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  1. #136
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    Default Re: Pokémon-amie: new bonding feature

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratelier View Post
    The point of IV's is that they are supposed to be dictated by luck. They are part of what makes individual Pokemon different from each other.
    And they would still be different from each other until the IV's are raised which would be a hard process thus they are still earned. The purpose for single player would remain intact and the only thing that IV's do for the metagame is sink your time, reward cheating and ultimately prevent people from playing the metagame which is fucking bullshit.
    Hear, hear! Well put. IV's, as they are detract from the game.

    IV's, in my opinion would be better if they were per-level caps on trained points in the various stats, that way, nurture and nature matter and play a better role together, effectively allowing Pokemon with different ceilings to perform different roles in combat.
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    Default Re: Pokémon-amie: new bonding feature

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior of Fire View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare View Post
    I still hoping that bonding with this feature can increase IV's we don't really need MORE ways to increase ev's. The minigame looks fun enough but I hope certain foods and playing methods can increase IV's

    If they make it hard enough it would be perfectly fair
    Increasing IVs is something that shouldn't be done, since those are the "Individual Values" of each specific Pokémon and are like their DNA (you know, in code form). Plus there's also the fact that Hidden Power's type and power is calculated by the Pokémon's IVs makes it a huge problem to do so.
    I'm gonna call bullshit on that.

    1. IV's is a fan term half of IV's are randomly generated kinda pokes a whole in the DNA thing

    2. They are recalculating the HP to add a new type anyways don't see the point

    3. IV's is an incredibly unfair system that encourages cheating it has it's purpose for single player but making it hard enough to raise them protects that. Playing casually is really unfair because someone will be more lucky. Playing with breeding is possible but people are better breeders then others or just cheat or RNG. The only way to get a fair match is through Battle sims
    1. IVs, combined with base stats and the Pokémon's nature, determine that Pokémon's stats before EVs are applied. Plus IVs apply to other things, such as Hidden Power (which I mentioned already and you completely ignored, by the way). Being able to raise IVs out of the blue after all these years of them being untouchable by honest players (breeders who breed legitly count as honest while those who take advantage of technology don't) throws out the true meaning of IVs and they should just be thrown out altogether if it happens and have Hidden Power be determined by the PID so it stays fixed instead of changing every time IVs are changed within your idea for raising IVs (which without the extra factors being involved wouldn't be a problem with me, but I take everything into consideration).

    2. I don't see how the new type has anything to do with HP recalculation at all, let alone IVs (since , and source please.

    3. And this point is the least credible of the two more valid points. The system works the way they intended to for those who do things properly (i.e. don't hack or RNG abuse), and again, changing it after its been in use for this long makes no sense for a complete change like this. Small changes over new game generations to the system will work better than a sudden change all at once if a system change is called for by Game Freak. Of course, I'm discounting that there was indeed one of these complete changes to the system between Gen II and Gen III, but that was easily pulled off due to the fact that there was no connectivity between those two gens while there will be this time around. With trying to get the most out of IVs legitly, it would be better to be able to view them and be able to try and get that Pokémon species again with better IVs.

    I don't really enjoy doing this, but all factors must be taken into account before something like this can be done to the full extent. Plus what happens if you end up getting a Pokémon with nearly perfect IVs (half 30, the other half 31 (31 being the max)), being able to raise that Pokémon's IVs would make it appear hacked by current hack-check standards, as well as what I've mentioned already.
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    Default Re: Pokémon-amie: new bonding feature

    IV's is an incredibly unfair system that encourages cheating
    Lol, wut? No.

    Maybe I'd have agreed with you many years ago when IVs were a hidden game mechanic. But Gamefreak have been giving the player various ways to understand and manipulate IVs for ages now, all through legitimate methods provided in-game i.e. the tell-tale phrase on your pokemon's info screen 'mischievous', 'capable of taking hits' etc, the Judge, and most importantly the power items in breeding. It's not 'unfair' just because you choose not to do it (or aren't very good at it - and trust me, it's not difficult to learn. I had it down in 2 weeks and I'm usually a dumbass at technical stuff). That's like saying I used a hasty Arcanine instead of serious one, so I must be 'cheating'. Just...no.

