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  1. #376
    Serperior rules us all Catilena1890's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    The OD doesn't necessarily need to be Unique in order to be the master of it's trio/best fecking dragon in Unova. There is NOTHING unique about Rayquaza, not even it's ability because of Cloud 9, yet it is the only thing that can shut up Groudon and Kyogre and keep their tantrum from destroying Hoenn.

    If GF DOESN'T throw a cop-out on us and makes the OD an actual dragon type, I think it SHOULD stay a dragon type and nothing else, in order to show that it is complete. If they WANTED to make it unique, give it an ability that can give STAB to Ice, Fire, and Electric attacks, or a move that is a souped-up version of Tri-Attack.

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    Registered User Raichuu's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    Hey nice drawing you are awsome but yeah I agree to Catelina1890
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    Serperior rules us all Catilena1890's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    Why can no one ever spell my name right? ;3;

    After reading my last giant post, one of my friends pointed out something to me. Lemmie beat you to the punch here.

    If a Grass/Ice/Dragon type got hit by a fire attack, someone pointed out that it could still be super-effective because dragon and ice/grass could cancle each other out, and the remaining type would get the super-effective hit. My counter is then: What is the point of adding the other two types?

    I STILL don't think we'll see any sign of the OD until generation 7 for several reasons, most relating to patterns GF has set:

    By the time we get to Generation 6, we will be really SICK of Unova and anything involving it. They would be slapping us in the face if GF were to suddenly go "HURRDURR UR STILL IN N3W Y0RK! HERE HAVE ANOTHER DR4G0N HURR!".

    Again, by the time we get to generation 6, we'll most likely be yearning for a reunion with Sinnoh, just like we wanted to go back to Kanto in Generation 3, Johto in Generation 4, and now Hoenn in Generation 5 *though the last is still unresolved*. When we get that reunion, we'll get a revamped Team Galactic plot with all three creation trio members playing a bigger role and Arceus now getting a role itself, since it was revealed AFTER D/P/P came out.

    GF clearly enjoys making us suffer from impatience, and then trolling us with new pokemon. Don't you DARE tell me that you didn't think Alomomola was going to be an evolution of Luvdisc before they told us G5 would have no relations to the other 4 generations.

    The OD is too important to Unova's story to be "Lugia"ed *introducing a master one generation later than it's trio with minor significance to the story*, and a thousand times more important to be "Regigigas"ed *introducing a master to a trio in a later generation for no real reason other than to give the trio a master*. I think instead, it will be more like Arceus and shown to us near the end of Generation 5, but it won't have any REAL significance until later.

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    Has converted to Helixism Miles101's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    The OD will probably never be revealed. Hell, it probably won't even be designed.
    Why?
    It's a pure story element. A made-up thing for BWBW2. Black/White Kyurem is half of the OD, but it won't go on beyond that. Expecting the Original Dragon to actually appear is just naive.

    Of course, Game Freak might surprise us, but it is very unlikely.

  5. #380
    Serperior rules us all Catilena1890's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    No, absolutely not. Game Freak is lazy and uncreative, but they do NOT do things halfway. They made a big deal out of OD in Black and White, then they took us halfway to the OD in Black 2 and White 2, and now they are going to have to finish this story at some point. Maybe not in THIS generation, or even the next, but they have written themselves into a corner on this. They are obligated to write themselves out of it now, even if it is with a Deux Ex Machina.

  6. #381
    Your resident cynic. Wishmaker Jirachi's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    @Catilena1890, I think Mew would like a word with you and Arceus about that.

    In other words: Game Freak leaves certain things to the imagination. What I wanted to point out with that example I just posted is mainly about the fact that we don't know who's the true creator, whether Arceus is the one who started it all (given a few factors like his in-game power/base stat total) or whether Mew really was the father of all Pokémon (as is constantly hinted at during RBY/FRLG).

    And, of course, why Mew still can't learn Sketch, and a whole heap of other signature moves. Granted, that's for gameplay reasons, but still, would it hurt Mew to have learned a little something unique of his own? Almost every other Legendary has something they can call their own, and I'll give you an example from each Generation- Lugia & Aeroblast, Mewtwo & Psystrike (after four generations without one!), Groudon & Drought (no longer exclusive but best known for it), Arceus & Judgement (the only real thing that suggests it being the supreme authority ingame IMO), Kyurem & Glaciate, Ice Burn and Freeze Shock.

    ...in hindsight I probably should have used the Event Legendaries. Not going to bother though.
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  7. #382
    (!) Let's battle! Fair Verona's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    I don't see the OD appearing any time soon. Maybe if they do gen 5 remakes (I do not want to think of that though. That is too far into the future. Ignore this part. I do not want this debate at all.) Or maybe if they do a region connected to Unova, but I can also see it being bypassed without a second thought.


