Thread: Pokemon Ethics- Hacking

"Ok hacking":
Obtaining event Pokemons/items/Pokewalker Courses exclusive to overseas
IV/EV/SID checking
Wonderguard Spiritombs that are not used in competitive play
Getting out of dangerous locations such as Mystery Zone

To me, it seems that Nintendo's losing a fair bit of money by limiting distribution of event exclusives to certain areas. Incidentally, even in Japan people find it difficult to attend events because they're only held in a few perfectures(states). As an example, the newest and final Pokewalker course, Amity Meadow, was only distributed to people who got on certain Japanese trains, making it impossible for people in rural areas to obtain, let alone players overseas.

Iffy hacking:
Sending hacked Pokemons over GTS to "unreasonable traders"
x99 items
slight LEGAL tweaks in Pokemon stats (e.g. nature, ability...)
Making a copy of an encountered shiny to be used for display

These 4 are all things I've done to varying degree, and I will defend. The GTS has long been polluted with people asking for legendaries in return for their Bidoof. Isn't it better to rid the network of these unreasonable trades which would otherwise simply result in the trade being deleted? As for the items thing, I haven't actually used it exactly, but I did use a 9999BP cheat on my Diamond, the reason being that getting BP's in that game is too inefficient. Now that I have Heartgold, with four other Battle facilities and a Trainer House, I feel that I don't need to resort to AR for this anymore. The last two refer to examples like "this Male Ralts has 5 max IV's (0 in SpA) but has a Careful Nature instead of Adamant", and "a shiny Whismur Roared me on the same day that a Shiny Dusclops killed itself with Curse". I've had both happen to me, and I had already spent hours trying to breed that Ralts, too.

Not-Ok hacking:
Wonderguard Spiritombs that are used in competitive play
Sending hacked Pokemons over GTS indiscriminately
Manufacturing perfect pokemon
Pokesav

I'm pretty sure I don't need to explain these...

By the way, Nintendo's already tried to sue companies that make cheating devices, but have failed on multiple occasions. Thus, under the law, cheating devices are perfectly OK.

Originally Posted by mikarugelord

Not-Ok hacking:
Wonderguard Spiritombs that are used in competitive play
Sending hacked Pokemons over GTS indiscriminately
Manufacturing perfect pokemon
Pokesav

I'm pretty sure I don't need to explain these...

You'll have to explain that last one. I use it all the time, although not in competitive battling.

Originally Posted by mikarugelord

The GTS has long been polluted with people asking for legendaries in return for their Bidoof. Isn't it better to rid the network of these unreasonable trades which would otherwise simply result in the trade being deleted?

The problem whit giving them the Pokemon is that you give them what they what they want, and if they don't like it, they can just put it back on the GTS.

Originally Posted by Zekurom

You'll have to explain that last one. I use it all the time, although not in competitive battling.

Should have been clearer: Pokesav for competitive battling is what I can't stand. If that isn't the case, then it's perfectly OK. In fact, I'd experiment with it myself if I had the necessary equipment.

Originally Posted by Battaman

The problem whit giving them the Pokemon is that you give them what they what they want, and if they don't like it, they can just put it back on the GTS.

In my case, I just give them bad nicknames so that even they know nobody would want it even if they put it back up.
(Of course, there was that one time this stupid kid kept putting up the hacked Celebi I sent him...I had to send him a copy of that Celebi 3 times until he gave up. Sure taught him a lesson though.)

I've never used the GTS, but I've heard people's triumphant stories about how they either stole or ripped off some innocent elementary school kid's Pokemon. That's pretty messed up.

But if someone wants to get a shiny Rayquaza or an event Pokemon with a hack, then what's the problem? It's just a video game, darn it. And I've never hacked because of the risk of save file corruption, but I'd justify it in this situation.

みんなさん、こんにちは。
Hello everyone.

Here is my hacking story:
I just recently bought a NDS and Platinum and Soul Silver versions, after a 10 year break from Pokemon (back in the GBC days). So I played through Platinum, trained up, and beat the Elite Four. Then, while looking at the official Pokemon.com website, I notice the WiFi event to get the Soul Dew. I informed my nephew on it, and told him how to get it, because he already had the National Dex unlocked. I, however, hadn't even started my Soul Silver game yet, I was waiting to complete the Platinum National Dex.

So began the race to unlock the Silver Nation Dex before Aug 27th. At one point, I decided it might be a good idea to have a few extra Master Balls on hand, so I could save time catching any Legendary Pokemon the game required you to fight before you reach the Elite Four. The clock was ticking, so I used my nephews AR device to add Master Balls, and Rare Candies, since I knew I wouldn't get that chance again for a long time.

