RNG "abuse": Do YOU consider it to be legit?

View Poll Results: Do YOU consider RNG to be legit?

Voters
43. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    27 62.79%
  • No

    16 37.21%
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 35
Like Tree11Likes

Thread: RNG "abuse": Do YOU consider it to be legit?

  1. #1
    Registered User BaileyPlaysPokemon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Pallet Town
    Posts
    68

    Default RNG "abuse": Do YOU consider it to be legit?

    I have been back and forth on this question for about a year now, and just wanted to see what other people think. So I ask you, is RNG legit or cheating? Through my time deciding this, I have commonly heard these arguments among MANY others.


    It's not cheating:
    1.You aren't altering the game's coding in any way

    2. The developers could have changed how eggs worked if they didn't like it

    3. It's still difficult (and thus skillful) because you have to find your secret ID, which isn't always easy

    4. It's impossible to compete against other players competitively without doing it




    It is cheating:
    1. The developer's did not intend people to RNG

    2. You still require an outside resource in order to do it

    3. Breeding was made difficult on purpose, to prevent this exact thing from happening.

    4. If you don't have time to breed Pokemon the right way, then you shouldn't be competing competitively at all. Go play Pokemon Online or Shoddy Battle if you can't take the time to breed



    there are PLENTY more things to consider, but these are the main ones I could rally off the top of my head. What do you think?
    Staff member of Bulbanews (Writer)

    Gen I lover since 1998

  2. #2
    KYUREM FORMS ERRYWHERE rubinek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    286
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: RNG "abuse": Do YOU consider it to be legit?

    I personally consider RNG an alright method for getting battle worthy Pokemon in relatively short amount of time, so I'm only going to address the "it's cheating" side arguments.

    1. The developer's did not intend people to RNG
    And how do you know that? You have absolutely no proof to support your claim, unless your dad works at Game Freak or something. No official statement was made on RNGing being bad as far as I know.

    2. You still require an outside resource in order to do it
    You require an outside resource (an IV calculator) to check your IVs too. Hell, you need an outside resource (Bulbapedia) to check the encounter ratio of Pokemon on any given route! Ban Bulba?

    3. Breeding was made difficult on purpose, to prevent this exact thing from happening.
    No proof. Next.

    4. If you don't have time to breed Pokemon the right way, then you shouldn't be competing competitively at all. Go play Pokemon Online or Shoddy Battle if you can't take the time to breed
    I think this argument would apply to the discussion about PokeSav/PokeGen much better than this one. As the OP has pointed out, RNGing is still difficult and consumes quite a bit of time. Learning RNG itself is a good 2-3 hours of work, and even then, doing your first few resets is a bit of an trail-and-error process. As the time passes on, you will obviously start getting your flawless Pokemon much quicker, but still, this initial learning phrase cannot be ignored.

    Looking forward to seeing how this thread evolves.
    White FC: 1678-3054-7710
    Black 2 FC: 3053 3827 7149

    Black 2

  3. #3
    追放されたバカ
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Uncertain
    Posts
    1,757
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: RNG "abuse": Do YOU consider it to be legit?

    It's definitely a legit method of obtaining otherwise rare Pokémon, yes. You're using a feature in the game, that the creators provided, to its fullest potential and efficiency, to get what you want. As you said, there is no altering of the game's code involved, or anything like that, it's just timing. It can also be considered a reward for people that bothered to learn that much about the mechanics of the game, I suppose, and there's nothing wrong with that.

    RNG is the Higgs boson of the Pokémon games. One of the main things that will be understood if (when) the Higgs boson is found will be vast knowledge of gravity and how to affect it, just as increased knowledge and control of breeding is a result of knowing about RNG. When the Higgs boson is found, will there be discussions regarding "cheating", or anything like that? No. Both of these situations are simply unlocking additional knowledge using the tools you're provided with.

    Comparing RNG to the Higgs boson is pushing it, I know, but you get my point.
    hurristat likes this.

