Pokémon Remake Discussion (Read First Post!) - Page 90

View Poll Results: When would you like R/S/E Remakes

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  • Yes, this generation

    195 47.56%
  • No, I'd prefer them in Gen 6

    152 37.07%
  • No, wait till Gen 7

    16 3.90%
  • No, i dont want r/s/e remakes

    47 11.46%
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Thread: Pokémon Remake Discussion (Read First Post!)

  1. #1336
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    Default Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Purim View Post
    Indulge me. How, prior to HeartGold/SoulSilver, did the Heart/Soul motif fit in Johto? To me, it seems more like they made it fit, rather than built on something that was already there.
    Ho-Oh needs someone with a pure heart, Lugia a calm soul?

    I dunno.

  2. #1337
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    Default Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by PkmnGreen View Post
    Ho-Oh needs someone with a pure heart, Lugia a calm soul?

    I dunno.
    I remember hearing that somewhere in those games, I'm sure.

  3. #1338
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    Default Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwebble View Post
    I remember hearing that somewhere in those games, I'm sure.
    I remember hearing about Ho-Oh only appearing before trainers with a pure heart, but the only thing I remember about Lugia is that it eats bad children that are sent to the Whirl Islands, as noted by a mother in one of the cities close to the Islands.

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    Default Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Purim View Post
    I remember hearing about Ho-Oh only appearing before trainers with a pure heart, but the only thing I remember about Lugia is that it eats bad children that are sent to the Whirl Islands, as noted by a mother in one of the cities close to the Islands.
    That was it. I'm trying to think of a way to link one of Lugia's Pokédex entries to the word "soul", but I'm too tired.
    "It has an incredible ability to calm raging storms. It is said that Lugia appears when storms start."
    "Soul: A person's moral or emotional nature or sense of identity."
    I have no freaking idea.

    ...I've never actually read Lugia's Bulbapedia page before - did anybody else know the thing about the final episode of ER?

  5. #1340
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    Default Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Purim View Post
    Indulge me. How, prior to HeartGold/SoulSilver, did the Heart/Soul motif fit in Johto? To me, it seems more like they made it fit, rather than built on something that was already there.
    Heart... Ho-oh... Gold... "Heart of Gold" duh lol Ho-oh is also a fire type, an element that at times represents the heart. As for Soul, it is often paired with the Heart theme, for example "A person puts their heart and soul into something."

    For Lugia, the idea of it resting in the deep ocean may reference the deep depths of a person's Soul that is often compared to the ocean.

    As for Johto, notice how its a region steeped in ancient tradition and folklore. It kinda represents the "spirituality" thats very much lacking in its opposite the Kanto region.

    So yeah, Heart/Soul were not out of left field at all.

  6. #1341
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    Default Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by El_ View Post
    Heart... Ho-oh... Gold... "Heart of Gold" duh lol Ho-oh is also a fire type, an element that at times represents the heart. As for Soul, it is often paired with the Heart theme, for example "A person puts their heart and soul into something."

    For Lugia, the idea of it resting in the deep ocean may reference the deep depths of a person's Soul that is often compared to the ocean.

    As for Johto, notice how its a region steeped in ancient tradition and folklore. It kinda represents the "spirituality" thats very much lacking in its opposite the Kanto region.

    So yeah, Heart/Soul were not out of left field at all.
    Sorry, but I don't buy it. Those are based on your own interpretations more than any solid ingame evidence, which is what I thought you were getting it. I could argue that because rubies are red and red is the color of Passion, PassionRuby fits. Sapphires are more the cooler (but still good) emotions, like loyalty, trust, and understanding. Which, itself, tends toward honesty.
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  7. #1342
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    Default Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Purim View Post
    I remember hearing about Ho-Oh only appearing before trainers with a pure heart, but the only thing I remember about Lugia is that it eats bad children that are sent to the Whirl Islands, as noted by a mother in one of the cities close to the Islands.
    Umm...that was a superstitious story made up to scare children in order to make them behave. There was no truth to that, otherwise we also wouldn't have parents threatening to send them to those islands. The only other city that believed in human-eating Legendaries were deathly afraid and never used it as a threat, going so far as to never going out at night despite claiming they no longer believe those stories. I doubt anyone who truly believed that there was a giant sea monster ready to eat them would even joke about sending their children away. But that's a bit off tangent, it was only just a story.

    Lugia is more known for saving ships from torrential storms. Though considering a single flap of its wings is also attributed to creating long-lasting ones, one begins to wonder how benevolent that act really is.

    Let's just admit it, the HgSs plot was more or less geared toward Ho-Oh. They could have gone with a divergent plot that explored Lugia's, but no.

    I'm on the camp that they just made up names and changed the plot to make it fit (even though Ho-Oh's plot would have fit it even as early Crystal as evident by its dex entry). I hear this "Heart of Gold" and "Soul of Silver" phrasing as justification. The former I've heard before, the latter, I've only heard in Pokemon forums as justification for Soul Silver. In fact, while googling "Heart of Gold" yields a great deal of results, googling "Soul of Silver" yields only Pokemon games on the first page.