Then the younger nephew pipes up "I wanna hack my game too".

At this point, I am thinking, "Oh jeeze, this can't end well". At first, I was thinking, no way, this kid will just hack the crap out of everything. He actually started to cry on us, he was really upset that we were hacking our games, and he couldn't also. I thought, Master Balls are ok, give him those. I didn't think it was a good idea to give him Rare Candies.

You never know Why people want the hack, What they will hack, and How Far they will go with it. Everyone has their "line in the sand", the point they won't go past. I draw that line at "Master Balls, and Rare Candies" since you can get MBs and RCs in the game anyway (or the same effect anyway). All you get in return is some "Time", and you are not saving that much "Time" with these 2 particular hacks anywhere except when you are catching Legendary Pokemon, or leveling Pokemon for the Pokedex entries. I also don't see any problem with using "Event Codes" to unlock ingame stuff that you may have missed for whatever reason, as long as the purpose is purely personal (Example: Completeing Pokedex), and not "Trade Fodder".

I have no idea where my young nephew's "line in the sand" is, but I doubt it's anywhere reasonable. The older nephew seems to think it's reasonable to "Hack in every Pokemon not found in his version". Every time I tell him, I need a Stunky from his pearl version, he says "I can hack that", and I say, "No I want a real one", and he just doesn't get it.

I have seen many codes through Google that were appealing, especially Event codes, but I am leery of using a code that might squirrel up my save state in any way, because I have hours of legitimate effort invested in actually catching real Pokemon. The only shiny Pokemon I own is the Red Gyarados.~笑~

When people start sharing these codes online, there is no telling what data is being manipulated, or why.
You can't trust that some jackass kid won't make up a nonsense code, for the express purpose of screwing up peoples games for a laugh. (Which would create a misguided notion that "Bulbagarden is somehow responsible" and should "do something"~笑~)
You can never trust that the general population will have any self control to hold themselves back, and adhere to an ethical "line in the sand".


I think this is the core reason, and the answer to your question:
Hacking isn't the issue as much as where your "line in the sand" is.
Inviting unfettered discussion of Pokemon Game hacking here would be a huge mistake, drawing a crowd of player type that, I think, would pollute the community as a whole, and have detrimental ramifications (ultimately resulting in the ruin of this forum).

どうもありがとう。
野犬

I hack my games a ridiculous amount, but I don't ever play against other people (or if I do, I tell them I've hacked) so I see it as a non-issue.

Originally Posted by Stray Mongrel (野犬)

みんなさん、こんにちは。
Hello everyone.

Here is my hacking story:
I just recently bought a NDS and Platinum and Soul Silver versions, after a 10 year break from Pokemon (back in the GBC days). So I played through Platinum, trained up, and beat the Elite Four. Then, while looking at the official Pokemon.com website, I notice the WiFi event to get the Soul Dew. I informed my nephew on it, and told him how to get it, because he already had the National Dex unlocked. I, however, hadn't even started my Soul Silver game yet, I was waiting to complete the Platinum National Dex.

So began the race to unlock the Silver Nation Dex before Aug 27th. At one point, I decided it might be a good idea to have a few extra Master Balls on hand, so I could save time catching any Legendary Pokemon the game required you to fight before you reach the Elite Four. The clock was ticking, so I used my nephews AR device to add Master Balls, and Rare Candies, since I knew I wouldn't get that chance again for a long time.

Then the younger nephew pipes up "I wanna hack my game too".

At this point, I am thinking, "Oh jeeze, this can't end well". At first, I was thinking, no way, this kid will just hack the crap out of everything. He actually started to cry on us, he was really upset that we were hacking our games, and he couldn't also. I thought, Master Balls are ok, give him those. I didn't think it was a good idea to give him Rare Candies.

You never know Why people want the hack, What they will hack, and How Far they will go with it. Everyone has their "line in the sand", the point they won't go past. I draw that line at "Master Balls, and Rare Candies" since you can get MBs and RCs in the game anyway (or the same effect anyway). All you get in return is some "Time", and you are not saving that much "Time" with these 2 particular hacks anywhere except when you are catching Legendary Pokemon, or leveling Pokemon for the Pokedex entries. I also don't see any problem with using "Event Codes" to unlock ingame stuff that you may have missed for whatever reason, as long as the purpose is purely personal (Example: Completeing Pokedex), and not "Trade Fodder".

I have no idea where my young nephew's "line in the sand" is, but I doubt it's anywhere reasonable. The older nephew seems to think it's reasonable to "Hack in every Pokemon not found in his version". Every time I tell him, I need a Stunky from his pearl version, he says "I can hack that", and I say, "No I want a real one", and he just doesn't get it.