  4. #4
    Merry Christmas! Oswin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    2,682
    Blog Entries
    38

    Follow Oswin on Tumblr

    Default Re: RNG "abuse": Do YOU consider it to be legit?

    Quote Originally Posted by rubinek View Post
    And how do you know that? You have absolutely no proof to support your claim, unless your dad works at Game Freak or something. No official statement was made on RNGing being bad as far as I know.
    Of course it's cheating, you're manipulating the game in your favour. No official statement has been made? Well of course not, they're not going to tell us how to play our own games, even when they made them.

    3. It's still difficult (and thus skillful) because you have to find your secret ID, which isn't always easy
    I don't see how difficulty affects if it's cheating or not, of course it's going to be hard.
    Last edited by Oswin; 21st December 2011 at 04:17 PM.

  5. #5
    Who am I? Joshawott's Avatar Forum Head
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Cambridge, UK
    Posts
    10,986
    Blog Entries
    15
    Follow Joshawott On Twitter
    Follow Joshawott on Tumblr Visit Joshawott's Youtube Channel

    Default Re: RNG "abuse": Do YOU consider it to be legit?

    You need your secret ID to RNG...yet is there a legitimate way to find your secret ID?

    Honestly, I don't know whether or not to count it as cheating. After all, what does TPCi's ban on "using external devices" to modify Pokémon etc actually mean? Can an RNG reporter be considered an "external device"? I don't know. However, I will say that I don't consider it very fair on those who don't RNG (either on moral grounds or simply not understanding it).

    If I know a Pokémon is RNGed and I battle it, I generally don't care though. I've had Pokémon traded to me that are RNGed and I can breed Pokémon to the level of an RNGed one; it takes time, but it's possible. It's only with things like Thundurus and Tornadus where it starts to get on my nerves.

  6. #6
    追放されたバカ
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Uncertain
    Posts
    1,757
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: RNG "abuse": Do YOU consider it to be legit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    You need your secret ID to RNG...yet is there a legitimate way to find your secret ID?
    If you mean legitimate as in simply not using an Action Replay, then yes, there is in Gen IV.

  7. #7
    Who am I? Joshawott's Avatar Forum Head
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Cambridge, UK
    Posts
    10,986
    Blog Entries
    15
    Follow Joshawott On Twitter
    Follow Joshawott on Tumblr Visit Joshawott's Youtube Channel

    Default Re: RNG "abuse": Do YOU consider it to be legit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corpus Juris Civilis View Post
    If you mean legitimate as in simply not using an Action Replay, then yes, there is in Gen IV.
    Stupid question of the day then: How?

    So that means Generation V RNG still requires an Action Replay to find out your secret ID? =3.

  8. #8
    追放されたバカ
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Uncertain
    Posts
    1,757
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: RNG "abuse": Do YOU consider it to be legit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    Stupid question of the day then: How?
    I'm not sure how it works from memory because I thought it looked way too hard at the time, and I have an Action Replay so I just used that. I know for sure that there is a way to do it, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    So that means Generation V RNG still requires an Action Replay to find out your secret ID? =3.
    Maybe so, or it just hasn't been discovered yet.

  9. #9
    KYUREM FORMS ERRYWHERE rubinek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    286
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: RNG "abuse": Do YOU consider it to be legit?

    There are numerous methods to find out your ID/SID without cheating. You can capture a random shiny or several chained ones and do a bit of math. Then, there's a Red Gyarados trick in HG/SS, as well as the Radio Tower one. But the easiest one has to be checking it via PokeCheck or IR-GTS. If you don't know what are these, look it up in google. And if that method doesn't suit your tastes, then you can simply RNG your preferred ID/SID combo at the start of the game (which is very easy in BW btw) and be done with it.