    Anyway, back in the world of logic :/ I do hope Pokemon-Amie doesn't give us a way of increasing/decreasing IVs, because as someone above said IVs are meant to be set when a pokemon is born, like its nature, its ability, its genetic makeup. IVs are an added little bonus to EVs; they either give your pokemon a head start or not. If you can change IVs throughout, don't they pretty much become EVs?

    I breed egg move pokes & DW females.

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    Default Re: Pokémon-amie: new bonding feature

    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior of Fire View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior of Fire View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare View Post
    I still hoping that bonding with this feature can increase IV's we don't really need MORE ways to increase ev's. The minigame looks fun enough but I hope certain foods and playing methods can increase IV's

    If they make it hard enough it would be perfectly fair
    Increasing IVs is something that shouldn't be done, since those are the "Individual Values" of each specific Pokémon and are like their DNA (you know, in code form). Plus there's also the fact that Hidden Power's type and power is calculated by the Pokémon's IVs makes it a huge problem to do so.
    I'm gonna call bullshit on that.

    1. IV's is a fan term half of IV's are randomly generated kinda pokes a whole in the DNA thing

    2. They are recalculating the HP to add a new type anyways don't see the point

    3. IV's is an incredibly unfair system that encourages cheating it has it's purpose for single player but making it hard enough to raise them protects that. Playing casually is really unfair because someone will be more lucky. Playing with breeding is possible but people are better breeders then others or just cheat or RNG. The only way to get a fair match is through Battle sims
    1. IVs, combined with base stats and the Pokémon's nature, determine that Pokémon's stats before EVs are applied. Plus IVs apply to other things, such as Hidden Power (which I mentioned already and you completely ignored, by the way). Being able to raise IVs out of the blue after all these years of them being untouchable by honest players (breeders who breed legitly count as honest while those who take advantage of technology don't) throws out the true meaning of IVs and they should just be thrown out altogether if it happens and have Hidden Power be determined by the PID so it stays fixed instead of changing every time IVs are changed within your idea for raising IVs (which without the extra factors being involved wouldn't be a problem with me, but I take everything into consideration).

    2. I don't see how the new type has anything to do with HP recalculation at all, let alone IVs (since , and source please.

    3. And this point is the least credible of the two more valid points. The system works the way they intended to for those who do things properly (i.e. don't hack or RNG abuse), and again, changing it after its been in use for this long makes no sense for a complete change like this. Small changes over new game generations to the system will work better than a sudden change all at once if a system change is called for by Game Freak. Of course, I'm discounting that there was indeed one of these complete changes to the system between Gen II and Gen III, but that was easily pulled off due to the fact that there was no connectivity between those two gens while there will be this time around. With trying to get the most out of IVs legitly, it would be better to be able to view them and be able to try and get that Pokémon species again with better IVs.

    I don't really enjoy doing this, but all factors must be taken into account before something like this can be done to the full extent. Plus what happens if you end up getting a Pokémon with nearly perfect IVs (half 30, the other half 31 (31 being the max)), being able to raise that Pokémon's IVs would make it appear hacked by current hack-check standards, as well as what I've mentioned already.
    wyvern obviously used hp as short for hidden power which means that he didn't ignore your point about hidden power and your second comeback is completely pointless, but still I agree that iv system shouldnt be changed, it is true that IVs make it difficult for casual players to stand a chance in the metagame but rather than getting rid of them they should introduce a ranking system so casual players get matched with each other and let the breeders/hackers battle among themselves.

