SPOILERS: Rumour thread (SPOILERS - ALLEGED LEAKS) - Page 182

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Thread: Rumour thread (SPOILERS - ALLEGED LEAKS)

  1. #2716
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    Can't someone who has plays the demo just view the Pokémon's status section in battle and see what the base power is? If it's at EuroGamer next month, I'll be sure to do that.
    Someone mentioned on here that the status screen was blanked out so we couldn't view the stats. Game Freak apparently knows we can do math and doesn't want us calculating the base stats.
    Guy_Spy and Silverwynde like this.

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    Eevee Breeder DarkS Umbreon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

    When's PAX Prime? I'm sure people attending that could try out new and exciting things for the benefit of the fandom. :p

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    Default Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Zweilous View Post
    As much as I'd like for a balance, GF has never really cared for balancing out their legendaries. Kyogre and Dialga blatantly beat out their counterparts and Lugia gained moves to trump Ho-oh whereas the other didn't get anything in return. Zekrom and Reshiram are the only truly balanced ones and even then Reshiram got more tools on the benefit of being a more specially oriented Pokémon and having unresisted coverage. So unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if Yveltal got the short end of the stick in this deal.
    With the exception of Kyogre and Groudon, there isn't a mascot duo in which one member is clearly and deliberately dominant over the other. Kyogre and Groudon's case more or less signifies how there is more water than land. Ho-Oh most certainly has super-effective moves to counter Lugia with, and neither have type disadvantages against each other. Plus, Lugia has very low attacking stats, so it can't really touch Ho-Oh with special moves, even when super-effective. I'd say they're quite balanced. As for Dialga, its advantage over Palkia wasn't really intentional; Game Freak simply wanted two dragons that had subtypes which reflected the game titles. In complete contrast, though, if Fairy both resists and deals super-effective damage against Dark, then Game Freak is giving a clear message that Xerneas triumphs over Yveltal, which wouldn’t be ideal for this specific duo. Life and death are very yin-yang-like concepts, so Fairy and Dark reflecting this relationship by being weak to each other would be fitting.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Outrage View Post
    But what we need to know is, was the opposing Gabite who did the critical hit was against the 31 IV or 0 IV Sylveon. I don't think we can mix and match with the assumptions that Gabite had differing IV's than Sylveon....unless @Scarftail's calculations are accurate which would suggest a 31 IV Sylveon was up against a 0 IV Gabite.
    Um, I did a damage calculation and set the Gabite at max IVs. A Lv30 Umbreon takes the same range of damage as the Lv30 Sylveon did (all of the Pokemon used in the demo had max IVs, so I assume the Gabite does as well), so based on that, it likely has the same Defense, unless they changed the damage formula as some have suggested.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Outrage View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarftail View Post
    Umbreon appears to have relatively thick skin.
    How does it appear to have thick skin? It's about as bulky looking as Sylveon, both being the same size as well and having a lean body. The only difference is one is black and one is pink.
    The ears, the tail, the neck, and the legs give me the impression that it has more 'meat' than Sylveon does. I can't see why Umbreon's defenses would be so high if its design doesn't actually represent those stats. Better put, why would Umbreon have the same Defense as Tyranitar if its body is supposedly thin and fragile? It has to have some characteristic that explains its high defenses.
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  4. #2719
    Registered User Zweilous's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarftail View Post

    With the exception of Kyogre and Groudon, there isn't a mascot duo in which one member is clearly and deliberately dominant over the other. Kyogre and Groudon's case more or less signifies how there is more water than land. Ho-Oh most certainly has super-effective moves to counter Lugia with, and neither have type disadvantages against each other. Plus, Lugia has very low attacking stats, so it can't really touch Ho-Oh with special moves, even when super-effective. I'd say they're quite balanced. As for Dialga, its advantage over Palkia wasn't really intentional; Game Freak simply wanted two dragons that had subtypes which reflected the game titles. In complete contrast, though, if Fairy both resists and deals super-effective damage against Dark, then Game Freak is giving a clear message that Xerneas triumphs over Yveltal, which wouldn’t be ideal for this specific duo. Life and death are very yin-yang-like concepts, so Fairy and Dark reflecting this relationship by being weak to each other would be fitting.
    Whether or not Kyogre/Groudon represent a concept that still doesn't negate the fact that one is at an immense disadvantage to the other and on top of that, the concept both represent are supposed to be equal as they're supposed to be engaged in a neverending fight. Same with Dialga and Palkia as time and space should be equal in concept. If they didn't care with those two groups, then there's nothing saying they will care with Yveltal and Xerneas, especially since Death as a concept that appears in traditional children stories is always played as "Evil" and thus can be on the losing side.

