Retconning Pokémon

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    The Man of Squirtles SquirtleMan493's Avatar
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    Default Retconning Pokémon

    For those unfamiliar with the term, a retcon is this: Urban Dictionary: retcon

    I'm wondering with all the new innovations to the series is it time that some Pokémon were retconned in terms of stats, gender exclusivity, evolution methods, or even typing?

    Looking back on it, moves are retconned all the time with a lot of them being buffed in Gen 5; however, Pokémon themselves, even with the advent of Dream World abilities, are left behind and forgotten in terms of strength or usefulness. Thus far the only retcons to Pokémon themselves have been:

    -Magnemite and Magneton becoming part Steel.
    -Rotom's forms becoming part of the type of whatever move they received.
    -Feebas's evolution to Milotic via Prism Scale.

    That's all that comes to mind, but are some obvious ones that should be implemented or at least considered:
    -Bumping up a few stats for some older Pokémon. Sometimes all a Pokémon needs is a 20 point or so bump to Attack/Sp.Attack/Speed to become useful.
    -Simplifying the vast amount of trade evolutions to simply require holding the item and leveling up (during time of day or not).
    -Introducing new evolution stones are reapplying existing ones were applicable (Leaf Stone = Leafeon).
    -Making certain Pokémon gender specific (Gardevoir being only female).
    -Making Azurill Water type and NOT Normal like it currently is (I still feel this was a mistake).
    -Adding subtypes to make some Pokémon more interesting (Luxio and Luxray being part Dark or the Gothita line part Dark).

    I'm drawing a lot of these ideas from some fan "hacks", but the point still remains. Since we're moving into the 3D animation, why not make some long needed changes to Pokémon while we're at it? I don't think anyone would complain too much at this point.
    Last edited by Oswin; 20th February 2013 at 07:48 PM.

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    Not even my final form GreatLiver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Retconning Pokémon

    Removing the necessity of Incenses. It may piss some people off who don't want to always have to deal with a baby stage, but it's getting excessive to have so many items just to get a pokemon you'll never use, and only want to fill your dex.

    I really wouldn't not mind a lot of these. Also lowering some evolution levels. Gen V just introduced too many things that are never useful because they don't evolve for for-fucking-ever.

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    The Man of Squirtles SquirtleMan493's Avatar
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    Default Re: Retconning Pokémon

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatLiver View Post
    I really wouldn't not mind a lot of these. Also lowering some evolution levels. Gen V just introduced too many things that are never useful because they don't evolve for for-fucking-ever.
    Relative to the Pokémon placement in BW the levels aren't too bad, but when being used in other games I can see how their levels would be an issue. Honestly a lot of them need to have their levels edited accordingly in the future.

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    Sometimes I draw things. Finicky Fennekin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Retconning Pokémon

    Quote Originally Posted by SquirtleMan493
    -Making certain Pokémon gender specific (Gardevoir being only female).
    Nooooooo thank you. I'd hate to transfer any of my 'mons to the new games and have their gender change. ( ´△`)
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    Default Re: Retconning Pokémon

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatLiver View Post
    Removing the necessity of Incenses. It may piss some people off who don't want to always have to deal with a baby stage, but it's getting excessive to have so many items just to get a pokemon you'll never use, and only want to fill your dex.

    I really wouldn't not mind a lot of these. Also lowering some evolution levels. Gen V just introduced too many things that are never useful because they don't evolve for for-fucking-ever.
    I concur, keeping this for the sake of maintaining older results of breeding from earlier gens is silly. On that, though, I think the dex as it is also needs a vast reworking. Due to the advent of gender differences and separate forms that can have separate stats as well, what reason do we have of keeping Nidoran as two separate entries. Merge them into one species and have it evolve according to gender. Along with it, fix Nidorina and Nidoqueen so they can breed. However, there are additional problems associated to this, mainly stuff like Volbeat/Illumise and the Latis in that they are also the same species and don't evolve from something, and have separate names. I was going to propose both names being the same entry based on gender, but then, someone threw an interesting thought to me: why even number it at all? Long ago, Digimon was also numbered, but this idea was later retconned and is no longer even thought of. They had numbered something over 500 creatures before stopping the practice. Pokemon now has way more than that. This also resolves another problem I have with the dex, in that evolution families are broken up. True, the regional dexes fix this problem by themselves, but I think the National needs to do it, too. A question also brought up was why does Mew come after Mewtwo when Mew was obviously discovered first and then Mewtwo was cloned from it? I know the real world answer, but within the pokemon world, this doesn't make sense. I would propose other evolution retcons, but I am afraid people would have my head over such proposals.
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    Default Re: Retconning Pokémon

    Quote Originally Posted by Samurott View Post
    Along with it, fix Nidorina and Nidoqueen so they can breed.
    Of all the 'but it doesn't make sense!' moments in the Pokemon world, this one probably bugs the shit out of me the most. Probably because Nidoqueen is my favourite pokemon ever, but all subjectivity aside why the heck can't she breed?? Anyways, what was I saying? Oh yes, I agree with you. The Nido lines need to merge.

    I'm wondering if any of the Unova pokemon introduced last gen will get an additional typing in gen 6, particularly if a lot of fans get their wish and a new type is introduced. It happened to Magnemite so it may happen again...

    I breed egg move pokes & DW females.