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    Default Re: Pokémon-amie: new bonding feature

    @ontopic
    From my experience, I tried both normal Pokemon training and cheating (with PokeGen). There is no fair comparison between those two. On PokeGen, you just set whatever you want, even the rarest, most ridiculous parameters you want like ex. Smeargle with 255 EV's in Attack, without problem whatsoever. In reality, you would have to win battles with Smeargle, against enemies that have high attack stat, that's nearly-impossible. Moreover, some type of EV yielding pokemon are super scarce, for example if you wanted to get Speed EV's for a lvl 40-50 Pokemon, in B/W your only option was fishing for Basculin. Imagine if I wanted to have a high Speed Aerodactyl or Gliscor. You had to win the fights against those Basculin, which is a torture, and you will need a hell lot of potions. What if I wanted to have an EV trained Kingdra? Unless I had another console to play simultaneously and trade, it's not possible to get an EV trained Kingdra in the game. The obtainable ones are only those who you can catch in the wild, and those even though happen to show up only 5% of the time, are worthless because they have no EV training, just like any other pokemon from the bushes. So when you go to the Wi-Fi battles, and see a weather team user with Kingdra having 255 speed EV's and a helpful nature you can be almost sure that this guy cheated to get it. Worst part is that, even if you used Macho Brace and Pokerus, somebody who cheated will achieve better stats than you still, simply because getting EV's in the game comes only from winning battles, which becomes very hard in some cases. Unlike in the the program where all it needs is just typing whatever value you need. If PokeAmii could help with that, so the game wouldn't be actually attracting players to cheat, then I'm all for that.

    BTW this picture from PokeAmie is the cutest thing I have seen in Pokemon games ever:

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    Default Re: Pokémon-amie: new bonding feature

    Do we have to feed Litwick with our soul?
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    Default Re: Pokémon-amie: new bonding feature

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare View Post
    And they would still be different from each other until the IV's are raised which would be a hard process thus they are still earned. The purpose for single player would remain intact and the only thing that IV's do for the metagame is sink your time, reward cheating and ultimately prevent people from playing the metagame which is fucking bullshit.
    IVs are part of what make individual Pokemon different from each other, they have been a permanent fixture of each individual Pokemon for at least five generations. In real life, individuals may be born with a greater affinity for certain things than others -- e.g. somebody with longer legs (and all else the same) than another will be able to run faster, period.

    And ruining the metagame? That's just talking nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by LadySasaki View Post
    If you can change IVs throughout, don't they pretty much become EVs?
    This. This, this, this this this this this so much. Making IV's adjustable in any way basically turns them into a clone of EV's.
    Last edited by Stratelier; 22nd June 2013 at 12:16 PM.
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    Default Re: Pokémon-amie: new bonding feature

    Quote Originally Posted by brentoni View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior of Fire View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior of Fire View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyvernphlare View Post
    I still hoping that bonding with this feature can increase IV's we don't really need MORE ways to increase ev's. The minigame looks fun enough but I hope certain foods and playing methods can increase IV's

    If they make it hard enough it would be perfectly fair
    Increasing IVs is something that shouldn't be done, since those are the "Individual Values" of each specific Pokémon and are like their DNA (you know, in code form). Plus there's also the fact that Hidden Power's type and power is calculated by the Pokémon's IVs makes it a huge problem to do so.
    I'm gonna call bullshit on that.

    1. IV's is a fan term half of IV's are randomly generated kinda pokes a whole in the DNA thing

    2. They are recalculating the HP to add a new type anyways don't see the point

    3. IV's is an incredibly unfair system that encourages cheating it has it's purpose for single player but making it hard enough to raise them protects that. Playing casually is really unfair because someone will be more lucky. Playing with breeding is possible but people are better breeders then others or just cheat or RNG. The only way to get a fair match is through Battle sims
    1. IVs, combined with base stats and the Pokémon's nature, determine that Pokémon's stats before EVs are applied. Plus IVs apply to other things, such as Hidden Power (which I mentioned already and you completely ignored, by the way). Being able to raise IVs out of the blue after all these years of them being untouchable by honest players (breeders who breed legitly count as honest while those who take advantage of technology don't) throws out the true meaning of IVs and they should just be thrown out altogether if it happens and have Hidden Power be determined by the PID so it stays fixed instead of changing every time IVs are changed within your idea for raising IVs (which without the extra factors being involved wouldn't be a problem with me, but I take everything into consideration).