I have seen many codes through Google that were appealing, especially Event codes, but I am leery of using a code that might squirrel up my save state in any way, because I have hours of legitimate effort invested in actually catching real Pokemon. The only shiny Pokemon I own is the Red Gyarados.~笑~

When people start sharing these codes online, there is no telling what data is being manipulated, or why.
You can't trust that some jackass kid won't make up a nonsense code, for the express purpose of screwing up peoples games for a laugh. (Which would create a misguided notion that "Bulbagarden is somehow responsible" and should "do something"~笑~)
You can never trust that the general population will have any self control to hold themselves back, and adhere to an ethical "line in the sand".


I think this is the core reason, and the answer to your question:
Hacking isn't the issue as much as where your "line in the sand" is.
Inviting unfettered discussion of Pokemon Game hacking here would be a huge mistake, drawing a crowd of player type that, I think, would pollute the community as a whole, and have detrimental ramifications (ultimately resulting in the ruin of this forum).

どうもありがとう。
野犬

^ Wow, that was great. Exactly what I needed. I personally am against hacking because of a few experiences with people who have no ethical line in the sand at all.

hi. what i'm about to say is probably completely and totally nonsensical and you're free to ignore it. it's just my $0.02 and likely completely worthless. i just like to give my input on matters.

i have no issue with hacks or with people who hack, as long as they don't use these hacks in battle against other people (NO who else would they play against??). or at least, if you are going to hack and play someone, at least do so within reason. i don't want to fight wonder guard spiritomb because i don't feel like carrying foresight machamp wherever i go. i have actually been in a battle with someone who used pokesav and hacked pokes with 252 EVs in each stat. i lost, but narrowly. i thought it was pretty clear that if he hadn't hacked his mons, i would have won by a large margin. i mean stuff like wondertomb, 252 EVs in each stat, etc... i have no respect for people who do that and then say "no hacks" as a rule in battle. as far as using those, but not battling other people with them... well, i have no issue with that. it's your game so do as you wish with it.

if people hack to save time (510 EVs maximum, 31 IVs max, proper nature, proper ability), i'm perfectly fine with that. if you're trading, at least make it clear that you are trading hacked pokemon/items. i don't have a problem with hacked items, but hacked pokemon are a different thing entirely. i feel weird for saying that, but that's just the way i am. if you clone your pokes, i have no issue with that, but again, i'd like it if people at least stated that their pokemon are cloned.

i used to hack and clone myself during advance. well, shiny pokemon in particular. i caught a bunch of them in fire red version. being the greedy twelve-year-old i was, i decided to catch every shiny i saw. of course, i never realized that these shinies weren't special at all because they were ordinary pokemon, just well.. hacked shiny. i'd hack master balls in sapphire, leaf green, and emerald, warp codes to events... stuff like that. i had no real issue with it. i didn't try to trade these hacks to anyone, and it never really mattered if i battled anyone with these, because i never hacked stats, and thus, they never any unfair advantage besides maybe the fact that i hacked a bunch of tms. the movesets i'd composed were total garbage anyways. well, anyways, i entered a UK deoxys code into my US fire red. as you can guess, that didn't end well... the stuff in my pc turned into bad eggs. everything. this wouldn't be so bad if well... i didn't save before encountering deoxys. this was more my fault than anything but i was never the type to blame myself (i am now, but that's irrelevant to this). obviously, if i hadn't entered the hack, my game wouldn't have been screwed. so who was at fault? my greed? pfft, NO, IT MUST HAVE BEEN THE HACKS!

i then became totally against hacks. in fact, my new file was named "AR Hate," lol. i stopped playing for maybe a month. then i just said "lol forget it" and just hacked five random pokemon, grabbed unlimited rare candies, and then raised the pokemon all the way to level 70. so imagine stomping around in the freaking viridian forest with a level 70 arcanine. yeeeeeeeeeeeeeah, not fun. the hacks just made everything too easy. i know i know the games aren't hard in the first place but this was entirely too easy. so i gave up on them, and eventually caught a shiny Pidgey! :D Then a shiny Wingull, followed by a shiny Poochyena. Was awesome. I felt so proud of myself for not hacking and almost felt superior to hackers as people.

then fourth gen came around and i didn't care at all about hacking or hackers and just wanted to trade my pokemon to other people. i did so, and about a year ago, i decided to regress, and used a few action replay codes on my pearl. nothing big, though, just some tms. i obviously didn't trade them to anyone since i knew how unfair that would be. i still don't see any issue with it. i'm fifteen now, and my perspective hasn't really changed much on this since it did three years ago.

i've never heard of the rng before. ok, i've well, i have heard about it, but i don't really have an in-depth understanding of it. could anyone please enlighten me? but it doesn't seem that bad to me...

