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  1. #61
    Surrender now or carry on Bikini Miltank's Avatar Bulbanews Editor-in-Chief
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    Default Re: Pokemon Ethics- Hacking

    Yes, it is. And under the DMCA, altering copyrighted code is illegal. And you alter the save file every time you save. I guess we're all criminals, then.

    The save file isn't copyrighted. It can't be, because it isn't static code.

    Incidentally, I'd have thought Shoddy would be on much shakier ground legally, since it reproduces a whole load of copyrighted artwork... That's a separate issue, though.

  2. #62
    'Myles' from Bulbapedia Myles Grey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokemon Ethics- Hacking

    The whole cart is under protection of the EULA/DMCA. If you use the game, you agree to not tampor with it.

    Variable content can be copyrighted, because you can make anything your program produce automatically be under the same copyright of the program. Thus the save file can be copyrighted.

    And no, it wouldn't be illegal to save the game. Copyrights aren't black and white, 'you can't copy this'. They have specific rules on exactly how you can copy it and for what purposes.

  3. #63
    Surrender now or carry on Bikini Miltank's Avatar Bulbanews Editor-in-Chief
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    Default Re: Pokemon Ethics- Hacking

    If that's the case, then I stand corrected. One could still argue that this doesn't count as tampering because the AR is just accessing data which you are then saving. However, I'm constructing arguments based on laws I don't fully understand, as they refer to a device I've never used, and so it's probably best if I don't get too bogged down in this.

    If the use of AR on a Nintendo game is automatically illegal, though, I'd be curious to know what legal purpose an AR (designed for use with Nintendo consoles) could actually have...

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    Default Re: Pokemon Ethics- Hacking

    I don't know if the way the cheating devices work has changed, but at least from what I've heard, at least GameShark on Gen I/II games alters the device's (GB, GBC, GBA, or your emulator) RAM (random access memory), not the save file. That's because you can change things not saved in the save file such as current opponent's moves or next Pokémon encountered.

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  5. #65
    Dragon & Fire Breeder Crimson-Ninetales's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokemon Ethics- Hacking

    I've got a VERY big bone of contention in this subject.

    I own a small number of Shiny pokemon, including 2 Arceus, which I'd originally obtained after purchasing a hacked Diamond game from eBay with the purpose being to get an Arceus.

    I've never hacked a pokemon game in my life & have only kept a very small number of the shinies from that game before deleting the file & starting fresh. Also, these guys I have I raised them all from a very low level, so they feel as much like my own pokemon as those I've bred/caught etc.

    Also, my 10 year old nephew gave me a shiny tyranitar & a shiny kingdra he'd obtained from a completely unrelated hacked game because he didn't want them. Does that make him a cheat?

    I've bred from my own shinies a few times - indeed, one of my normal charizards' father was a shiny black charizard. I've never used any of these guys in battle against trainers online, I only keep them because either they're wicked(black rayquaza) or have some brilliant moves to pass on in breeding (black charizard).

    I just wish people wouldn't be so quick to shoot someone in the foot, figuratively speaking, because of something as simple as having hacked Shinies.

    BTW I've not used any of my Arceus in battle either.





  6. #66
    Unregistered Non-User Vasili's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokemon Ethics- Hacking

    nothing wrong with hacking as long as it doesnt directly affect a pokemons stats,

    and for glitching, definetely nothing wrong there, i consider it exploiting nintendos weakness

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  7. #67
    Fighting Steel trainer Jamesredsilver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokemon Ethics- Hacking

    Short version of my story: I entered Mew contests, didn't win any of them, and was then given the opportunity for a genuine Mew with my own Trainer ID and name on it as opposed to "00000" and "NINTEND".

    If I couldn't hack Pokèmon, I wouldn't play it. It's that simple. I never hack anything illegal, and I'm saved the anxiety of constantly holding off on one-time tutors and TMs in case I decide to use it on a different Pokèmon later. Besides, I don't even battle with what's "best", I battle with my favorites-I hack yet don't usually win anyway. I also don't have to constantly have an up-to date Pokèmon game with which to attend all of Nintendo's little gather-gimmicks.

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    Default Re: Pokemon Ethics- Hacking

    of course, i would also like to touch upon the "stop having fun guys" argument, as i know nothing of the legal system and am not going to try to bullshit my way through it.