    2. I don't see how the new type has anything to do with HP recalculation at all, let alone IVs (since , and source please.

    3. And this point is the least credible of the two more valid points. The system works the way they intended to for those who do things properly (i.e. don't hack or RNG abuse), and again, changing it after its been in use for this long makes no sense for a complete change like this. Small changes over new game generations to the system will work better than a sudden change all at once if a system change is called for by Game Freak. Of course, I'm discounting that there was indeed one of these complete changes to the system between Gen II and Gen III, but that was easily pulled off due to the fact that there was no connectivity between those two gens while there will be this time around. With trying to get the most out of IVs legitly, it would be better to be able to view them and be able to try and get that Pokémon species again with better IVs.

    I don't really enjoy doing this, but all factors must be taken into account before something like this can be done to the full extent. Plus what happens if you end up getting a Pokémon with nearly perfect IVs (half 30, the other half 31 (31 being the max)), being able to raise that Pokémon's IVs would make it appear hacked by current hack-check standards, as well as what I've mentioned already.
    wyvern obviously used hp as short for hidden power which means that he didn't ignore your point about hidden power and your second comeback is completely pointless, but still I agree that iv system shouldnt be changed, it is true that IVs make it difficult for casual players to stand a chance in the metagame but rather than getting rid of them they should introduce a ranking system so casual players get matched with each other and let the breeders/hackers battle among themselves.
    So the "HP" part was a mistake on my part. Well, that's the problem with two things being abbreviated the same way (honestly, I think it should be abbreviated as HnPr to separate it from hit points so there's no confusion). Confusion is pretty much ensured. And I have no idea what happened to the second part in the end, but as you said, the abbreviation confusion rendered that point null and void.

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    Default Re: Pokémon-amie: new bonding feature

    So when you go to the Wi-Fi battles, and see a weather team user with Kingdra having 255 speed EV's and a helpful nature you can be almost sure that this guy cheated to get it.
    You can't be sure of that at all. A lot of trainers work bloody hard and pour hours of effort into breeding certain IVs, natures and abilities onto their teams, and then training them by hand for EVs, myself included.

    Again with the attitude of 'this person uses IVs to their advantage therefore they must be a cheater'. No. Using IVs and natures to your advantage is simply learning how the game works and therefore bettering yourself and your chances of winning. You are no more cheating for using helpful IVs/natures than you are for learning type advantages - the latter just takes less time.

    Please do not assume that just because someone has an IV bred, EV trained pokemon with a helpful nature that they cheated to get it. /offtopicrant

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    Default Re: Pokémon-amie: new bonding feature

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinity Edge View Post
    @ontopic
    From my experience, I tried both normal Pokemon training and cheating (with PokeGen). There is no fair comparison between those two. On PokeGen, you just set whatever you want, even the rarest, most ridiculous parameters you want like ex. Smeargle with 255 EV's in Attack, without problem whatsoever. In reality, you would have to win battles with Smeargle, against enemies that have high attack stat, that's nearly-impossible. Moreover, some type of EV yielding pokemon are super scarce, for example if you wanted to get Speed EV's for a lvl 40-50 Pokemon, in B/W your only option was fishing for Basculin. Imagine if I wanted to have a high Speed Aerodactyl or Gliscor. You had to win the fights against those Basculin, which is a torture, and you will need a hell lot of potions. What if I wanted to have an EV trained Kingdra? Unless I had another console to play simultaneously and trade, it's not possible to get an EV trained Kingdra in the game. The obtainable ones are only those who you can catch in the wild, and those even though happen to show up only 5% of the time, are worthless because they have no EV training, just like any other pokemon from the bushes. So when you go to the Wi-Fi battles, and see a weather team user with Kingdra having 255 speed EV's and a helpful nature you can be almost sure that this guy cheated to get it. Worst part is that, even if you used Macho Brace and Pokerus, somebody who cheated will achieve better stats than you still, simply because getting EV's in the game comes only from winning battles, which becomes very hard in some cases. Unlike in the the program where all it needs is just typing whatever value you need. If PokeAmii could help with that, so the game wouldn't be actually attracting players to cheat, then I'm all for that.
    Actually you can have a pretty well EV trained Kingdra or whatever other Pokémon very easily without cheating... but only if you train them post-game, however, since you're speaking about Wi-fi battles (which are unrelated to the main story) that should not pose any problem. ALL the Pokémon in my current party are perfectly EV trained (and most of them have at least near perfect S.peed and/or Offensive IV's). It took me so long, but in the end it paid great and I feel happy with my Pokémon team. And I don't even know how to cheat, I did it all fairly (cue to the 50 Gibles and 30 Abras in my PC). It's hard as hell, but impossible? Not at all.