    As for the GS duo, Ho-oh only learns Ancientpower naturally (and isn't nearly that useful) and Lugia has fantastic defensive stats and Multiscale, though I'll admit I overlooked Thunderbolt and Thunder for both in terms of TMs (though Lugia's still at a slight advantage as it benefits more in the rain and thus can use Thunder while Ho-oh would not dare go near it).

  5. #2720
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    Default Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkS Umbreon View Post
    Crits may only do 50% more damage instead of the 100% as previous - according to @Joshawott anyway.
    In the exhibition match, Politoed did 50% critical damage to Sylveon. If this is the case, normal damage would be 33% and not 25%, which is more plausible considering Politoed had almost everything in its favor (STAB, held item, weather) when it used Hydro Pump.
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  6. #2721
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

    @Scarftail;
    Thanks for the clarification on that. I'm fairly certain then that 65 SAtk cannot OHKO a Gabite with a STAB base 60 power Fairy Wind, and I have trouble believing that it has higher base power than that.

    Too bad, it's playing more like Vaporeon rather than making a contrast with Umbreon. Kind of also sucks that this "Dragon Killer" is physically weak in its defenses since you know, most dragons have high Attack and doesn't have Vaporeon's HP to compensate. Combine that with Mega Mawile's weakness to fire and ground, and Gardevoir being defensively weak on the physical side as well....I'm beginning to question whether any fairy was made to have the stats to counter dragons or if Game Freak simply went "being Fairy is enough"

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    Registered User pastabender's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by The Outrage View Post
    @Scarftail;
    Thanks for the clarification on that. I'm fairly certain then that 65 SAtk cannot OHKO a Gabite with a STAB base 60 power Fairy Wind, and I have trouble believing that it has higher base power than that.

    Too bad, it's playing more like Vaporeon rather than making a contrast with Umbreon. Kind of also sucks that this "Dragon Killer" is physically weak in its defenses since you know, most dragons have high Attack and doesn't have Vaporeon's HP to compensate. Combine that with Mega Mawile's weakness to fire and ground, and Gardevoir being defensively weak on the physical side as well....I'm beginning to question whether any fairy was made to have the stats to counter dragons or if Game Freak simply went "being Fairy is enough"
    Yeh, but so far (discounting Sylveon) those Fairy type Pokemon are all retcons - we still have no idea on the stats of Flabebe (its evolution could surprise us), Spritzee, Swirlix, or even Xerneas. And then that's disregarding the fact that there is probably going to be a lot more Fairy Pokemon introduced.

    Spritzee is the doctor Pokemon or something yeh? I could easily see its evolution having high HP and defenses to combat dragons.

  8. #2723
    Registered User LimitCrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

    How would that explain Sylveon losing 41 HP worth of damage from a critical hit Take Down?

  9. #2724
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

    @pastabender;
    Flabébé is still weak to fire, which a lot of Dragons pair their STAB with. But true, the others haven't been revealed.

    @LimitCrown;
    Good point. So we know its 95 HP. From Scarftail's calculation, its 110 Def. Given that Sylveon survived that critical hit STAB Life orb boosted Hydropump, we know that SDef has to be high (so 130). I really hope that my initial random prediction that I made with little consideration of any other information that it's stat distribution is basically a physical/special mirror of Umbreon's is true and that there's a Draceon they didn't think was worth advertising

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    Default Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

    Umbreon is meant to be more like a (Sp)Def tank while Sylveon seems to be Special-oriented. I don't think they're really a physical/special mirror.

  11. #2726
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    Default Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by The Outrage View Post
    @pastabender;
    Flabébé is still weak to fire...
    Flabebe is pure Fairy, not Fairy/Grass.
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  12. #2727
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

    More of a reason for Flabebe to not evolve into Fairy/Grass.

  13. #2728
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    Default Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

    I still think that Fairy Wind deals 40 or 60 base damage. How did Sylveon manage to beat the Politoed?

  14. #2729
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by LimitCrown View Post
    I still think that Fairy Wind deals 40 or 60 base damage. How did Sylveon manage to beat the Politoed?
    With Moon Blast. I'd assume that's a move with 95 to 120 base power.

  15. #2730
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    Default Re: Rumour Discussion and Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by The Outrage View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LimitCrown View Post
    I still think that Fairy Wind deals 40 or 60 base damage. How did Sylveon manage to beat the Politoed?
    With Moon Blast. I'd assume that's a move with 95 to 120 base power.
    Oh, I managed to forget.

    I predict that Drain Kiss will have a base damage of 75 like the other Drain moves. Maybe we can more accurately determine Sylveon's base Sp. Attack this way. It seems like all Pokémon are IV-trained and some of the Pokémon's stats have 252 EVs like Gallade.

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