Should N be considered a rival?

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    Default Should N be considered a rival?

    I mean, he's filling the role of a rival as any rival can get. The player battles him periodically in the games, he is able to be rebattled infinitely at the end of Black and White 2, and he opposes the viewpoints of the player like most rivals in the series. If Wally is considered a rival, then shouldn't N be as well? If you ask me, N fills the role of a rival more than Wally does. In the manga, N is even given a starter Pokemon, so he is given the rival treatment even more there. Just food for thought.

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    Default Re: Should N be considered a rival?

    Anti-Hero. He's fitting in as a rival in B/W along with Belle & Cheren (rivals/friends) for battles while they are the ones with the other starters. It puts a good spin on the usual role and fit's in with the popular mechanic used in a lot of entertainment now.

    Overall, considering the usual role of a rival, it seems that Cheren best fit's it because you are competing to become the champion while progressing though the game and he has the advantage starter Pokemon.

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    Default Re: Should N be considered a rival?

    Yes and no.

    He has all the characteristics of a rival. But all the "rivals" do not belong to the "evil" side of the Pokedom.(discounting the attitudes of a couple of them). I would rather say N is a combination of Barry and Cyrus.
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    Default Re: Should N be considered a rival?

    He's not really a Rival to me, as he's the leader of the enemy team he's more of an enemy because of the things he does in Black and White.

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    Default Re: Should N be considered a rival?

    Well even though N may have played the role of a villain in the first set of games, he was never depicted as truly "evil". Yeah, the label "antihero" truly describes him. But just because N is part of a villainous team doesn't make him automatically not a rival. Like I said before, N is consistently battled throughout the games and he even became the Pokemon League champion at the end like Blue did. He plays the role of a rival although his background may deter him from earning the "rival" title. I wonder why not a lot of people have realized this subject. In my opinion, this should really grow into an official debate that will aim to give N the title he deserves (or at least on the affirmative side).

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    Default Re: Should N be considered a rival?

    Both. Since he's part of Plasma in BW I would say he's more like TR executives and Saturn and them. The only thing that makes him like a Rival is the amount of times he's battled and the fact you battle him after the E4, but keep in mind you don't battle the champion this time.

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    Default Re: Should N be considered a rival?

    Yes. I consider him to be a "rival antagonist"...uh that sounded better in my head. Anyways, he doubles as a rival and as the leader of an evil organization.

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    Default Re: Should N be considered a rival?

    N is not a rival, he is the leader of an evil organization like Giovanni, Archie, Maxie, and Cyrus before him, though he's more of a heroic villain than just pure evil. If he was ever a rival, he should've gotten one of the starters on his team.

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    Default Re: Should N be considered a rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghetsis-Dennis View Post
    N is not a rival, he is the leader of an evil organization like Giovanni, Archie, Maxie, and Cyrus before him, though he's more of a heroic villain than just pure evil. If he was ever a rival, he should've gotten one of the starters on his team.
    Funny, I don't remember Wally getting a Hoenn Starter. Unless I missed something major, in which case, please fill me in.
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    Default Re: Should N be considered a rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grass Type Trainer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghetsis-Dennis View Post
    N is not a rival, he is the leader of an evil organization like Giovanni, Archie, Maxie, and Cyrus before him, though he's more of a heroic villain than just pure evil. If he was ever a rival, he should've gotten one of the starters on his team.
    Funny, I don't remember Wally getting a Hoenn Starter. Unless I missed something major, in which case, please fill me in.
    Wally isn't considered to be a true rival since you don't face him that much in Hoenn compared to your opposite gender rival nor does he have a Hoenn starter.

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    Default Re: Should N be considered a rival?

    Well Wally IS deemed as a rival officially. On the Bulbapedia rivals page, Wally is listed as one of the Hoenn rivals. As for the starter thing, true N did not receive a starter in the games but neither did Wally. In the manga however, N is in possession of White's Tepig. So unless that changes, I think the manga deems N as one of those "non-Pokedex rivals". As for the people saying N can't be a rival because he's a villainous team leader, that's not true. Ghetsis was the true evil. N defected at the end anyway. And besides, we have a rival that's the SON of a villainous team leader (although he's not a part of it, just by relations). Btw are any of the officials looking at this? Would it be automatically taken off if someone edits N as one of the Unova rivals on the main page? It looks like more people are supportive of listing N as one of the rivals than not.