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    Bulbapædist Zeta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Retconning Pokémon

    I would definitely sign up for buffing Pokemon base stats by 10 or 20 on a case by case basis and getting rid of Incense.
    -Making Azurill Water type and NOT Normal like it currently is (I still feel this was a mistake).
    I thought it was supposed to be based on terrestrial mammals that need to be taught to swim - like baby otters.
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    Default Re: Retconning Pokémon

    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky Fennekin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SquirtleMan493
    -Making certain Pokémon gender specific (Gardevoir being only female).
    Nooooooo thank you. I'd hate to transfer any of my 'mons to the new games and have their gender change. ( ´△`)
    It wouldn't be much of an impact. Pokémon genders doesn't really mean much. It matters when you're breeding however, but otherwise, it's not much. However, when you realize that there are male Gardevoirs... urgh.... you know there's something wrong there...
    I'm all in for fixing that in Gen. VI.
    Kirlia should evolve into Gardevoir if female or Gallade if male. I'd also suggest to create a male forme for Kirlia too (not a separate Pokémon, but a different sprite for a male Kirlia).
    Also, both Nidorans should be fusioned in some way, or at least make Nidorina and/or Nidoqueen able to breed.

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    flap flap hyperspeed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Retconning Pokémon

    I just really wish they'd make Lugia a Water-type instead of a Psychic-type, makes much more sense that way.

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    is back for 2014 S.S. Shadow Minun's Avatar
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    Default Re: Retconning Pokémon

    Quote Originally Posted by Samurott View Post
    fix Nidorina and Nidoqueen so they can breed.
    I would agree with this. But why not fixing the entire egg group systems? There are many big problems, such as Oshawott cannot breed with other Water starters excluding Piplup.

    However, I think HSOWA is the only one thing that shall not be fixed aside this (as Skitty and Wailord are mammals).

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    Get Wild Rainbow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Retconning Pokémon

    Extremely minor compared to the other ideas, but I'd like to see some shinies get somewhat different colors. Particularly Nidoqueen. I hate how I can't have a blue Nidoking and a pink Nidoqueen >:I

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    Ice Type Master Disobedient's Avatar
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    Default Re: Retconning Pokémon

    I agree that the whole National Pokedex should be retconned. I mean it is the NATIONAL Pokedex which means all the discoveries of PokeNation are gathered in ONE Dex. Therefore cross-generational families should be put together as well as other things like Regigigas after the three Regis and likewise.

    Secondly, some Pokemon typings are wasted or doesn't make sense. I'd like some minor adjustments like Gothi-family being part Dark.

    That's all for now. :)
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    Default Re: Retconning Pokémon

    The only thing I'd want to retcon right now is merging both Nidoran genders into a single species. I still can't believe Game Freak haven't done this yet.
    I have claimed the Spell Tag and Kasib Berry, along with Adaptability and Shadow Ball. I have also claimed Gastly.

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    Default Re: Retconning Pokémon

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta View Post
    I would definitely sign up for buffing Pokemon base stats by 10 or 20 on a case by case basis and getting rid of Incense.
    -Making Azurill Water type and NOT Normal like it currently is (I still feel this was a mistake).
    I thought it was supposed to be based on terrestrial mammals that need to be taught to swim - like baby otters.
    And yet, can learn Surf. And carry a human at leas 25 times heavier.
    ________________________

    About the Nidoran thing, and National Dex in general, I don't think GF will do any change about it.


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    I support erasing the need of incienses.

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    Default Re: Retconning Pokémon

    I didn't touch on messing with the breeding system because as screwy as it is, it makes things interesting in terms of being a game. The only way I can think of for fixing the Skitty and Wailord problem is that the breeding groups need to be reworked, maybe even redefine which pokes are in what breeding group.

    If I must discuss evolution problems, I must emphasize that I realize that the different evo methods exist also because this is a game, and it makes it interesting. That being said, I would definitely like Gardevoir to be a female-only evo and Gallade to be the same evo, just for males. The same for Glalie and Froslass. Here is the controversial part, though: I don't think the trade evos make sense, not even in-universe. I think another way needs to be found to achieve these forms unless I am to believe that these forms were achieved by human intervention. (the spinoffs would disagree, all trade evos can be found wild) As for the trade evos that involve items, some of them are natural enough to be plausible on their own. Others are induced by man-made means. I think another way to achieve these forms should be apparent. The only exception would be Porygon, which was man-made anyway, so it's evo method makes sense. Also, for all evos that involve things grouping together to make a single being, you actually have to have that number of that pokemon and they somehow merge into a single pokemon. (I'm not sure if I ever really attempted Mantyke's evo method, does the Remoraid end up disappearing, or does it stay in the party?) Some people also want Eevee's evo methods to be retconned so that the already present stones induce the evos. (Sun for Espeon, Moon for Umbreon, and Leaf for Leafeon) The problem here is that there remains no way to induce Glaceon. I offered the alternative in making the same method that evos Leafeon and Glaceon now apply to all of it's evos. This would match Eevee's description of evolving according to it's environment. What about the other pokes that evo by stones? I suppose they could still apply. I wasn't exactly able to decide if the environmental condition should apply to them, but I couldn't exactly discount that it would be plausible. As a naturally-occurring substance, I hold nothing against the evo stones. Apparently, Feebas can still evolve using it's old method, it just has to already have the Beauty from a previous gen. That doesn't sound like a good idea game-wise, though, since why would you choose to use one evo method over another? The only reason then I could find of using an evo stone is that you can't access the area/environment where the evo is possible.
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