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    Default Re: Pokémon-amie: new bonding feature

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryanz View Post
    Do we have to feed Litwick with our soul?
    if you've battled with shedinja, litwik will have to starve.

    I am starting to wonder if some parts of pokemon amie might be used for other minigames, I had this idea that since they said a major theme will be beauty and Paris is known for fashion, maybe ther will be pokemon modelling as a minigame. it could use the copying minigame from amie to pose your pokemon, then the pics could go on the billboard/screen thing in lumiouse.

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    Default Re: Pokémon-amie: new bonding feature

    Quote Originally Posted by VeggiePopper View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinity Edge View Post
    @ontopic
    From my experience, I tried both normal Pokemon training and cheating (with PokeGen). There is no fair comparison between those two. On PokeGen, you just set whatever you want, even the rarest, most ridiculous parameters you want like ex. Smeargle with 255 EV's in Attack, without problem whatsoever. In reality, you would have to win battles with Smeargle, against enemies that have high attack stat, that's nearly-impossible. Moreover, some type of EV yielding pokemon are super scarce, for example if you wanted to get Speed EV's for a lvl 40-50 Pokemon, in B/W your only option was fishing for Basculin. Imagine if I wanted to have a high Speed Aerodactyl or Gliscor. You had to win the fights against those Basculin, which is a torture, and you will need a hell lot of potions. What if I wanted to have an EV trained Kingdra? Unless I had another console to play simultaneously and trade, it's not possible to get an EV trained Kingdra in the game. The obtainable ones are only those who you can catch in the wild, and those even though happen to show up only 5% of the time, are worthless because they have no EV training, just like any other pokemon from the bushes. So when you go to the Wi-Fi battles, and see a weather team user with Kingdra having 255 speed EV's and a helpful nature you can be almost sure that this guy cheated to get it. Worst part is that, even if you used Macho Brace and Pokerus, somebody who cheated will achieve better stats than you still, simply because getting EV's in the game comes only from winning battles, which becomes very hard in some cases. Unlike in the the program where all it needs is just typing whatever value you need. If PokeAmii could help with that, so the game wouldn't be actually attracting players to cheat, then I'm all for that.
    Actually you can have a pretty well EV trained Kingdra or whatever other Pokémon very easily without cheating... but only if you train them post-game, however, since you're speaking about Wi-fi battles (which are unrelated to the main story) that should not pose any problem. ALL the Pokémon in my current party are perfectly EV trained (and most of them have at least near perfect S.peed and/or Offensive IV's). It took me so long, but in the end it paid great and I feel happy with my Pokémon team. And I don't even know how to cheat, I did it all fairly (cue to the 50 Gibles and 30 Abras in my PC). It's hard as hell, but impossible? Not at all.
    I mean that it's hard since the Pokemon's level is capped at 50, and so are the stats. The value you reached at 50 won't change, even if you attained all the needed EV's after that level. Same goes for the levels pokemon had, when you caught it. A successful EV training for Wi-Fi battles will be only from lvl 1 ~ 50, so you cannot perform it on a lvl 55 Kingdra that you caught in the wild, because the effort Values it had on lvl50 are recorded and you cannot EV increase it's stats retroactively.