    Hacking with the Action Reply makes things easier. Battle Tower is easily the most fun part of that game. But if i start at the start, and i just want to battle in battle tower, why is it wrong for me to hack my way there?

    also, battling with hacked pokemon. let me first get this out of the way I am not talking about someone lying and battling with hacked pokemon. I am referring to Johnny fucktard Honest
    Johnny informs his friend Paul that his pokemon are hacked, and Paul agrees to battle. because Johnny tells him he just hacked to get them shiny/actually catch them. After the battle, Paul attacks Johnny for using hacked pokemon in their battle and saying that he is just a noob who shouldn't be playing because his pokemon are hacked, and precedes to flame him for it, saying he won due to cheating.

    who is in the wrong here? is paul right? is it just because he cheated?
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  9. #69
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    Default Re: Pokemon Ethics- Hacking

    I don't have a problem with people who hack, as long as they don't battle me or trade with me using hacked Pokes. If that makes the games more fun for them, that's fine. I had people (usually n00bs) call me a "cheater" because I trade the 2 other starters to one version from its twin so I can play the game through with all three starters. I find having all three starters makes the game more fun for me. Maybe not everyone can afford two consoles and both versions, so in that respect I'm at an advantage. I think it's the same with hackers. Of course, I understand that it's illegal, but what a person does in the privacy of their own home/game, as long as it doesn't affect anyone else, is ultimately their business.

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  10. #70
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    Default Re: Pokemon Ethics- Hacking

    If it wasn't so hard to obtain certain pokemon - Mew, Celebi, Ho-Oh, Lugia, Deoxys - then I'd never have looked at getting a hacked Diamond game in the first place. It's fair enough that Nintendo release pokemon like that in Japan, but they very rarely release them here, in the UK.

    Also, I don't think it is cheating when you use all starters from different versions of the game(Torterra in Pearl, Infernape in Diamond) to battle on the same team. That's just the sign of a bad loser.

    I had the "pleasure" of battling with a group of guys last year who used hacked/legendary pokemon(I know at least 1 was hacked because it was a Darkrai, well before Shadows Of Almia was released). These pokemon were level 100, well above my highest at the time, so I got my butt kicked.

    However, I took away from that happy knowledge that my Ninetales, Bunton, at level 81 took down a level 100 Spiritomb with very little damage. :D





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    Default Re: Pokemon Ethics- Hacking

    Quote Originally Posted by DCM View Post
    of course, i would also like to touch upon the "stop having fun guys" argument, as i know nothing of the legal system and am not going to try to bullshit my way through it.

    Hacking with the Action Reply makes things easier. Battle Tower is easily the most fun part of that game. But if i start at the start, and i just want to battle in battle tower, why is it wrong for me to hack my way there?

    also, battling with hacked pokemon. let me first get this out of the way I am not talking about someone lying and battling with hacked pokemon. I am referring to Johnny fucktard Honest
    Johnny informs his friend Paul that his pokemon are hacked, and Paul agrees to battle. because Johnny tells him he just hacked to get them shiny/actually catch them. After the battle, Paul attacks Johnny for using hacked pokemon in their battle and saying that he is just a noob who shouldn't be playing because his pokemon are hacked, and precedes to flame him for it, saying he won due to cheating.

    who is in the wrong here? is paul right? is it just because he cheated?
    I completely agree with you. AR in those cases are certainly fine if it is for the individuals benifit and she/he dosn't take advantage over other people using it.

    I also agree with the other post about trading starters to one single game. Before GTS came out an extremely small group of people would ever give up thier starter and even now anyone giving starters away either bred it or is gonna restart thier game anyways. It's a loophole to use 2 cartrages and systems for starters but theres really nothing Nintendo can complain about.

    (Funny fact: TheMissingno. sent me a whiney hate mail with some lame whine about how I "didn't contribute" in my last post which anyone (who isn't an idiot) could clearly see especially since i bolded the important opinions I added)
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    Default Re: Pokemon Ethics- Hacking

    Quote Originally Posted by D558 View Post
    I completely agree with you. AR in those cases are certainly fine if it is for the individuals benifit and she/he dosn't take advantage over other people using it.

    I also agree with the other post about trading starters to one single game. Before GTS came out an extremely small group of people would ever give up thier starter and even now anyone giving starters away either bred it or is gonna restart thier game anyways. It's a loophole to use 2 cartrages and systems for starters but theres really nothing Nintendo can complain about.

    (Funny fact: TheMissingno. sent me a whiney hate mail with some lame whine about how I "didn't contribute" in my last post which anyone (who isn't an idiot) could clearly see especially since i bolded the important opinions I added)
    Yeah, I concur. I think hacking for pokemon in moderation is fine also, but only in the case of Johnny can't afford the HG game, so he gets his buds to clone them with AR and then trades them over. That's a case were hacking and trading is appropriate.
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    Default Re: Pokemon Ethics- Hacking

    Something I am curious about and I have a good example.

    Today I got the adapter so I could save my DS games to the computer in the mail.
    For fun I dragged the save file from Soul Silver into pokesav to check out my pokemon.