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  8. #383
    Registered User voicerocker's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    Quote Originally Posted by Catilena1890 View Post
    Game Freak is lazy and uncreative
    Uncreative? They only managed to create Nintendo's second biggest franchise, which is still very popular today after 17 years. If they were lazy and uncreative, Pokemon would have long been forgotten.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catilena1890 View Post
    They made a big deal out of OD in Black and White
    No, the fandom did. We all knew Genesect was the last Pokemon in the Pokedex for Gen 5.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catilena1890 View Post
    then they took us halfway to the OD in Black 2 and White 2
    Not really. Kyurem and Reshiram/Zekrom don't truly fuse. Kyurem absorbs them and remains the dominate existence, which is why the fused Pokemon remains Kyurem and Reshiram/Zekrom don't gain any experience from battles that White/Black Kyurem win.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catilena1890 View Post
    and now they are going to have to finish this story at some point.
    The story is probably finished. There won't be another Gen 5 game on the DS this year, and chances are, the DS is pretty much done when B2W2 are released internationally. 2013 to my knowledge has no DS games lined up to be released, so Unova is more than likely done. Besides that, we already know everything about the OD. The only thing left is make it obtainable, which won't add anything. We know its origin and why it no longer exists (if it ever really did). What else story-wise could they add?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catilena1890 View Post
    Maybe not in THIS generation, or even the next, but they have written themselves into a corner on this.
    No, the fans just refuse to accept that making the OD an obtainable Pokemon was probably never planned. They thought they could predict what Game Freak was going to do, but when it didn't happen, it was Game Freak who messed up, not the incorrect fans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catilena1890 View Post
    They are obligated to write themselves out of it now
    They have. Kyurem isn't the OD. We know everything about the OD already, there's nothing left. Why must the OD be obtainable in order for the Tao trio story to be complete?
    "Believe in yourself and create your own destiny. Don't fear failure." - Only Toonami

  9. #384
    Monster Professor Dr. Mecha's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    Quote Originally Posted by voicerocker View Post
    They have. Kyurem isn't the OD. We know everything about the OD already, there's nothing left. Why must the OD be obtainable in order for the Tao trio story to be complete?
    Curiosity, we never know what it looked like; and the fact that Mew was never ment to be obtainable until the VERY LAST MINUTE in the original development of Pocket Monsters Version Red/Green.

    This is what we do know:
    Kyurem was what's left of the Original Dragon, an empty shell in which it's conscience left behind.
    Zekrom and Reshiram where Split Conscience of the Original Dragon which took a form of their own.
    Kyurem can DEVOUR (not fused with) Zekrom or Reshiram with a key item.
    God Stone in both Pokémon version Black/White and Pokémon version Black2/White2 were in the game as a physical key item, but have no use what so ever.

    This is what we guess:
    Kyurem may devour both at the same time, either to have an ultimate form or evolve into a whole new species of Pokémon; It may not become the original dragon spoken in Unova's myths.
    The OD/Ultimate Kyurem might have the same BST as Arceus.
    The GodStone could either be an Key item to help Kyurem reach its ultimate form, or a status form of Kyurem like with Reshiram and Zekrom.
    Last edited by Dr. Mecha; 22nd September 2012 at 01:40 PM.
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  10. #385
    Registered User voicerocker's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Mecha View Post
    Curiosity, we never know what it looked like; and the fact that Mew was never ment to be obtainable until the VERY LAST MINUTE in the original development of Pocket Monsters Version Red/Green.
    Just because we don't know what it looked like doesn't mean we'll definitely see it.

    Mew was supposed to be a joke character that was added last minute and wasn't officially approved to be added to the game. The only way to encounter Mew was by getting it directly from Nintendo or the glitch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Mecha View Post
    This is what we do know:
    Kyurem was what's left of the Original Dragon, an empty shell in which it's conscience left behind.

    Zekrom and Reshiram where Split Conscience of the Original Dragon which took a form of their own.
    Kyurem isn't literally the shell of the dragon. Though I do believe it represents the emptyness left behind. I think Kyurem was described as being "created" when when the OD split, which mean Kyurem isn't the OD.