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    Default Re: Pokémon-amie: new bonding feature

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinity Edge View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VeggiePopper View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinity Edge View Post
    @ontopic
    From my experience, I tried both normal Pokemon training and cheating (with PokeGen). There is no fair comparison between those two. On PokeGen, you just set whatever you want, even the rarest, most ridiculous parameters you want like ex. Smeargle with 255 EV's in Attack, without problem whatsoever. In reality, you would have to win battles with Smeargle, against enemies that have high attack stat, that's nearly-impossible. Moreover, some type of EV yielding pokemon are super scarce, for example if you wanted to get Speed EV's for a lvl 40-50 Pokemon, in B/W your only option was fishing for Basculin. Imagine if I wanted to have a high Speed Aerodactyl or Gliscor. You had to win the fights against those Basculin, which is a torture, and you will need a hell lot of potions. What if I wanted to have an EV trained Kingdra? Unless I had another console to play simultaneously and trade, it's not possible to get an EV trained Kingdra in the game. The obtainable ones are only those who you can catch in the wild, and those even though happen to show up only 5% of the time, are worthless because they have no EV training, just like any other pokemon from the bushes. So when you go to the Wi-Fi battles, and see a weather team user with Kingdra having 255 speed EV's and a helpful nature you can be almost sure that this guy cheated to get it. Worst part is that, even if you used Macho Brace and Pokerus, somebody who cheated will achieve better stats than you still, simply because getting EV's in the game comes only from winning battles, which becomes very hard in some cases. Unlike in the the program where all it needs is just typing whatever value you need. If PokeAmii could help with that, so the game wouldn't be actually attracting players to cheat, then I'm all for that.
    Actually you can have a pretty well EV trained Kingdra or whatever other Pokémon very easily without cheating... but only if you train them post-game, however, since you're speaking about Wi-fi battles (which are unrelated to the main story) that should not pose any problem. ALL the Pokémon in my current party are perfectly EV trained (and most of them have at least near perfect S.peed and/or Offensive IV's). It took me so long, but in the end it paid great and I feel happy with my Pokémon team. And I don't even know how to cheat, I did it all fairly (cue to the 50 Gibles and 30 Abras in my PC). It's hard as hell, but impossible? Not at all.
    I mean that it's hard since the Pokemon's level is capped at 50, and so are the stats. The value you reached at 50 won't change, even if you attained all the needed EV's after that level. Same goes for the levels pokemon had, when you caught it. A successful EV training for Wi-Fi battles will be only from lvl 1 ~ 50, so you cannot perform it on a lvl 55 Kingdra that you caught in the wild, because the effort Values it had on lvl50 are recorded and you cannot EV increase it's stats retroactively.
    I don't know where you're getting your info, but I've read a dozen EV training guides and none of them mention this theory of a pokemon's values being recorded and set in stone at level 50 and this being how WIFI battle stats are worked out. Can you give a source? Because always being capped at whatever stats your pokemon had when it was level 50 sounds absurd. Half the fun of EV training is that you can do it to any pokemon at any time, and even erase and start over if you do it wrong.

    The way I understand it is this: when you wifi battle your pokemon's level along with everything else in its stats are simply divided using a mathematical equation, rounded down, and your stat gains for EVs are halved. I don't tend to like Smogon much, but they do have a great article explaining it. Scroll down to EVing for level 50:

    5th Generation EV Training Guide (B/W) - Smogon University

    And just to stay on topic, if Smash show no other new gameplay footage in the next few weeks, I wish they'd show some more pokemon getting the Amie treatment. Even if it's not a hint about new evos or prevos we could expect, it's just plain fun to watch all the different cute reactions :D (also in the pokemon amie promotional pic I noticed a Diglett with a ball of string - can you maybe play with your pokemon using toys? That'd be amazing!!)
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    Default Re: Pokémon-amie: new bonding feature

    Just to try and get this back on topic, even though they have shown amie zoom in on large pokemons face for certain functions, does anyone think having them split over both screens by default could be a problem.

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    Default Re: Pokémon-amie: new bonding feature

    do you think you can make strong your pokemon team with this "pokemon amie"??
    so would be possible make any pokemon stronger???.... hmmm i don't think so...
    i don't know i don't like it at all....

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