    I look at my starter and it has a 0 in speed of an IV
    A ZERO
    As well as having single diget stats in two others. ;_;
    A ZERO IN SPEED
    At this point I am pissed. I am attached to keni my pixel quilava by 3 gyms and I do not want a new one IT IS MY STARTER IT LOVES ME IT SMILES AT ME.
    So I stick a 2 in front of that 0, now it is a 20.

    I have in platinum a baby cyndiquil on level one with much better stats which I could have easily traded in. Because you cannot pokesav HG/SS keni!clone had to be sav'd into diamond then into silver and the whole process of me figuring out that pokesav does not work with that version and what I had to make it work too me hours of research and fiddling with my computer, which happens to be an evil Mac which means I had to fiddle with multiple OS's just to open files.

    So lets recap, making my quilava have average stats took 3 hours, multiple game cards, multiple operating systems, and much googling. Putting a legit average quilava in there would have taken oh about 5 minutes and no effort at all since I have my boxes all type sorted.

    What is your opinion on my cheating? LOL

    (If it isn't obvious, this pokemon is never going to be used competitively. Especially since I have a GOOD legit typlosion with decent stats, move tutored and IV trained in platinum, and that one is still not good enough to be used in even casual battle..)

  14. #74
    I Wobb You Sublime's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pokemon Ethics- Hacking

    Quote Originally Posted by katwalk View Post
    Something I am curious about and I have a good example.

    Today I got the adapter so I could save my DS games to the computer in the mail.
    For fun I dragged the save file from Soul Silver into pokesav to check out my pokemon.

    I look at my starter and it has a 0 in speed of an IV
    A ZERO
    As well as having single diget stats in two others. ;_;
    A ZERO IN SPEED
    At this point I am pissed. I am attached to keni my pixel quilava by 3 gyms and I do not want a new one IT IS MY STARTER IT LOVES ME IT SMILES AT ME.
    So I stick a 2 in front of that 0, now it is a 20.

    I have in platinum a baby cyndiquil on level one with much better stats which I could have easily traded in. Because you cannot pokesav HG/SS keni!clone had to be sav'd into diamond then into silver and the whole process of me figuring out that pokesav does not work with that version and what I had to make it work too me hours of research and fiddling with my computer, which happens to be an evil Mac which means I had to fiddle with multiple OS's just to open files.

    So lets recap, making my quilava have average stats took 3 hours, multiple game cards, multiple operating systems, and much googling. Putting a legit average quilava in there would have taken oh about 5 minutes and no effort at all since I have my boxes all type sorted.

    What is your opinion on my cheating? LOL

    (If it isn't obvious, this pokemon is never going to be used competitively. Especially since I have a GOOD legit typlosion with decent stats, move tutored and IV trained in platinum, and that one is still not good enough to be used in even casual battle..)
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    Default Re: Pokemon Ethics- Hacking

    Quote Originally Posted by katwalk View Post
    Something I am curious about and I have a good example.

    Today I got the adapter so I could save my DS games to the computer in the mail.
    For fun I dragged the save file from Soul Silver into pokesav to check out my pokemon.

    I look at my starter and it has a 0 in speed of an IV
    A ZERO
    As well as having single diget stats in two others. ;_;
    A ZERO IN SPEED
    At this point I am pissed. I am attached to keni my pixel quilava by 3 gyms and I do not want a new one IT IS MY STARTER IT LOVES ME IT SMILES AT ME.
    So I stick a 2 in front of that 0, now it is a 20.

    I have in platinum a baby cyndiquil on level one with much better stats which I could have easily traded in. Because you cannot pokesav HG/SS keni!clone had to be sav'd into diamond then into silver and the whole process of me figuring out that pokesav does not work with that version and what I had to make it work too me hours of research and fiddling with my computer, which happens to be an evil Mac which means I had to fiddle with multiple OS's just to open files.

    So lets recap, making my quilava have average stats took 3 hours, multiple game cards, multiple operating systems, and much googling. Putting a legit average quilava in there would have taken oh about 5 minutes and no effort at all since I have my boxes all type sorted.

    What is your opinion on my cheating? LOL

    (If it isn't obvious, this pokemon is never going to be used competitively. Especially since I have a GOOD legit typlosion with decent stats, move tutored and IV trained in platinum, and that one is still not good enough to be used in even casual battle..)
    Aha, that reminds me of when I bred a blissey so it had all 0s for IVs.
    Pokesav is the most blatant form of cheating. Just because you suck at it doesn't mean that's it's not absolultely wrong.
    “And as to you life, I reckon you are the leavings of many deaths, No doubt I have died myself ten thousand times before.”

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