    It should also be noted that ID/SID is needed for shinies only. You can easily have a legion of flawless Pokemon without knowing your SID (which is the main concern of this discussion), just they won't be shiny.
    White FC: 1678-3054-7710
    Black 2 FC: 3053 3827 7149

    Black 2

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    199

    Default Re: RNG "abuse": Do YOU consider it to be legit?

    I must say yes. You're not even using external devices such as Action Replay or anything, all you need is "patience". Yes, there are devices such as RNG Reporter and PokeRNG, but I must say they weren't "external devices" since you do not connect the game with it, it just acts as a guide for RNG abusing Pokemon. I'm an RNG abuser myself, and RNG abusing is really easy if you learn it, but just like what I've said above, all you need is "patience", because there's a time that you might not hit the right mark and you have to start again until you finally done it. It's much easier to RNG abuse in Generation V than in Generation IV anyway. :)

  11. #11
    Registered User Hammerite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: RNG "abuse": Do YOU consider it to be legit?

    The term "legit" to some players means "passes legitimacy checks designed to detect hacked pokemon", by which definition RNG'd pokemon are legit. There is no objective test you can apply to determine whether a pokemon was definitely created using RNG abuse or was just the result of very good luck in breeding.

    So I avoid the term "legit". But I regard RNGing to be an exploit and I don't want RNG'd pokemon. They are worthless to me.
    White FC: 4212 5061 5447. Pokédex status
    I'm interested in trading for foreign-language Pokédex ticks I don't yet have, and trading to Geonet locations I haven't traded to yet (see link). VM/PM me about it!

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    199

    Default Re: RNG "abuse": Do YOU consider it to be legit?

    Well, catching an RNG abused Pokemon is just like catching an ordinary Pokemon, just that you have to start the game on the right minute, second, and millisecond depending on your spread and that you have to do things like doing head/tails Magikarp thingy in D/P/Pt, and calling Elm in HG/SS to confirm if you hit the correct seed on your spread. So RNG abused Pokemon is just the same as ordinary non-RNG abused Pokemon when it comes to legitimacy since you didn't even used an AR or Gameshark anyway.

  13. #13
    Registered User Arcanine03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    116

    Default Re: RNG "abuse": Do YOU consider it to be legit?

    Personally, I am not a fan of RNG abuse. I will concede that the pokemon obtained weren't created via some outside source. However, it still feels like tampering to me. I would relate the RNG abuse to a loaded dice. Once you learn how to do this method, you have essentially guaranteed an outcome to a normally random event (and in this sense I do mean random and not setup by flipping the coin/doing an action at a precise time/etc...). I do not battle competitively and so I may be a little biased in the sense that I don't require my pokemon to perfect. Regardless, this method takes away the mystery and probablities that are a fundamental piece of playing pokemon. I would feel cheated if I got the strongest pokemon with the best stats just by exploiting a system someone found hidden in the code because it required little effort on my part. I don't judge people who use this method, but it takes a lot of meaning out of the game for me.

  14. #14
    Requiem Raver Drakon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Aboard the Hikokyu II
    Posts
    2,270
    Blog Entries
    28

    Default Re: RNG "abuse": Do YOU consider it to be legit?

    It's technically not cheating but it is a little unfair if it is not disclosed.
    What are the Legendaries really like? Find out in The Life of the Legendaries

    Humans and pokémon no longer live in harmony. Hear their tales in The Poké Wars Chronicles: Tales From A World At War

    Cynthia once had it all: powerful pokémon, fame and hordes of adoring fans. But Ho-oh's campaign tears her life asunder. Now to survive this deadly new world, she must do the one thing that she never wanted: kill. Follow her trials through a world at war in Poké Wars: Downfall of a Champion

  15. #15
    Registered User Pariah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    1,246
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: RNG "abuse": Do YOU consider it to be legit?

    I dont see anything wrong with RNGing. I mean,even if the chances are slim you still can get flawless pokemon without having to manipulate your nintendo DS clock. So, what's the difference?
    My life is a nightmare

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •