; Toxic, if that move alone was limited to poison types you'd see some more of them...

But what I'm saying is that Poison has nothing in the way of offense, and all of the moves that you said aren't offensive either.

And this is the exact reason why we think that adding the advantage against Water is a good option. To improve the type offensively. Poison Jab, Sludge Bomb and Gunk Shot are rarely seen taking advantage of STAB because there's only one type weak to it and it's commonly paired with Poison itself, neutralizing its effect. Plus, Toxic is not exclusive to Poison-types, so...

Originally Posted by Anser

And this is the exact reason why we think that adding the advantage against Water is a good option. To improve the type offensively. Poison Jab, Sludge Bomb and Gunk Shot are rarely seen taking advantage of STAB because there's only one type weak to it and it's commonly paired with Poison itself, neutralizing its effect. Plus, Toxic is not exclusive to Poison-types, so...

Well I suppose Poison Jab and Sludge Bomb are decent moves, but Gunk Shot has just too low accuracy. Really any accuracy lower than 80 is too risky for me.

But anyway, what I'm saying is that even if Poison does get an advantage over Water, it might not even help it that much. Arguably the strongest type, Steel, is immune to it, and making Water to it might not even change much anyway. But if Poison was strong against Dragon instead, it would make it strong against the second strongest type, and that would probably help it out more than an advantage to Water instead.

Originally Posted by Bulletproof Scales

Originally Posted by Pidgeot

But if Poison is already weak offensively anyway, what's the point of giving it another advantage. As a comparison, look at the Bug type. Bug's strong against three types - Dark, Grass, and Psychic. But is it strong enough to use any of those advantages? Nope. Bug's strong against one of the best types in the game, but that didn't help it in Gen I, and it still doesn't help it now. But at least Bug has some decent moves - Megahorn, U-turn and X-Scissor. All Poison has is Toxic.

Possibly because Leech Life do 20 base damage, and Butterfree, Scyther & Pinsir didn't have any bug moves. Gunk Shot = Megahorn, Poison Jab = X-Scissor, the only reason you don't see them is because poison stab is far from reliable. The only other type with a U-Turn is electric, but poison's got plenty of utility in Toxic Spikes, Clear Smog, Coil, and as you said; Toxic, if that move alone was limited to poison types you'd see some more of them...

How exactly does limiting toxic to poison types make any difference?

The only Pokemoon I can see getting better because of this is Toxicroak who would be a little less awful against opposing rain teams.

Originally Posted by Takaki

The only Pokemoon I can see getting better because of this is Toxicroak who would be a little less awful against opposing rain teams.

That's only because of his Fighting typing, correct? Poison types deserved better than that and can't rely on having Water, Fighting, Steel, Dragon, or Ground as a secondary type to do better in battle forever. Just look at that lava lamp fakemon Smogon created for example.