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    Default Re: Should N be considered a rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by lolipiece View Post
    Well Wally IS deemed as a rival officially. On the Bulbapedia rivals page, Wally is listed as one of the Hoenn rivals. As for the starter thing, true N did not receive a starter in the games but neither did Wally. In the manga however, N is in possession of White's Tepig. So unless that changes, I think the manga deems N as one of those "non-Pokedex rivals". As for the people saying N can't be a rival because he's a villainous team leader, that's not true. Ghetsis was the true evil. N defected at the end anyway. And besides, we have a rival that's the SON of a villainous team leader (although he's not a part of it, just by relations). Btw are any of the officials looking at this? Would it be automatically taken off if someone edits N as one of the Unova rivals on the main page? It looks like more people are supportive of listing N as one of the rivals than not.
    Bulbapedia's not an official source, and nobody's talking about Pokéspe either.

    N's not a rival in my standards, he lacks a starter pokémon, isn't trying to complete the pokédex, nor has one. Like other have said he's an anti-hero since he's not allies with the protagonist and isn't for the true villain either.


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    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should N be considered a rival?

    People need to stop looking at trends and then pretending they're steadfast rules that can't be broken or changed. People assume that there is this prototype of what a "rival" or really anything (e.g., legendary) in this game and that anything that isn't exactly like the prototype isn't part of that category. That's the problem with this fandom. Newsflash: that's not how our mind works to categorize things (on the automatic level anyway) in real life, and its certainly not how Game Freak is doing it. If that was the case, then any Legendary with a gender who can have multiple forms akin to evolution and breed is not a legendary given the precedent set by Gen I and II.

    There's a prototypic rival, and that would be someone like Blue. Then we have less prototypic ones, but are still rivals. May/Brendan for example, wouldn't even be as prototypic as Blue, Barry, Cheren, or Bianca. Unlike Wally, May/Brendan was helping Professor Birch with their research and was never in direct competition with the main character despite having a starter. Hardly a rival. Wally became direct competition by the time you were about to go through Victory Road. Silver, while getting a starter, wasn't given one, he stole it. This is in stark contrast to everyone else who had a starter as they were given it.

    N, while being Plasma boss was also a direct rival as he was in competition for the League title. In fact, the title of Champion was now being used to decide whether people and Pokemon would live together by exerting the authority of being the Champion (at least when it comes to Pokemon) on other people. So yeah, N was a more prototypic rival in this regard than May was.
    Quote Originally Posted by mwto View Post
    Both. Since he's part of Plasma in BW I would say he's more like TR executives and Saturn and them. The only thing that makes him like a Rival is the amount of times he's battled and the fact you battle him after the E4, but keep in mind you don't battle the champion this time.
    Except you do, since N is the Champion. You just don't battle him right after the Elite 4.
    Last edited by The Outrage; 3rd August 2012 at 09:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Should N be considered a rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Outrage View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mwto View Post
    Both. Since he's part of Plasma in BW I would say he's more like TR executives and Saturn and them. The only thing that makes him like a Rival is the amount of times he's battled and the fact you battle him after the E4, but keep in mind you don't battle the champion this time.
    Except you do, since N is the Champion. You just don't battle him right after the Elite 4.
    With the exception of the battle against your version mascot, N is the battle that follows the Elite 4. You literally don't fight anyone else in between. The only difference between battling N in Black/White and battling Blue in Red/Green/Blue/Yellow/FireRed/LeafGreen is the walk leading up to him. Also N's battle is actually relevant to the plot whereas Gen I barely had a plot to begin with.
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    Default Re: Should N be considered a rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grass Type Trainer View Post
    Also N's battle is actually relevant to the plot whereas Gen I barely had a plot to begin with.
    It had a plot. There was just no connection between Red and Green's rivalry, which culminated in the league, and the events with Team Rocket. Generation I and Black and White are the only games where defeating the Champion holds some weight story-wise. Black and White simply offered more to that resolution since N wasn't just a rival.

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