anyways, i guess what i'm trying to say is hacking isn't really that bad if you know what you're doing and you keep it in well.. control. it's your game and you have a right to do whatever you feel like with it, be it hack or play fairly or sacrifice it to the flying spaghetti monster while wearing a french maid suit (i really, really hope no one does this...). but as soon as you start doing stupid stuff like trading your hacked stuff to others for their hard-earned stuff (without consent, obviously!), or even battling in order to gain an unfair win by means of modifying EVs/stats/abilities in ways they shouldn't be changed, that's when it becomes a problem, in my opinion. just make the game fun for yourself! if hacking makes you happy, then do it, just as long as you don't take a huge, steaming dump on the potential happiness of others by trading them hacked pokemon without their consent or beating the crap out of them with hacked pokemon when they might have had a legitimate shot at winning otherwise.

eta: Also, PokeSav - in my opinion - is fine. I mean, well, it is as long as you don't do anything outside of reason (252 EVs in every stat, moveset alterations, ability alterations). The stuff I mentioned in parentheses is perfectly fine outside of Wi-Fi battles, but unless given consent to use them in these battles, is just pathetic to use. -.- I didn't mention 31 IVs as that's perfectly possible -- heck, I've done five 31s before with a Chansey, so I really don't see how it would be a problem with six...

again. just my opinion. you can agree or disagree with it, i'm fine with that either way. just... don't hurt me? ^^; please?

Originally Posted by Stray Mongrel (野犬)

I have seen many codes through Google that were appealing, especially Event codes, but I am leery of using a code that might squirrel up my save state in any way, because I have hours of legitimate effort invested in actually catching real Pokemon. The only shiny Pokemon I own is the Red Gyarados.~笑~

after you hacked to get rare candies & masterballs i find this a bit hypocritical

Originally Posted by Stray Mongrel (野犬)

When people start sharing these codes online, there is no telling what data is being manipulated, or why.
You can't trust that some jackass kid won't make up a nonsense code, for the express purpose of screwing up peoples games for a laugh. (Which would create a misguided notion that "Bulbagarden is somehow responsible" and should "do something"~笑~)
You can never trust that the general population will have any self control to hold themselves back, and adhere to an ethical "line in the sand".

this is an excellent point - my main grievances with hacking are this: morons & bastards

the former are the people probably more common - some cretins can't understand basics such as EV training yet they're let loose on data altering devices? whoa there! the latter are what they are & although they are probably quite rare i suspect they'll still be out there (as in every walk of life)

screw the proverbial line on the sand - just stay off the beach

Originally Posted by Stray Mongrel (野犬)

I am leery of using a code that might squirrel up my save state in any way, because I have hours of legitimate effort invested in actually catching real Pokemon.

Hence why I never hack retail carts. ~笑~

どうもありがとう。
野犬

Are you sure that "野犬" necessarily means "stray mongrel"? Couldn't it also just mean "stray dog" in general?

Originally Posted by Zekurom

Are you sure that "野犬" necessarily means "stray mongrel"? Couldn't it also just mean "stray dog" in general?

Specifically, it means "Field Dog", which is an approximation. Translation from Japanese to English is not absolute. It's a process of transliteration, which uses flexibility to bridge the cultural gap.

Either way, it suits me just fine.笑

If this username stuff actually matters, there's a thread for it. But this isn't it.

Originally Posted by Jungleboook

I know I'm probably in a minority here, but I think cloning and RNG abuse are as wrong and illegitimate as something made with Pokesav. Yes, cloning is in the game without the use of a cheating device, but that does not make it right. Cloning rare event legends and shinies misses the point of their existence. They were made to be rare, but when everyone has the ability to spread them faster than insert-contagious-disease-here, they have about as much of a point as a blunt pencil. I get kind of sad that if it weren't for cloning I'd have some pretty big bragging rights, but because nobody notices that all of my shinies were either random or chained and all of my events are legit, I look about as lucky as any random hacker.

I'm also completely agreeing with cloning and RNGing cutting the work load by a lot. I breed and train my Pokémon. It takes a long time, but I feel like I've accomplished something. I'll never get that from cheating. I never even used the Mew glitch. :/

you make it sound like using RNG abuse is easy & that just because people do it they don't have "legit" shiny pokemon & events...

i have about 12 random encounter shinies & they mean as much to me as yours do to you - i'm sure if you were capable of RNGing you would do it too

Originally Posted by siburke939

you make it sound like using RNG abuse is easy & that just because people do it they don't have "legit" shiny pokemon & events...

How is it not easy? The only thing I've seen that is difficult is RNG abusing Pokewalker pokes.