    Really, it seems like they went with "Heart of Gold" because that actually fits with Ho-Oh's theme. Soul Silver on the other hand? Seems like they shoved Silver into the periphery and gave it a prefix because of "Heart and Soul" seeming like they go together.
    Last edited by The Outrage; 18th September 2011 at 07:04 PM.

  8. #1343
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    Default Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by The Outrage View Post
    Umm...that was a superstitious story made up to scare children in order to make them behave. There was no truth to that, otherwise we also wouldn't have parents threatening to send them to those islands.

    Lugia is more known for saving ships from torrential storms. Though considering a single flap of its wings is also attributed to creating long-lasting ones, one begins to wonder how benevolent that act really is.

    Let's just admit it, the HgSs plot was more or less geared toward Ho-Oh. They could have gone with a divergent plot that explored Lugia's, but no.
    I'm sorry if I was presenting this sort of thing as fact. But as for things said about Lugia by characters in the game, all I remembered was the above anecdote. Now, I didn't play SoulSilver, but for the purposes of this conversation, SS (and HG) is irrelevant beyond the title (as far as I'm concerned, anyway).

    And yeah, I always thought it was weird how HGSS's plot was more geared toward Ho-oh and SS players just got sorta turned around. "We're in the city with the tower honoring Ho-oh. Let's go meet Lugia instead, though!"

  9. #1344
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    Default Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Purim View Post
    I'm sorry if I was presenting this sort of thing as fact. But as for things said about Lugia by characters in the game, all I remembered was the above anecdote. Now, I didn't play SoulSilver, but for the purposes of this conversation, SS (and HG) is irrelevant beyond the title (as far as I'm concerned, anyway).

    And yeah, I always thought it was weird how HGSS's plot was more geared toward Ho-oh and SS players just got sorta turned around. "We're in the city with the tower honoring Ho-oh. Let's go meet Lugia instead, though!"
    To be fair, its only relevant if you're playing Heart Gold with Ho-Oh.

    So as far as RSE theme naming goes, they really don't have to make it thematic, though as evident by the last two releases, they seem to be going with more relevant theme names (even if Heart and Soul really only pertains to one bird).

    Lugia's plot is really left almost as vague as Mewtwo's origins. We know Mewtwo's a genetically altered Mew, but not why those experiments were done. We know Lugia has a relation to Ecruteak then moved to Whirl Islands, but nothing else was really said about that.

    Now that I think about it, there's really no grand explanation as to why Groudon and Kyogre fight other than as an illustration of an imagined struggle between land and sea, but then we don't know why Rayquaza has the power to stop the other two. Hopefully these games may answer that. DP at least did a good job trying to explain how Giratina's power was able to oppose both Palkia and Dialga.

  10. #1345
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    Default Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

    ^ Maybe they just possess a natural rivalry with each other very similar to Zangoose/Seviper who are also part of the same generation. Its like another version of Yin/Yang I guess, with Rayquaza being the balance.

    As for the names and Ho-oh having more relevance... I have no real answer for that. Would have been nice if Lugia's tower was restored and it was went into a bit more, though we did learn that it stopped a war and created Whirl Islands.

    People can't lie that the name HeartGold just fits though, and it was indeed built upon what was already there. Though like Purim said one must go into their own interpretation for SoulSilver. But like I said before, the names and themes of Heart/Soul usually are featured together alot, so even if one makes more since than the other, they both would likely appear together. Another thing, like I said before Johto as a whole seems pretty traditional and more spiritual than Kanto, so those names fit anyways.

    I just see them taking a more "natural" theme with the names as the Hoenn region is a pretty nature based region. Something simple to reflect this imo, like Magma/Aqua.

  11. #1346
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    Default Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

    You say that Heart and Soul don't make sense, but how does Passion and Honesty? They're your interpretations.

  12. #1347
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    Default Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

    ^Except the item descriptions for the RUBY mention passion and that for the SAPPHIRE meantions honesty.

  13. #1348
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    Default Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

    For all we know, it'll be NeoRuby and NeoSapphire. :P Which sounds kinda cool, but is kinda boring at the same time...

  14. #1349
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    Default Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by PkmnGreen View Post
    You say that Heart and Soul don't make sense, but how does Passion and Honesty? They're your interpretations.
    These are all everyone's interpretations. I was pointing out how, though my evidence may seem shakey, so does the evidence of people trying to connect Heart and Soul to Johto's games. Ho-oh has the ingame connections to Heart, and Ruby and Sapphire have ingame connections to Passion and Honesty, specifically.

  15. #1350
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    Default Re: Ruby and Sapphire Remake Discussion

    Passion, Honesty, Terra, Mere...make no sense whatsoever...
    Stop guessing names and leave the task to game freak
    Back to the remakes, don't you think that they should give us another Mew instead of Mewtwo?
    sonic10158 likes this.
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