    I don't believe Kyurem is mindless though. Though it is a different universe, the Kyurem/Keldeo movie (to my knowledge) doesn't depict Kyurem as a mindless monster, as it has the ability to speak. I know the anime is free to adjust things for entertainment purposes, but they have to keep important details intact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Mecha View Post
    God Stone in both Pokémon version Black/White and Pokémon version Black2/White2 were in the game as a physical key item, but have no use what so ever.
    It was also removed from the English version games, which wouldn't have happened if they were planning on using it. From everything I've read about the God Stone, it has no function programmed for it at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Mecha View Post
    This is what we guess:
    Kyurem may devour both at the same time, either to have an ultimate form or evolve into a whole new species of Pokémon; It may not become the original dragon spoken in Unova's myths.
    I've read the concept of Wuji being described as "Without limit" and "Without ultimate", which would mean that there shouldn't be a "Perfect Kyurem" as it is meant to not be perfect. Nor should it be able to evolve being a Legendary Pokemon. And personally, I feel that an "Ultimate Forme" would make Black and White Kyurem rather pointless after having them featured in their own dual sequel. And sense the Kyurem "fusion" can be undone, that hints towards it not returning to a former existence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Mecha View Post
    The OD/Ultimate Kyurem might have the same BST as Arceus.
    Which might be another reason we won't see it. It wouldn't make sense that there would be a Pokemon with equal stats or even higher stats than the one who created the Pokemon universe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Mecha View Post
    The GodStone could either be an Key item to help Kyurem reach its ultimate form, or a status form of Kyurem like with Reshiram and Zekrom.
    Like I said earlier, there isn't any other than its sprite programmed into the game. It doesn't have any functions, and with it being removed entirely from some versions of the games, its importance doesn't seem to be that great.
    "Believe in yourself and create your own destiny. Don't fear failure." - Only Toonami

  11. #386
    Monster Professor Dr. Mecha's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    Quote Originally Posted by voicerocker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Mecha View Post
    The OD/Ultimate Kyurem might have the same BST as Arceus.
    Which might be another reason we won't see it. It wouldn't make sense that there would be a Pokemon with equal stats or even higher stats than the one who created the Pokemon universe.
    I never said it would be just as powerful though. Even if it did have the same BST as Arceus, the latter have much better advantage: It can change type depending on what plate it held, and it's stat is balanced across the board. The OD might have higher attack stats than the god of Pokémon, but then it'll have lesser speed and defense as well.
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    Registered User El_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    Quote Originally Posted by Miles101 View Post
    The OD will probably never be revealed. Hell, it probably won't even be designed.
    Why?
    It's a pure story element. A made-up thing for BWBW2. Black/White Kyurem is half of the OD, but it won't go on beyond that. Expecting the Original Dragon to actually appear is just naive.

    Of course, Game Freak might surprise us, but it is very unlikely.
    lol Wut? The Original Dragon's story existed since the first B/W games, before BW2 were introduced. You think that they haven't designed a simple fusion of 3 existing dragons when they have likely designed 100s of Pokemon that we still haven't seen? I wonder just who is more naive here.

    B/W Kyurem honestly constitute more than just half, to be more accurate its actually 2/3'rds of the OD, since its impossible to have B/W Kyurem existing at the same time. So all it takes is one more Dragon.

    At this point, it likely will appear in Gen 6 in a Regigigas like fashion, though a little more fleshed out. I'm thinking an event which feature Hilda/Hilbert in a similar fashion as N. They would be battled, relinquish their Dragon, then we would fuse it with either B/W Kyurem.

    As for it matching Arceus, I fail to see why thats a problem at all. Arceus only represents one type of a God, Taiji/Tao is God in a different belief system, so there is no problem.

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    Has converted to Helixism Miles101's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    BWBW2 = Black, White, Black 2, and White 2

    I didn't say it couldn't happen. I'm saying that it's very unlikely that GameFreak will release the OD and we shouldn't get our hopes up.

  14. #389
    Lurker Zistal's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    Quote Originally Posted by El_ View Post
    As for it matching Arceus, I fail to see why thats a problem at all. Arceus only represents one type of a God, Taiji/Tao is God in a different belief system, so there is no problem.
    The problem is that while Taiji/Tao serves as the inspiration for the Unova mascots, none of them actually hold sway over those concepts in-universe; they're just regional legendaries who can zap, burn, and freeze things on a large scale, no better than the likes of Lugia and Ho-Oh. Having statistical power on-par with the likes of Arceus who is a cosmic god seemingly capable of obliterating them with a single thought in a real fight, is arbitrary power creep at its finest.

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    Registered User El_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    Quote Originally Posted by Zistal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by El_ View Post
    As for it matching Arceus, I fail to see why thats a problem at all. Arceus only represents one type of a God, Taiji/Tao is God in a different belief system, so there is no problem.
    The problem is that while Taiji/Tao serves as the inspiration for the Unova mascots, none of them actually hold sway over those concepts in-universe; they're just regional legendaries who can zap, burn, and freeze things on a large scale, no better than the likes of Lugia and Ho-Oh. Having statistical power on-par with the likes of Arceus who is a cosmic god seemingly capable of obliterating them with a single thought in a real fight, is arbitrary power creep at its finest.
    True, but couldn't one say the same for Lugia/Ho-oh having the same BST as Dialga/Palkia/Giratina? I don't think that BST is "overall" important when it comes to in-universe feats. It is important, but not all important.

    Who knows though, maybe the Sinnoh legends aren't the Gods we make them out to be, or at least as powerful as we think.

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